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Why the 70's & 80's R clearly superior to the 90's &


JoeinAR
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As Lenny Bersntein once put it -- on one of his song cycles -- "I Hate Music!" LOL

Chischester Psalms... I heard it the first time in 1990, right after Bernstein's passing. Never catch it live, though. My brother sung it a few years ago, but the son of my mother (hey, I can't isnult my mother) forgot to tell me...

Such a great choral piece...

Well, if you're looking for something, pm me, and we can see if i can help you.

:music: Toto: Mindfieds

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yes Luke, I was wrong about that, sad that JP didn't get nominated, when SL, a lesser work did.

You never cease to surprise me with your opinions, Joe.

don't think I am the only one here who thinks JP is better than Schindler's List.

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As Lenny Bersntein once put it -- on one of his song cycles -- "I Hate Music!"  LOL  

Chischester Psalms... I heard it the first time in 1990, right after Bernstein's passing. Never catch it live, though. My brother sung it a few years ago, but the son of my mother (hey, I can't isnult my mother) forgot to tell me...  

Such a great choral piece...

Well, if you're looking for something, pm me, and we can see if i can help you.

:angry: Toto: Mindfieds

I've seen it live, for free, and I didn't even tell you the concert was going to be held.

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Of course we'd all like to think that Schindler's List won because of its simple brilliance, but my bet is that, as usual, the score was only as successfull as the movie it accompanied.

Which explains why Williams never won an Academy Award after that again.

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Now, many times, this boards ain't the right place. There are many serious collectors that aren't interested in being around here -- one can only wonder why...

There are Williams fans more snobbist then Alexcremers?

Who are these people?

no its not snobbery. its maturity; i've found this board has alot of immature sentiments. some people have continually proclaimed williams to be infallible when it is not the case; even williams himself does not think every single note he writes is perfect. its this single minded-bias i think that turned some people away fromt his board. i know someone who worked at joann kane copying place. she is a williams fan having done some inputting of the scores, but she is not on this board because she read some forums and found it quite boring, the whole williams is a god and no one else can compare attitude. sorry, thought i'd be the messenger. dont shoot me:p.

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I personally found the Schindler's List score, like the fim itself, pat and predictable. I also thought it was too much and was too heavily laid

into the film. I was also put off by the fact the film and the score were instantly deemed beyond criticism somehow. Then and now, I much prefer

the Jurassic Park score, even though it's one of the few components of the film that actually works.

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There are Williams fans more snobbist then Alexcremers?

no its not snobbery. its maturity

Thanks, mate!

I personally found the Schindler's List score, like the fim itself, pat and predictable. I also thought it was too much and was too heavily laid

into the film. I was also put off by the fact the film and the score were instantly deemed beyond criticism somehow. Then and now, I much prefer  

the Jurassic Park score, even though it's one of the few components of the film that actually works.

Wow, that's two Spielberg films you dragged through the mud in one post! :angry: You're going to be very popular around here!

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As Lenny Bersntein once put it -- on one of his song cycles -- "I Hate Music!"  LOL  

Chischester Psalms... I heard it the first time in 1990, right after Bernstein's passing. Never catch it live, though. My brother sung it a few years ago, but the son of my mother (hey, I can't isnult my mother) forgot to tell me...  

Such a great choral piece...

Well, if you're looking for something, pm me, and we can see if i can help you.

:wave: Toto: Mindfieds

I've seen it live, for free, and I didn't even tell you the concert was going to be held.

Well, I won't insult your mother either, as she's a lovelly lady, but I'll sure kick your ass next time I meet you :angry:

:music: Williams: Jaws

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Carlaaaaaaaaaa, Miguel likes to see naked ladies on the Internet...

:music:

I love Jurassic Park, but I really fail to see how is it superior to Schindler's List.

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Beware the next envelope I get you... it may be something else besides CD... like a poison snake :)

And you can't iamgine waht I'll do to you one day, when you get married...

:music: The Ludlows arrangement

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This is really going nowhere. Jurassic Park and SL are both GREAT scores, yet very different in every regard.

"JP is better!", "No way, SL is better!", "Stupid! JP is better!", ... , ...

What ever happened to personal taste?

Oh, and just for the record: Schindler's List is better! :music:

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They're both great, but Schindler's List is on a league of its own. All the tracks are haunting. I remember the first time I listened to it, I had to recoil in silence. The music just hit me.

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This is really going nowhere. Jurassic Park and SL are both GREAT scores, yet very different in every regard.

"JP is better!", "No way, SL is better!", "Stupid! JP is better!", ... , ...

What ever happened to personal taste?  

Oh, and just for the record: Schindler's List is better! :music:

What happened to discourse? What happened to people actually backing up their opinions, providing well thought-out arguments explaining why they may hold a particular position?

Ted

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I don't have a problem with people thinking Williams is the best. I enjoy all of his music compared to other composers. To me it all boils down to a matter of taste.

I'm somewhat glad I'm not a musical scholar because I have a feeling I wouldn't be able to enjoy film music as much as do now. I would probably spend my time nitpicking every little thing I could.

I'm not afraid to admit I'm ignorant when it comes to music overall. I love film music more than any other style and if being narrow minded about Williams is a tag I carry that's fine with me because it's my opinion and in the end all that matters to me is what makes me happy.

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They're both great, but Schindler's List is on a league of its own. All the tracks are haunting. I remember the first time I listened to it, I had to recoil in silence. The music just hit me.

I'm not trained in music appreciation and tend to evaluate it chiefly on an emotional basis. SL just left me cold. I didn't care about the film and didn't

even see it until it hit video shelves. I did pick up the soundtrack to see if it would grow on me. It didn't. If anything the scraping violins

just got on my nerves. I just found JP far more varied and engaging, especially when judged as a stand-alone listening experience.

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Well, I can't blame you :music: Apples and oranges, I guess.

I do love Jurassic Park and think the action scoring of the last 20 minutes is nothing short of staggering, yet it is hardly mentioned has a great example of Williams' skills as an action composer.

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I like Spielberg a great deal. He's the closest filmmaker we have to Hitchcock now. I'm just not fond of his lazier directorial efforts or his growing tendency towards false sentimentality.

If people studied his "false sentimentality" more closely, many would realize that much of Spielberg's work isn't quite happy-go-lucky. The only falsely sentimental Spielberg film is Hook.

I expected more from JP considering Jaws. Color Purple and  A.I. were both ruined by a heavy dose of shmaltz.

You can argue that for The Color Purple, though I might disagree, but A.I. is much deeper than its misunderstood schmaltzy ending. Many viewers think they know Spielberg and his tendencies, therefore have judged A.I. based on previous "knowledge" of his work. It's a shame, really, because A.I. is one of his most intriguing, disturbing, thought-provoking, and all around best films. He does in fact try to provoke a reaction, but he also is interested in why the spectator has the reaction he or she does.

Considering the greatness of Jaws, CE3K, Raiders and E.T., most of his output can only be seen as disappointing.  Only Empire of the Sun in 1987 measures up to his early works and shows him firing on all cylindars.
I beg to differ. Say what you will about Schindler's List, but it is incredibly subtle and nuanced. There are some scenes of sentimentality near the end, but none of them are false. The beauty of the film is that we are never brought into the mind of Schindler. We wonder about him, what he's thinking, why he does what he does. I could go on, but I will end my comments of Schindler's List saying that it is one of the most beautiful pieces of cinema I have seen.

Saving Private Ryan is another one of Spielberg's sadly misunderstood films in my estimation. Once again, many viewers think they know Spielberg and his ways and will see what they want to see. What I saw, however, is restrained, mature film whose poetry was in its images. It didn't force viewers to feel a certain way about something, and he didn't guide the viewer emotionally through each scene or even the film's themes. He lets the viewer do his or her own reflection, and he is bold enough to let the images speak for themselves. Like your friend Hitchcock, structurally, there are some "predictable" elements, such as the bookened cemetery scenes. But the beauty of Spielberg is what he does within those storytelling conventions that is much deeper than most people care to see. The film studies the bonds between men who have become violent, breaks down the socialized idea of masculinity, and puts the viewer in touch with the cold feeling of what it is like to take another's life; another major theme in Hitchcock. In short, Saving Private Ryan is a film that warrants much closer study than it has received. Trust me.

Another recent masterpiece of Spielberg's, other than A.I, is Minority Report, which is on par with Raiders of the Lost Ark as a genre film that blends and honors barious cinematic genres. It's a celebration of storytelling with understated emotion, intelligence, and philosophy. The fact that it can hit on so many ideas and themes for the viewer to ruminate upon while also effortlessly telling a fascinating and incredibly entertaining story is a major accomplishment. Sublime is one word that would describe it.

Spielberg's body of work may contain some moments of "false sentimentality," as you claim, but I think that Spielberg is an artist that is sadly misrepresented and misunderstood because of the icon he has become. Many people have pigeon-holed him with this image, which is thus how his work has been positioned. A close analysis and examination of his work reveals, to me at least, that there is much more to his films than is often attributed.

Ted

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That's right, Ted. Believe it or not but I'm very allergic to false sentiment but the only scene in SL that comes close to this description is the "I could've done more" scene.

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That's right, Ted. Believe it or not but I'm very allergic to false sentiment but the only scene in SL that comes close to this description is the "I could've done more" scene.

and that one scene nearly undermines the entire film. But it doesn't affect the score at all.

I think the score for SL is a marvelous work, strong and powerful, but I think that Jurassic Park is an amazing work with more powerful themes. Of course its personal preference. It always is.

I don't have any musical training, or understanding. MY MUSICAL PREFERENCE, is based entirely on how I respond to music emotionally, across many levels of emotions. To me Jurassic Park brings out hopes and desires, creatures great and small, that mankind really would want to see.

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Another recent masterpiece of Spielberg's, other than A.I, is Minority Report, which is on par with Raiders of the Lost Ark as a genre film that blends and honors barious cinematic genres. It's a celebration of storytelling with understated emotion, intelligence, and philosophy. The fact that it can hit on so many ideas and themes for the viewer to ruminate upon while also effortlessly telling a fascinating and incredibly entertaining story is a major accomplishment. Sublime is one word that would describe it.

A.I. was a near, but-definite, miss. It was frustrating to watch because it came so close ... before it collapsed into itself. It could have been one of his best -- an intelligent, thought - provoking, well-acted story and stunningly well told. Minority Report I haven't seen. I just cannot stomach Tom Cruise or anything he stands for. I doubt it aproaches the simple brilliance of Raiders though, which I think it one of the most perfectly-realized films ever made.

Spielberg's body of work may contain some moments of "false sentimentality," as you claim, but I think that Spielberg is an artist that is sadly misrepresented and misunderstood because of the icon he has become. Many people have pigeon-holed him with this image, which is thus how his work has been positioned. A close analysis and examination of his work reveals, to me at least, that there is much more to his films than is often attributed.

It's indeed frustrating when his propensity for sentimentality can capsize an otherwise-worthy film. I'm not sure if he is pigeon-holed. The fact is that we know he's an incredibly gifted storyteller and filmmaker and I don't think it's wrong to expect more from more from him and to be able to criticise him when he falls short. The same with Williams, although I think he's far more consistent and better at hiding his lack of engagement with certain projects (Epsiodes I and II for example).

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A.I. may have been a miss for you, and many others apparently, but not for me. I don't seek to change your opinion, suffice to say that I think you should look past the supposed schmaltziness of the ending. As for Minority Report, I don't much care for or about Tom Cruise either, but with the right director and the right film, he is a capable actor. There is so much more to that movie than Tom Cruise. Don't let that prevent you from having a great movie watching experience.

I felt my previous comments were enough to state my argument for why his "propensity for sentimentality" is more of a projection of certain spectators onto his films and him than what's really there. And yes, he is pigeon-holed. Much like any other person exposed in the media limelight, he is very much mislabelled and often entirely misrepresented, thus creating an image of him by which audiences and people "understand" him. The recent controversy over Munich is proof of that. Did you see that film? It is yet another example of Spielberg's masterful storytelling and intelligence as a filmmaker. Once again, the techniques he employs are used to ask questions, provoke a reaction, and then pose the question, why.

You can criticize Spielberg all you want; I'm not telling you he doesn't deserve it or that he's above it. I'm merely critiquing your criticism of him and his supposed growing tendency towards false sentimentality, something I find to be wholly untrue.

Ted

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They're both great, but Schindler's List is on a league of its own. All the tracks are haunting. I remember the first time I listened to it, I had to recoil in silence. The music just hit me.

My thoughts exactly. SL is one of the only scores that I've listened to (Williams or otherwise) that has really affected me in a deep way. Its not an easy score to listen to, but that is appropriate to the film.

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A.I. was a near, but-definite, miss.  It was frustrating to watch because it came so close ... before it collapsed into itself. It could have been one of his best -- an intelligent, thought - provoking, well-acted story and stunningly well told.   Minority Report I haven't seen. I just cannot stomach Tom Cruise or anything he stands for. I doubt it aproaches the simple brilliance of Raiders though, which I think it one of the most perfectly-realized films ever made.

HAHA who wantts Williams to score a tom cruise documentary? imagine the jumping the couch scene. wat kidna music do u think he'd write? gilderoy lockhartish? something more martial like darth vader? perhaps something like the death of jon kent?

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This is really going nowhere. Jurassic Park and SL are both GREAT scores, yet very different in every regard.

"JP is better!", "No way, SL is better!", "Stupid! JP is better!", ... , ...

What ever happened to personal taste?  

Oh, and just for the record: Schindler's List is better! :)

Far and Away was better than either one of those. :P:mrgreen:

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