Doyle vs Ottman

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I'm sure everyone here knows the connection between these two. Now, vote!

[Salacius 7]

Hmmm, don't like either,

I like Doyle's Frankenstein but that's just about it

As of for the Superman guy? Thank God they used Williams' music

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Ottman, though crediting Williams wrongly, at least made homage to him.

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah,at least Ottman tried.Doyle ruined Harry Potter for me.

K.M.

[scissorhands 16]

Doyle is a serious composer. Bye bye, Ottman.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ottman's use of the original themes was awfully cued. Doyle gets my vote because at least he made the score about 98% his own.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Peio and Drax have just nailed it.

Although that doesn't mean I can stop listening to Superman Returns.

[deimos 0]

Yup, I agree with those last opinions. The fact that Ottman reused Williams themes just means he's not insane. Superman is too much an icon to change it. Doyle, as Peio appointed, is a serious composer. He just tried to make his own Potter.

[robthehand 3]

Doyle is a great composer - just wrong for Harry Potter IMO. John Ottman has never written anything that I like to listen to, including Superman Returns.

[Greg1138 3]

Ottman's use of the original themes was awfully cued.  Doyle gets my vote because at least he made the score about 98% his own.

Ottman would have been slated if he had done that......

[tpigeon 3]

I enjoyed Superman Returns upon my first few listenings. But then I quickly realized how full a score it actually is, which makes it appropriate for the movie. As for Doyle, I mentioned in the other thread how disappointed I was that Williams couldn't continue Potter based on the brilliance of Azkaban. For me, this puts Doyle at an immediate disadvantage. But the sign of a good score, I think, is how it holds up over time. And though I was disappointed and downright frustrates at points when I first listened to it, Doyle's score has really grown on me. It doesn't hold a candle to Williams' (complete) score to Azkaban, but I think the score has personality and color that Doyle can call his own. He didn't ruin Harry Potter, just changed its musical direction. And if Williams was going to step aside, handing the reigns over to a composer like Doyle was the right choice. It's better to have a score with life and energy that's a bit different than a dull carbon copy of previous Potter scores

Ted, who also like Davis' Jurassic Park III

[Ollie 1,059]

I think Doyle is a better composer and he didn't just re-hash Williams' music. He made it his own.

Superman Returns suffers from poor performances of the theme and is temped tracked to death.

[robthehand 3]

I'm listening to it now, and I think GoF would have been a whole lot better if Doyle had just abandoned Williams' theme(s) alltogether. If anything, his adaptations of Williams' themes are the weakest parts of the score.

[Romão 2,274]

Doyle, by far. His body is very very interesting, mainly is Bragahn scores.

[Salacius 7]

I'm listening to it now, and I think GoF would have been a whole lot better if Doyle had just abandoned Williams' theme(s) alltogether. If anything, his adaptations of Williams' themes are the weakest parts of the score.

The score is the weakest part of the score

Just wallpaper,nothing more

On that note, does anybody know if Williams will do the next HP?

[robthehand 3]

The score is the weakest part of the score

What you do mean? :?

On that note, does anybody know if Williams will do the next HP?

You mean after no. 5?

[Salacius 7]

The score is the weakest part of the score

What you do mean? :?

I don't wanna come across as a hater as I do like his other stuff but

I really didn't like his Harry Potter score:(

On that note, does anybody know if Williams will do the next HP?

You mean after no. 5?

Yeah, the next Harry Potter movie

[Composer_Fan 2]

I cared for Superman Returns more than Goblet of Fire. Ottman was more faithful to the original themes than Doyle. And I appreciate that, not only because it's a continuation of John Williams's themes, but that it provides a thematic consistency.

[robthehand 3]

I wouldn't say Ottman was faithful to the themes at all. He took them and simplified them, so they lose any impact they had (for me). It's more of an insult to Williams' score than a continuation, IMO.

[tpigeon 3]

Doyle may have been the wrong person to adapt Williams' themes, but he wasn't the wrong person for the score. His score is less about creating an atmosphere and heavier on hitting the dramatic emotion of the characters. In some scenes he takes a very broad approach, whereas in others he's much more subtle. For example, I find some of his more forceful action writing to be jarring, and he can sometimes score quiet moments (such as the dark mark in the sky) entirely too loudly. However, Harry's "in love" music was perfect and some of the more triumphant moments - like the fanfare from the Golden Egg and Black Lake cues - were terrific. I liked his somber approach to the emotional climax of the film, but in the end, Hogwarts didn't have the personality that Williams gave it with his scores. Overall, I very much enjoyed Doyle's effort, despite its shortcomings.

Ted

[rsp3studio 1]

While I think that Doyle is more in tune with the classical sound and certainly knows how to write it well, Ottman's score to "Superman Returns" may have been superior, or atleast worked better, than "Goblet of Fire". If it comes down to the composers though, I have to say Doyle.

[John Crichton 4]

Superman Returns, easily. A decent but not great score with good homages to Williams work, while GoF is a rather bland medicocre-fest with no memorable themes and only the occasional memorable moment.

[robthehand 3]

When I got over the fact that it wasn't a Williams score and didn't sound like a Williams score, I became very fond of The Goblet of Fire. Superman Returns, though, just sounds bland bland bland to me. I can tell it was "written" using a keyboard, I'm certain of it.

[Panthera 0]

Doyle.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

If I have to choose between these two bland scores, I guess

it's Doyle´s Superman.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Goblet of Fire. It did not completely stay with John Williams' established themes, but it's one of the best of 2005, and far superior to Ottman's work.

I hated Goblet at first, but it really is great work, and hardly "bland."

[MAG-SI 10]

Superman easy.

I even deleted my mp3s of GoF on my comp..... It is just scarry reading your posts, really!

[Trent B 337]

If I have to choose between these two bland scores, I guess

it's Doyle´s Superman.

You mean Ottman's Superman right?

Doyle did Goblet Of Fire, not Superman Returns.

By the way I voted for Superman Returns.

[Henry B 50]

They're both mediocre. One has a lot of boring original material, and one a lot of boring rehashed material.

But Doyle has done some very good scores.

[tpigeon 3]

Superman easy.

I even deleted my mp3s of GoF on my comp..... It is just scarry reading your posts, really!

I find it scary that so many people are choosing Superman Returns.

Ted

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

If I have to choose between these two bland scores, I guess

it's Doyle´s Superman.

You mean Ottman's Superman right?

Doyle did Goblet Of Fire, not Superman Returns.

By the way I voted for Superman Returns.

Oops.Now you see how bland they are...

[matthewslater 0]

I guess if it comes down to who is a better composer I would have to say Doyle - Ottman should stick to editting....Jack of all trades and all that....I would agree with most comments about GoF being bland - I can't remember any non Williams themes in that score, sad but true.

[SomeNewGuy 0]

GoF is much more interesting than Superman Returns.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

So now Doyle gets the thumbs up because 'he made it his own' where everyone was bashing him last time because he didnt adapt more Williams? :?

Anyway I think most people here (myself included) were/are too harsh on Superman Returns' Main Title March. Its not weak by any standard generally. Yes, the opening statement of the march was weak, giving a poor first impression but thats about it imo. Its lightyears away from the LSO, not a patch on Debney and Kunzel, but also lightyears ahead of the BBC's and that LA Philharmonic (or was it City of Prague?) one on Giants of Cinema *shudder*. I actually think the bright nearly happy sound feels rather Boston Pop-y

[robthehand 3]

So now Doyle gets the thumbs up because 'he made it his own' where everyone was bashing him last time because he didnt adapt more Williams? :?

I don't know about anyone else, but my criticism of Doyle abandoning Williams' themes was just a first impression. Once I got over that, I realised that I rather liked the new materal.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I really don't like Doyle's Goblet of Fire. There are some good moments, but in the end there's nothing remotely excellent in the score. On the other hand, there is a part in Superman Return's "Rough Flight" that I really do find excellent. I haven't listened to Superman Returns in it's entirety yet, but it sounded as if I am less likely to fall asleep during Superman than during Goblet of Fire.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

On the other hand, there is a part in Superman Return's "Rough Flight" that I really do find excellent.

It's really nothing more then half a dozen temp scores glued together and Williams superman theme trown into the mix.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

To be exact: It's the music from 4:00 - 4:22 that I really like. It sounds excellent to me. I don't know if it's very similar to anything else. I might be. But I like that part a lot.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

James Horner, Legend Of The Falls.

It bugs me that Ottman didn't make any attempt to smooth out the different temp tracks he was using, it's like you are listening to a different CD every 30 seconds.

[tpigeon 3]

It bugs me that Ottman didn't make any attempt to smooth out the different temp tracks he was using, it's like you are listening to a different CD every 30 seconds.

Exactly. Also, as the Film Score Monthly podcast pointed out, Ottman's music involves all areas of the orchestra playing the same notes at the same time. There's no complexity at all.

Ted

[Morlock 11]

Peio and Drax have just nailed it.

Yes.

Although that doesn't mean I can stop listening to Superman Returns.

Not quite there, in my case. His use of Williams' themes are generally quite bad (or I'll put it this way- they're never good), although admirable. His own material works well in the film, but I don't think it makes for a very good listen. The only things I like in it are the goofy villains theme and the Legends of The Fall moment in the plane scene.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

I'm with Rob on this one. Doyle's score is actually good. I can't say the same for SR. The fact that Doyle didn't use the themes much didn't bother me, I guess because Williams didn't use them much either with POA.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

To be exact: It's the music from 4:00 - 4:22 that I really like. It sounds excellent to me. I don't know if it's very similar to anything else. I might be. But I like that part a lot.

Stefan is right, that section is nearly a carbon copy of a section in Samuel's Death from Legends of the Fall

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I have to get Legends of the Fall.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't even know Legends Of The Fall very well at all, but that moment just screams Horner to me.

Exactly. Also, as the Film Score Monthly podcast pointed out, Ottman's music involves all areas of the orchestra playing the same notes at the same time. There's no complexity at all.

Ted

I'd like the new Superman personal theme a lot more if it had any kind of counterpoint in it.

[Morlock 11]

I have to get Legends of the Fall.

Yes, you do. Excellent score, one of Horner's very best.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm looking to sell my copy of Legends of the Fall.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I really can't explain why, but whereas I always get it right when I try to hum the Smallville theme from "Death of Jonathan Kent" or "Leaving Home", anytime I try to hum that same theme in "Memories", I end up humming Harry's theme from Philosopher's Stone.

[Justin 2]

Peio and Drax have just nailed it.

Although that doesn't mean I can stop listening to Superman Returns.

Justin

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm looking to sell my copy of Legends of the Fall.

I offer two bucks!