Once Upon A Time In The West - THE most beautiful of themes?

[Quintus 5,399]

Continuing on with my Ennio Morricone related thread (I've just recieved the Munich Concert dvd in the post today), I wish to point out that I believe the main theme to this threads stated film to be the most beautiful of all romantic style movie themes. The strings are soooo lovely and the melody itself is sheer heaven, yet not immediately obvious.

Forget Basil Poledouris's gorgeous love theme for Conan and John Barry's Out Of Africa for soothing strings, Ennio's Main Theme to OUATITW is still the most beautiful theme from a movie - were strings are concernend.

Ironic really, because John Williams has NEVER written anything so stunning. Schindlers and Tibet get close, but not close enough. This from a massive Williams fan btw.

The music of which I speak can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L63_BCV9irs Bare in mind its only an excerpt of a much more satisfying full concert arrangement.

So I challenge you to show me a movie piece which beats Ennio's effort. I of course realise that beauty is in the ear of the beholder

[Henry B 50]

Found it rather dull. Is this an acquired taste?

[Dr.ZacharySmith 0]

Yes... a good score and lovely music. But, for my money...the best western scores were either the ones written in that truly bombastic western style by Bernstein or, my personal favourite, the score written for "The Big Country," by Jerome Moross. Who could forget that opening cue...

[Richard Penna 3,669]

Beautiful piece, and I used Jill's America to score part of Monument Valley, in a recent USA holiday movie (rescored from Dances with Wolves, take that Barry )

Incidentally, I've very proud of my musical selections for that movie - no pop or rock songs anywhere, but proper tracked score like in any normal movie (although I admit that no piece made it through unedited, but I consider my music editing skills to be reasonably good and we're not talking Lucas standard)

I even put an isolated score (not including the occasionally substantial volume changes) on the DVD

[King Mark 3,625]

it's nice,but i get tired of it quickly

K.M.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

As a film score, it's outstanding. On CD, it's a bit cheesy at times, but if you accept that, it's still great. I still have to get the expanded/remastered release... and that of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

Marian - who picked up Fistful of Dollars on DVD last week, and will get Few Dollars More this week.

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

No

[JoeinAR 1,949]

not no, but hell no.

[David Coscina 3]

I'll take Alex North's Cheyenne Autumn over Morricone's overly simple theme constructed on consecutive thirds. And the opening line from

Princess Leia's theme is far more beautiful in my opinion.

Morricone is oft heralded as a film score god but much of his canon is derived from the same harmonic progressions with similar orchestral arrangements.

on another note, I was listening to Miklos Rosza's El Cid and found the love theme from tha gorgeous. And it sounds like Horner ripped it off for Zorro too!!!!

[Ollie 1,059]

I agree about Horner.

Williams has written many more beautiful themes than Morricone.

[A24 4,326]

Morricone is oft heralded as a film score god but much of his canon is derived from the same harmonic progressions with similar orchestral arrangements.  

That's why I gave up on him a long time ago. He does not seem to grow. Always the same sweet chords!

[publicist 4,643]

NONSENSE!

While 'Once upon a Time' is hardly a favourite of mine, i heartily recomend 'Marco Polo' or 'La Venexiana' for very different kinds of melodies.

And no, Williams has not nearly written as many great AND idiosyncratic themes.

[A24 4,326]

How can it be nonsense? I've heard him repeating himself a gazillion times.

[Sandor 796]

Morricone is oft heralded as a film score god but much of his canon is derived from the same harmonic progressions with similar orchestral arrangements.

Don't people say these kind of things about Williams too? Morricone is more diverse than most people realise.

Always the same sweet chords!

Yet, despite the similarities between various pieces, I'm amazed how distinctive they nonetheless become. I would never confuse Lolita for What Dreams May Come, or The Mission for Nostromo.

Ironic really, because John Williams has NEVER written anything so stunning.

What you mean to say is; Williams has never written Once Upon A Time In The West. It is one of my favorite themes and it is a piece of music that can drive me to tears.

But Williams has written stuff that is different, yet equally beautiful: Schindler's List (more complex, more profound and very rewarding), the theme from Jurassic Park, the Force Theme! and more. Williams always gives me the feeling that he COULD have written OUATITW (if he wanted to).

But Morricone, as good as he is, never gives me the feeling he could have written Star Wars, Raiders Of The Lost Ark, Harry Potter, etc., etc.

[A24 4,326]

Yet, despite the similarities between various pieces, I'm amazed how distinctive they nonetheless become. I would never confuse Lolita for What Dreams May Come, or The Mission for Nostromo.

Perhaps, but he often recalls the same atmosphere in every movie he does. Last week I saw the first 10 minutes of The Untouchables, and voila, there were those typical Morricone chords again.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm not terribly big on Schindler's List for some reason. I could never get into it.

[publicist 4,643]

Last week I saw the first 10 minutes of The Untouchables

That's where my 'nonsense' comment came from...it's always the same old american fodder people here are referring to...'last week i saw 'Mission'; 'In the Line of Fire'. 'Wolf'; 'Mission to Mars' etc. etc.

Morricone is such a prolific composer that it's simply a disservice to reduce him like that.

And how i can hear the cries if someone here would say the same about Williams (and certainly with a point, too). 'Images' would be dragged to the discussion, as would the atonal parts of 'Close Encounters' and so on...but Willliams certainly got the same amount of Prokoviev-sounding as Morricone got the Belcanto-romantic melodies...

[muehlopwer 0]

It's a wonderful theme and a very romantic love theme!

But this arrangement on youtube is very very bad - too lush, too slow and the vocalist can't sing!!

This is my interpretation of this concert version!

[crocodile 7,983]

It's a stunning theme!

Karol

[Sandor 796]

Perhaps, but he often recalls the same atmosphere in every movie he does. Last week I saw the first 10 minutes of The Untouchables, and voila, there were those typical Morricone chords again.

Yeah, and last week I saw the first 10 minutes of Harry Potter, and voila, there were those typical Williams chords again...

And the week before that The Mask Of Zorro - same thing, this time with Horner.

Oh, and I saw Edward Scissorhands some time ago - that Elfman is such a hack! Always the same instrumentation!

[A24 4,326]

I'm not terribly big on Schindler's List for some reason.  I could never get into it.

Well, it's not a heoric fanfare, so there you go.

And how i can hear the cries if someone here would say the same about Williams (and certainly with a point, too). 'Images' would be dragged to the discussion, as would the atonal parts of 'Close Encounters' and so on...but Willliams certainly got the same amount of Prokoviev-sounding  as Morricone got the Belcanto-romantic melodies...

Yeah, and last week I saw the first 10 minutes of Harry Potter, and voila, there were those typical Williams chords again...

Not at all, Williams' musical vocabulary is pretty vast. In fact, I wish he too was stuck in the 70s, like Morricone. I mean, I miss the old Williams when he used different chords and chord progressions. The new ones don't do much to me. Say, I'll bet it's comforting to a lot of Morricone fans that he'll never deviates from his formula.

Of course, it's Williams! But I'm not talking about "style". Every composer has a style. But Williams does not repeat himself in the way that Morricone or Horner do.

One thing I must admit, the first time I heard Schindler's List, I thought it sounded like Morricone.

Alex

[publicist 4,643]

But Morricone has written in a lot more idioms than Williams. The aleatoric and atonal stuff he regularly revisits is as far removed from the pretty melodies as you can get...check out the recent 'A Pure Formality', for instance.

Additionaly, Morricone's wicked sense of humour often makes the music less conventional (think of the belching sounds in 'Beggar's MArch' from 'Giu La Testa' or 'When Woman had Tails'), which is a rather rare trait for american composers.

I could provide you with dozens of other examples, but since i did list 30 Morricone scores in a rcent thread, i do not bother to repeat me....

And 'Schindler's List', of all things, doesn't sound like Morricone at all. It rather sounds like warmed-over Delerue.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm not terribly big on Schindler's List for some reason.  I could never get into it.

Well, it's not a heoric fanfare, so there you go.

Yet, I adore Empire of the Sun, Sleepers, AI: Artificial Intelligence, Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can and War of the Worlds.

[A24 4,326]

Yet, I adore Empire of the Sun, Sleepers, AI: Artificial Intelligence, Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can and War of the Worlds.

Talking of Empire Of The Sun, I know someone who persistently claims that Williams stole that theme from Morricone's The Mission.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Oh, and Sabrina is another one I spin quite often. If The Mission is anywhere near as good as Empire of the Sun, I'll grab it.

[Sandor 796]

The Mission is much, much better by the way.

Alex; I don't agree. Horner repeats himself often. Note for note. Morricone however - although remaining in a similar idiom - NEVER repeats a melody or arrangement note-for-note. It may be "the same" on first listen (much like the Superman theme, Raiders' March or Star Wars theme might sound the same to someone hearing them for the first time), but after repeated listenings they become unique in such a way that you totally forget why you found those pieces to be alike in the first place.

[Miz 139]

It's pretty, but my exposure to Morricone is pretty much all from the YoYo Ma album - it gets a better performance there than on the YouTube clip, and is surpassed by Deborah's Theme from Once Upon A Time In America....which enraptures me every time.

[David Coscina 3]

I think the basis of this thread is musically vacuous. How does one quantify a qualitative perspective such as "the most beautiful theme"? Music resonates with everyone differently. To me, Morricone is good but not outstanding. Musically he has some nice harmonic progressions but nothing as advanced as Williams- But then again, neither compares to Mahler so there you go....

[Pelzter 0]

I agree with you in part, TheGreatEye. Morricone is my second favorite film composer, and I think the theme to West is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard. It gets to me EVERY time I hear it!

As a single theme it exclipses just about any other cue ever done for film, with the possible exception of the E.T. Finale. However, Williams wins out in terms of entire scores, creativity and complexity.

My top three Morricone scores are West, Once Upon a Time in America, and Cinema Paradiso, which is arguably the most stunning love theme ever put to film (tied with the Godfather).

[Marcus 390]

I just don't find Morricone's melodies very interesting, unfortunately. I like the timbral/ conceptual aspects of his output more. It's the same with Puccini: Everyone seems to rave about how beautiful it is, but I can't seem to ever fall in love with it. I'm the first to recognize both Puccini and Morricone as fine craftsmen, but I really don't care for their melodic writing. It sounds like something that was just "dreamt up" at a piano, there's never any sense of restraint.

Williams' melodies are always more memorable to me, and more beautiful, also because they are amazingly constructed! There's such infinite grace and craft to them!

[Sandor 796]

and Cinema Paradiso, which is arguably the most stunning love theme ever put to film (tied with the Godfather).

And was written NOT by Ennio, but by his son Andrea....