The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

I wonder if the Dol Guldur storyline in the theatrical version of BOFA will include information about the dwarf and elven rings of power. DoS keeps this stuff exclusive to the EE, so this will probably be part of the BOFA EE as well.

[Jay 37,338]

I dunno. The FOTR EE introduced the lembas bread, but then they talk about it in the TTT TC anyway.

There was also an extra bit about Thrain's ring in the AUJ EE wasn't there

[gkgyver 1,645]

Yes, but that's the EE as well. I think they'll keep this story EE exclusive.

[Faleel 5,345]

There goes another one, though this one seems more legit.

[Incanus 5,714]

There goes another one, though this one seems more legit.

If we believe this report, then there is no prologue as we deduced from the soundtrack track titles and other sources.

[Barnald 365]

Mmm...I knew I'd wish that 4Chan bullshitter was telling the truth. Sounds like a much better film.

As for

Dain

, I truly despair. I was always concerned about that casting.

[Incanus 5,714]

Mmm...I knew I'd wish that 4Chan bullshitter was telling the truth. Sounds like a much better film.

As for

Dain

, I truly despair. I was always concerned about that casting.

I was always more concerned with the writing actually. I am sure the actor inspired some weird stuff from PJs mind.

[Barnald 365]

I love Billy, and have seen enough films and TV shows with him in to know he can do serious acting very well. But he also has the potential for over the top comic acting, and I feared Jackson would go that route. Alas, he has done so. And after the Radagast feedback I am now wondering if they're regretting this, hence the rumours that he'd been replaced by CGI and us not seeing him in trailers up to this point. It seems they eventually decided to just forego all the effort and include him as is, because it would be impossible to just cut him out of the film (that said, given that he apparently does

fuck all and isn't crowned king

they may as well have done)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,338]

Yea, I had a similar thought along those lines myself recently.

But on the other hand, when making FOTR didn't they originally have no prologues at all for any of the films? And they were all created in editing?

[Barnald 365]

If there is a deleted prologue, it will be White Council/Sauron's ring shit, I have no doubt. Apparently in this film

we simply cut to Gandalf in a cage and Radagast and Galadriel ready to enter, followed by Elrond and Saruman. It's something like a ten minute sequence (if that) and that's it.

That sounds incredibly odd to me. They must have filmed more expositionary stuff to go before that. I remember reading on TORN that guy's idea of a prologue where Radagast races to Rivendell and demands a council be called. He tells them what's going on and Galadriel, because of his absent-mindedness, relates the forging of the rings in more detail, with Sauron flashbacks. At the end it would cut to shots of the rings on the hands of the three Elven bearers, with Gandalf last of all in his cage, and 'The Battle of the Five Armies' appearing over the army marching out of Dol Guldur.

To me this makes perfect sense. All of PJ's films have had a flashback prologue. They need to explain the Elvish ring bearers - how else are film viewers to know? It provides a proper set-up for the showdown at Dol Guldur - as it is, it's simply too abridged to simply have them arriving there. We could get a chance for more Saruman dismissing Radagast (this time to his face). But with the Dwarven rings of power probably also coming into the equation, and that entire arc being relegated to the EE's, it makes me think that this similarly ring-related material would also be put back to the EE. I'm crossing my fingers that's the case anyway.

[Jay 37,338]

Huh. I kinda like that idea.

And it makes sense as a prologue for the 2 film structure.

[Barnald 365]

I still think it makes sense in the three film structure, just that they obviously wanted to cut the TC down to a bare minimum. I have to think WB are leaning on PJ. I can't see why he would have willingly butchered the Beorn and Thrain scenes for DoS and have no idea why he would apparently be cutting really quite essential stuff from BOTFA

(Only one scene involving Dol Guldur and the White Council, no Thorin and others funeral, no coronation of Dain, return journey and Bag End stuff is horribly short - all according to that reviewer, who I really believe to be legit)

. He was talking about getting the film down to 2:20 before credits. Now it's something like 2:11, 2:12 before credits? Why? He talks all that thriller shit - I'm sorry PJ, but this isn't All the President's Men - it's an epic Middle-earth film. What thriller has a 45-minute battle sequence? Do me a favour. Either PJ has taken the criticism of AUJ's length ridiculously to heart (which I don't really believe) or WB want this film as short as possible so they can milk it for as many showings and therefore as much money as possible. I've read suggestions that they did the same with the second part of Deathly Hallows, similarly the last film of a major money-spinning franchise for them.

Three things concern me about this film:

1) The almost certain truncated nature of it and breathless pace, meaning scenes I really want to see will be missing (like with the DoS TC). For this I think the studios are culpable.

2) Characterization and depictions, i.e. apparently

Dain being 'goofy' and doing nothing, and Beorn arriving yet not killing Bolg, that honour seemingly being given to Legolas instead

. For this I blame PJ, Boyens and Walsh, though it ties in to my next point.

3) The Kili, Legolas and Tauriel business, for which I don't know who to blame. It's probably both - the studios for pressuring them to include it and bring it to the forefront (at the expense of loyalty to the book and other characters), and the writers for their handling of said characters and relationships.

[Incanus 5,714]

To paraphrase our dear film makers:

Into the fires of Orodruin
This one must be cast.
This [is] the price that must be paid.
Only thus its power will be undone,
Only thus a great evil unmade.
There is no other choice,
There is no other way.
One of you must take it [for the team],
One of you must pay.

And then everything is awesome!

[KK 3,307]

If BOFA suffers the pace issues of DOS, then I will take that as a indwell sign that PJ has finally lost all sensibilities of a fine director.

And if the Dol Goldur scene is wrapped up in 10 min. It would make the whole inclusion of that subplot feel utterly useless!

[Faleel 5,345]

And if the Dol Goldur scene is wrapped up in 10 min. It would make the whole inclusion of that subplot feel utterly useless!

As opposed to Jackson forgetting about it like you wanted

[KK 3,307]

That's not what I meant. I meant a 10min scene seems like pathetic payoff to all the meandering and wandering around it in the last two films. If that's all its going to get, then why go there at all in the first place with the trilogy?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

If it's true, I would hope two more scenes involving the WC/DG plot would be added for the EE - that prologue I described (and according to someone with sources in production was intended at some point) and a final White Council meeting during the journey home, as the company stops in Rivendell. This would wrap up the situation with Sauron, explain Radagast's decision to retire from affairs, and set-up the events of FOTR nicely. Could maybe even get a Rangers of the North cameo in there (and, if you must, a very young Estel one).

[Once 605]

I just want to see all of Christopher Lee's scenes. He was the best part of the trailer.

[Barnald 365]

It sounds like Saruman

is in it for a few minutes tops, and to be honest I'd be amazed if he had much dialogue beyond that one line.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Once 605]

How can four days of shooting with no need to change set or anything only cover so little? I guess he told a lot of stories.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I just want to see all of Christopher Lee's scenes. He was the best part of the trailer.

The trailer shot was probably all of Lee's scenes right there. The rest will be his stunt double!

Shooting BOFA with Christopher Lee:

Lee: "Leave Sauron to me."

PJ: "OK, Christopher, could you do it with a more menacing voice, please?"

Lee: "Leave Sauron to ME!"

PJ: "OK, perfect, that's a wrap! Now bring in the jujitsu stunt double, please!"

Who needs a jujitsu double?! That's what CG doubles are for!!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Because it's more fun to have the whole team work their asses off to later replace all their work with CG, rather than decide it'll be CG right from the start!

[gkgyver 1,645]

And Steef laughed at me when I suggested some time ago that BOFA could, of all things, be too short.

[Incanus 5,714]

Hehehe...

"Did I tell you I stabbed a man to death during the Second World War?"

Man Lee has had a life. It was really the creepiest and funniest thing when he lectured PJ at RotK shoot for Saruman's death scene what kind of a sound a man stabbed in the back makes, because you know, he has done it or at least witnessed it in WWII and thus knows.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

And Steef laughed at me when I suggested some time ago that BOFA could, of all things, be too short.

2h25 is too short for the story they have left to tell?

[gkgyver 1,645]

No, 2h10m is too short for the story left they CHOSE to tell.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There really isnt much story left.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

But it's what the story that chose to tell that's the problem. I don't know if you've read the apparent spoilers BB, but it does look as though certain things aren't included, especially after the battle. I hope they're wrong, but I really expected to see stuff like

Thorin's funeral and Dain's coronation

. By contrast, I was fully prepared for things like

a last stop in Rivendell and finally White Council meeting

to be saved for the EE - if it was filmed of course.

[Incanus 5,714]

But remember the awesome Barny, remember the awesome!

[Barnald 365]

I passed the awesome stage long ago. I loved AUJ (still do) so I'm allowed to be wary of how it will all turn out.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

I agree with you that 135 minutes of film is surely enough to tell the story, but unfortunately maybe it's not enough to tell Jackson's version of the story...To be honest, omissions don't bother me so much since I know they will have a good chance of being restored for the EE. It's the story changes/additions that will irk me. And with the TC of DoS it was the case that my disappointment over the omissions was exacerbated by the wank that was included.

And yes, you can call me bro. You can call me whatever you like BB (within reason of course).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

It depends on how stretched the battle is. If the battle is 45 minutes, the epilogue is like 15 minutes, there is an hour for Smaug, lead up to war, character moments, Tauriel, Bilbo ... Seems a tad rushed.

[Incanus 5,714]

I say Smaug is toast in 15 minutes max. Then aftermath, some Master of Lake-Town scheming and then back to Erebor. Then they bite,they bite and fight and bite, bite, bite,bite,fight, fight, fight, the Thorin and Azog Show!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Hehehe...

"Did I tell you I stabbed a man to death during the Second World War?"

Read it in his voice.

[Faleel 5,345]

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=798366;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

[Incanus 5,714]

I would just like to say that armor design is awesome! Nice raven motif going on both in the armor and the crown. Oh and in the sword.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

So what's the JWFan reaction going to be like? Stef and I continue embracing denial and enjoy it for what it is, BB writes ten paragraphs about what's wrong with it but ends up liking it months later, KK and Inky shrug, Fal and Jay lament the score editing? Where's SafeUnderHill these days? He's always chipper when it's needed.

[Incanus 5,714]

Perhaps he could not take all the awesomeness pouring out of these threads?

[Barnald 365]

Seems much like Thror's armour. Great shame we won't see him fight in it. The only logic I see behind it as that they thought with the Dwarves wearing so much armour it might be hard to inflict serious wounds on them in a manner that wouldn't seem too brutal.

[Faleel 5,345]

Well Armor usually was usually taken off during battles in real life....

[Barnald 365]

Well one could say it was ceremonial, though the fact Thror fought in it suggests otherwise. Would you set out into a throng of Orcs, Trolls and Christ knows what else at the head of just 13 others (some hardly warriors) without it?

AH I'VE GOT IT! It makes perfect sense in film logic!

We know from those guide books they plan to get to the Ravenhill since Azog and Bolg are there. But there's some distance between the Gate of Erebor and the Ravenhill right? And how long would it take to make that in heavy armour, with all those weapons? That would explain why they rush out with the bear mimimum, mainly mail shirts, pauldrons and vambraces (the odd helmet wouldn't go amiss). I still question how the hell they're going to get through all that mass of bodies but I guess the film will explain it somehow.