The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread

[gkgyver 1,645]

Jesus .... please give us a press release and track list for DoS, so the discussion will at least have a foot set in reality.

[Barnald 365]

If the Nazgul music is to have any relevance, than Thrain's Ring must surely be the link. I don't think it's that outlandish at this stage.

[Jay 37,287]

So the reason Azog is chasing the company in AUJ is not for revenge, it's because Sauron sent Azog to get back a dwarven ring of power from Thorin?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

I say this with the utmost sincerity: I want to know what PJ's reasoning for everything he's changed is.

[Faleel 5,340]

Both!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

If Azog really is put on Thorin's trail to get a Dwarven ring from him, the Nazgul statement would be quite fitting actually. But ... I lack the faith.

[Incanus 5,713]

If Azog really is put on Thorin's trail to get a Dwarven ring from him, the Nazgul statement would be quite fitting actually. But ... I lack the faith.

I for one do not see why would the Ringwraith theme be blasting full tilt at that moment, Dwarven ring or no Dwarven ring. But I guess the madness in Thorin and his line might be originating from the ring. But why would that be scored by the most violent of the bad guy themes in the LotR trilogy? Is it implying Necromancer's indirect hand in hunting down Thorin and his fellows? I guess then by PJ logic they would have to broadcast it to the audience and hammer it home with a blunt instrument, namely the Ringwraith theme.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

So the reason Azog is chasing the company in AUJ is not for revenge, it's because Sauron sent Azog to get back a dwarven ring of power from Thorin?

Why not? It would at least explain why Azog has suddenly re-appeared to hound Thorin, and would link the two arcs together. It's not the worst idea PJ could come up with.

[Incanus 5,713]

So the reason Azog is chasing the company in AUJ is not for revenge, it's because Sauron sent Azog to get back a dwarven ring of power from Thorin?

Why not? It would at least explain why Azog has suddenly re-appeared to hound Thorin, and would link the two arcs together. It's not the worst idea PJ could come up with.

Well on top of that Azog could be a zombie re-animated by the said Necromancer, who can summon the spirits of the dead! It all makes sense!

[crocodile 7,984]

All that trouble to cover up the truth behind a piece of music "tracking"?

Karol

[gkgyver 1,645]

If Azog really is put on Thorin's trail to get a Dwarven ring from him, the Nazgul statement would be quite fitting actually. But ... I lack the faith.

I for one do not see why would the Ringwraith theme be blasting full tilt at that moment, Dwarven ring or no Dwarven ring.

Two scenarios: number one, Azog is ordered to bring back the ring by the Witch King of Angmar, so Thorin charging into a losing fight with Azog is what he expected; so Thorin attacking Azog is the Witch King's triumph.

Number two, yet another theme from LotR has taken on a slightly different meaning, and the theme represents the Nazgul's hunt for the rings of power.

Or number three: none of the above.

[Faleel 5,340]

All that trouble to cover up the truth behind a piece of music "tracking"?

Karol

We call that "lifting" over here, son!

[Barnald 365]

Unfortunately I still suspect the resurrection thing will come to fruition, and be revealed in DoS. Unless they go with the angle that Azog is serving Sauron because he's an Orc and these films have established that Orcs live to serve Sauron. I don't think the masses would question it at least. Does Azog have a choice in the matter? Is a Gundabad chief strong and independent enough to choose whether or not to serve Sauron?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

If Azog really is put on Thorin's trail to get a Dwarven ring from him, the Nazgul statement would be quite fitting actually. But ... I lack the faith.

I for one do not see why would the Ringwraith theme be blasting full tilt at that moment, Dwarven ring or no Dwarven ring.

Two scenarios: number one, Azog is ordered to bring back the ring by the Witch King of Angmar, so Thorin charging into a losing fight with Azog is what he expected; so Thorin attacking Azog is the Witch King's triumph.

Number two, yet another theme from LotR has taken on a slightly different meaning, and the theme represents the Nazgul's hunt for the rings of power.

Or number three: none of the above.

I vote for a rescore for the scene to make sense musically!

All that trouble to cover up the truth behind a piece of music "tracking"?

Karol

We call that lifting over here, son!

Heavy lifting!

[Faleel 5,340]

Why rescore? The first score* was perfect!

*(the OST version)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

So the reason Azog is chasing the company in AUJ is not for revenge, it's because Sauron sent Azog to get back a dwarven ring of power from Thorin?

Why not? It would at least explain why Azog has suddenly re-appeared to hound Thorin, and would link the two arcs together. It's not the worst idea PJ could come up with.

Well on top of that Azog could be a zombie re-animated by the said Necromancer, who can summon the spirits of the dead! It all makes sense!

That's absurd. No such power exists in this world!

[Faleel 5,340]

Hey, atleast the Nazgul theme was part of the same musical "party"!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,984]

I vote for a rescore for the scene to make sense musically!

Yeah, with the Lothlorien theme!

I mean, Thorin is in possession of a ring of power, and Galadriel as well, so, you know, they're kind of connected! Yeah, it makes perfect sense!

We might as well always go with Nature's Reclamation since all those characters live in Middle Earth and are all trapped in the eternal "circle of life" thing (said in Mufasa's voice)

Karol

[Barnald 365]

The thing is, they may feel obliged to show why the Necromancer is called the Necromancer. That's probably why we're getting this entombed Nazgul BS. It might also be why they go with the zombie Azog thing.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I vote for a rescore for the scene to make sense musically!

Yeah, with the Lothlorien theme!

I mean, Thorin is in possession of a ring of power, and Galadriel as well, so, you know, they're kind of connected! Yeah, it makes perfect sense!

We might as well always go with Nature's Reclamation since all those characters live in Middle Earth and are all trapped in the eternal "circle of life" thing (said in Mufasa's voice)

Karol

Why not score it with "Concerning Hobbits" because the outcome of the fight will, you know, concern a hobbit.

[Faleel 5,340]

Hey, atleast the Nazgul theme was part of the same musical "party"!

What party?

The "Mordor" theme "party".

Lothlorien and Thorin are NOT.

Lothlorien is part of the "The Elves" theme "party"

and Thorin is part of the "The Dwarves" theme "party"

"The Azog theme has joined your party!"

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

The thing is, they may feel obliged to show why the Necromancer is called the Necromancer. That's probably why we're getting this entombed Nazgul BS. It might also be why they go with the zombie Azog thing.

The Witch King was called that in LotR, and we got no stupid explanation why he is called that, with him dancing around a brooding fire.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 7,984]

I vote for a rescore for the scene to make sense musically!

Yeah, with the Lothlorien theme!

I mean, Thorin is in possession of a ring of power, and Galadriel as well, so, you know, they're kind of connected! Yeah, it makes perfect sense!

We might as well always go with Nature's Reclamation since all those characters live in Middle Earth and are all trapped in the eternal "circle of life" thing (said in Mufasa's voice)

Karol

Why not score it with "Concerning Hobbits" because the outcome of the fight will, you know, concern a hobbit.

In fact why not have all three in counterpoint to each other?

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

It's obvious that the Nazgul music was never originally put there for contextual purposes, moreso to amp up the "badass" factor of the scene. But if this rung theory is true, then this will be the excuse used to "explain" it's use in the scene. Doug did say he had an explanation...maybe this is it?

If so, it is most concerning. And I would not buy that bs. No matter how eloquently expressed in writing

The thing is, they may feel obliged to show why the Necromancer is called the Necromancer. That's probably why we're getting this entombed Nazgul BS. It might also be why they go with the zombie Azog thing.

The Witch King was called that in LotR, and we got no stupid explanation why he is called that, with him dancing around a brooding fire.

LOL

If LotR was made today, we could have possibly had a whole other subplot to explain that name

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Showing the Necromancer going around and collecting his old Nazgul pals/busting them out of Dunedain jail could be neat to see. But spare us Azog returning from beyond.

[Faleel 5,340]

Azog is not from Mordor, nor has any relation with Mordor. He's only in relation with Dol Guldur, so that doesn't work.

But he is (most likely) still part of the Mordor theme designation, like the Nazgul (from Numenor!) are in Doug's book.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,340]

You're starting to sound like a separatist!

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Azog is not from Mordor, nor has any relation with Mordor. He's only in relation with Dol Guldur, so that doesn't work.

But he is (most likely) still part of the Mordor theme designation, like the Nazgul (from Numenor!) are in Doug's book.

You're starting to sound like Doug trying to explain the use of Nature's Reclamation during the charge of the Rohirrim!

I don't get why that one doesn't make sense. The idea that the NR theme evolves into a kind of general "force of good" theme sits well with me.

[Faleel 5,340]

Plus. the Rohirrim always struck me as more "Natural" than the Gondorians.

[Barnald 365]

He's no longer called the Necromancer after these films - he's a big eye called Sauron, so it doesn't matter anymore. Plus they could say that he lost his necromancer abilities once he left Dol Guldur because, you know, its the Hill of Sorcery, and has some kind of magical powers itself. Let's just say it's built on ancient Elvish burial ground or something. You know it makes sense.

And they can't show the Witch King dancing around a fire because they already established he's scared of being burned. Just go with me on this.

[Faleel 5,340]

Plus he's not that kind of witch

[gkgyver 1,645]

Azog is not from Mordor, nor has any relation with Mordor. He's only in relation with Dol Guldur, so that doesn't work.

But he is (most likely) still part of the Mordor theme designation, like the Nazgul (from Numenor!) are in Doug's book.

You're starting to sound like Doug trying to explain the use of Nature's Reclamation during the charge of the Rohirrim!

Hey, what produced one of the most iconic scenes in movie history can't be wrong!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,287]

I think the only explanation for those are that PJ didn't like Shore's original intentions and wanted those LOTR bits in there instead.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,340]

"Y'a see, I wanted to highlight how Thorin was reborn, kinda like in C**********y, then in DOS, I could highlight his backsliding with his animosity towards Bilbo in the Lonely Mountain."

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

I am now convinced more than ever that DOS will open with Gandalf receiving the key in Moria from Thrain before he gets captured.

Azog will be chasing the company in order to retrieve the seventh ring, held by Thorin (info given up after his torture in Dol Guldur)

And that of course explains the Nazgul music during AUJ - Azog is facing down Thorin, in possession of a ring of power. Doing the job of a Nazgul.

As someone who doesn't mind changes to the book, I like the sound of that. It would actually justify the Nazgul music, some said there was no way to justify it but something like that would work. No it doesn't change the confusion for first time viewers of AUJ but at least it will be explained, if this is true. Plus the music sounds awesome. I'd like some explanations for Gondor Reborn and stolen bits of LOTR music too though...

Sorry, but using the theme there still wouldn't make any sense.

And by the way, PJ DID make stupid crap up about the Witch King -- he had him break Gandalf's staff in the ROTK EE.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,340]

The raw brass section man, its just like "The Land of Shadow"!


Actually its more like DOTF in ROTS, same melody, just different lyrics (though with DOTF, I think it was just re-recorded choir?)


To me, it feels like a musical reward for all my patience listening to clipped statements and half-statements of all the Evil themes, to finally have it played/laid out in full at the end of the score.

BTW, in An Ancient Enemy, there when we first see Azog, there is a pulsing percussion beat, and it kinda sounds like the Footsteps of Doom, is this just my imagination?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]