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I don't really get the 'danger' argument. I mean did anyone think one of the band were going to die during the Warg attack in TTT? Problem is, people then complain about Aragorn's 'fake' death, so those people can't have it both ways.

And then there's Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn's arrival at the Pelennor Fields, which was basically a procession. The biggest battle in all the films loses all sense of threat.

For me, the trivialisation of certain engagements in The Hobbit films is fine. The last confrontation with Azog had the right sense of threat to it, and perhaps PJ didn't want to give us two intense action sequences back-to-back, and thus made the one in Goblintown more of a straightforward affair.

When you first read the book, the deaths of the three Dwarves in the final battle come as a great shock. I don't think anyone anticipated that given the tone of the book up to that point. Perhaps PJ is going for that as well, to give the culmination of the BoFA greater impact.

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And then there's Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn's arrival at the Pelennor Fields, which was basically a procession. The biggest battle in all the films loses all sense of threat.

Nay!

At that point in the theatrical edition of the film Theoden Ednew, Thengel's son Lord of the Mark lay dying under his steed Snowmane, his Rohirrim are scattered and near defeat by the cruel Haradrim and their Mûmakil forces. His sister daughter Eowyn, of the house of Eorl riding under the name Dernhelm stands alone , assailed by the Witch-king of Angmar, Black Captain, Lord of the Nazgûl, Chieftain of the Ringwraiths. His cruel mace bearing down upon her.

Meanwhile ships with black seals arrive at the battlements of Minas Tirith, filled (as far as we know) with forces from Umbar, that is fate, loyal to Sauron alone!

The arrival upon the battle of Lord Aragorn, who is named Strider, the son of Arathorn, who would become Essesar, the Elf-Stone and who though a long bloodline is related to Isildur, who severed the hand of Sauron and ended his reign for thousands of years, and Gimli, Gloin's son, and of the race of Durin, and Legolas, of the woodland realm and the army from the Paths Of The Dead that they bring forth, in a time unlooked for, when things seemed beyond hope is the relief of the tension that hath built up throught the film.

The EE kinda ruins that because we see the trio escaping the Paths Of The Dead.

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Well I was more referring to the point when they jump out of the boats. You know the battle is won there and then. Even when Legolas is faced down by a Mumakil you don't doubt somehow he's going to come out on top. And him doing that is equally preposterous to anything we saw in AUJ

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I don't really get the 'danger' argument. I mean did anyone think one of the band were going to die during the Warg attack in TTT? Problem is, people then complain about Aragorn's 'fake' death, so those people can't have it both ways.

Of course we can! We all knew Jackson wouldn't kill Aragorn, so why the hell waste our time on this dumb made up subplot? Besides, I don't actually need people to die to feel a sense of danger. Injuries and brushes with death are good enough when used properly.

With The Hobbit though, I don't think anyone's complaining that it needs to feel more dangerous. We'd just prefer not to see all these stupid thousand foot drops that accomplish nothing for the story while also making the characters seem to impossible to kill.

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That just makes it more tragic IMO. The army of the dead wasn't the climax anyway, they still had the Black Gates. I thought it was clever how they repaid their oath to Aragorn the King, him deciding he would "Become who he was born to be".

In the book, the contribution of the Rohirrim was essential, because you knew that they had weakened the enemy sufficiently enough to enable the overall victory. But in the film, you couldn't help but think that if they had just waited a few hours for all the Dead to show up they would have been fine, and the battle would have been won regardless. Alright Minas Tirith might have been sacked, but you've got to have some collateral damage haven't you? :whistle:

I meant in respect of it being the climax to that particular siege and battle.

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Thoughts on the end scene of the film:

The close ups of the eagles claws and feathers looks phenomenal but there's one shot of one flying in the fire light (2:33:30 i think) and I can't help but feel like it is fake.

Does Kilis ear look weird to anyone else at 2:33:07? Looks horribly plastic and like a slip on to me.

Since you opened the subject... :P

eagle1-1.jpg

This shot passes the Luke Skywalker CGI animal seal of approval

eagle2-1.jpg

This one passes the test

eagle3.jpg

This, does not. IMO the worst eagle shot in the film.

eagle4.jpg

Was this the shot you meant?. It pases the test, though not as good as the 1st two.

Now, anatomical things that bug me:

eagle5.jpg

Long curved necks while flying

eagle6.jpg

Two rows of tail feathers. I think this was done for practical, aesthetical purposes due to making huge eagles. Maybe a normal tail didnt look good. (something like the wings of the Hypogriff from HP3)

Basically all the close ups of the eagles landing-taking off, and attacks are almost perfect, and it shows those were made with reference footagle. The flying scenes you can see some of it is complete animation without reference (understandable, sometimes)

Anyway, best scene from the film :)

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And the scene where Bilbo is in the trolls handkerchief looks like something from the borrowers. It just seems like Bilbos motion in relation to the handkerchief doesn't quote match.

I think the one with Bilbo looks fine. I think it's the eagles heads that look a bit odd to me especially in the fire light.

And gotta say I love the sound of the tree creaking.

This is the one I think looks a bit off. I could spend forever going through shots haha!

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

yeah. long necked. Fails the test :P

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Check out this fan-made trailer for DOS, combining footage from the real DOS trailer with footage from DOS that turned up in the older AUJ trailers, plus some footage from AUJ as well

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As much hate as Radagast gets, I must say I think Mccoy plays him perfectly. Every line he delivers perfectly in my view, I especially love his narration of the Dol Guldur scene - even though some of the best music is missing from that scene I still get chills when the WitchKing mist starts to pour out.

Radagast is fun in parts but at times a bit too much (the smoking/high moments were excessive). And the Witch-King scene made me cringe. He looked like an evil version of Casper the ghost. And the black blob they called the Necromancer was quite disappointing.

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As much hate as Radagast gets, I must say I think Mccoy plays him perfectly. Every line he delivers perfectly in my view, I especially love his narration of the Dol Guldur scene - even though some of the best music is missing from that scene I still get chills when the WitchKing mist starts to pour out.

He looked like an evil version of Casper the ghost.

But thats more a problem with the designs of the Nazgul in the Weathertop scene from FOTR. (BTW some TORN'ers are thinking that is Khamul instead of the Witch King, though the Morgul blade confuses that theory)

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As much hate as Radagast gets, I must say I think Mccoy plays him perfectly. Every line he delivers perfectly in my view, I especially love his narration of the Dol Guldur scene - even though some of the best music is missing from that scene I still get chills when the WitchKing mist starts to pour out.

He looked like an evil version of Casper the ghost.

But thats more a problem with the designs of the Nazgul in the Weathertop scene from FOTR. (BTW some TORN'ers are thinking that is Khamul instead of the Witch King, though the Morgul blade confuses that theory)

No, I'm fine with the ghost designs from FotR. But in the Hobbit, the ghost looked incredibly cartoonish. Looked far more silly than it did intimidating (if that was what it was going for). And I was pleased with how Radagast just knocked him away.

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The big difference is probably that in FotR, the "ghost" design was used in the dark, and not in broad daylight like in The Hobbit. Plus, the wraiths in the "Ring world" were real actors, while in AUJ, it's CGI.

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The big difference is probably that in FotR, the "ghost" design was used in the dark, and not in broad daylight like in The Hobbit. Plus, the wraiths in the "Ring world" were real actors, while in AUJ, it's CGI.

Spot on.

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I finished the book (at last...) and i must say it is a completely different read from LOTR. It even looks like written by another person... LOTR is a work of literature....the hobbit looks like a short story, not even a novel. It is like rushed, whithout details.

It's strange how fast the events pass (one chapter for the whole battle, its very anticlimatic, really. PJ will make something great and emotional while in the book is just...meh) and then we have two chapters of bilbo returning home. I can clearly see how the battle will be expanded, and i will welcome it. I just hope the return home does not have as twice of footage...an edning like ROTK EE will suffice.

Now I see (and understand) why they are adding so many things. (but maybe i think that the 1st part of the book does not need much additions, while the second part needs a lot of expansion.)

Bring it on PJ!

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an edning like ROTK EE will suffice.

The ending of the ROTK TE and EE are identical. The last bit of new footage in the EE is during Sam and Frodo's trek to Mt Doom

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