Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Interesting ( ;) )

We trawled the IMDB messageboards for the nerdiest questions about the second Hobbit film, then put them to co-writer Philippa Boyens...

"What does Smaug eat? Since no-one has heard from Smaug in some time, I was wondering how he didn't wither away." tambourine_man36

We toyed with the idea that he eats a lot of domestic animals kept by people unwise enough to live by the mountain. But we also discussed that maybe he is sustained by the gold in some way.


"Peter Jackson's cameo means the drunk guy in FOTR is looking pretty good for his age. Is he one of the Dunedain?" tomfeldpausch

No, he is definitely a hobbit! Possibly with a bit of dwarf in there as well. Pete's cameo in Fellowship was an accident: he was supposed to be a genuine extra in Bree and was given a pipe to smoke, but he couldn't do it, so someone shoved a carrot in his hand. It was so absurd that we had to resurrect it. To answer the question, there must be a bunch of morons who wander the streets of Bree eating carrots.


"What is up with the elven king? His face was rotting away - was he cursed or diseased?"ranran-001

The conceit is that Thranduil has faced the great fire-breathing dragons and been scarred by them, physically and emotionally. He's used the magic of the elves to conceal it. That also perhaps explains what's happened to Legolas' mum.

I thought elves were teetotal Feebane72

Textually, no, we know absolutely that elves can drink. We actually had an argument when we wrote the feasting scene in The Two Towers, where Legolas outdrinks Gimli. I think we can conclude that Elvish wine is a hell of a lot stronger than Rohirrim beer.

"I thought for sure we would get the infamous scene where Gandalf meets Thrain in Dol Guldur... are they going to explain how Gandalf got the key?" benjobuff

It will be in the extended cut. If we start these movies with Gandalf knowing what's in Dol Guldur, you lose tension immediately. Thrain is played by one of the great English actors, Sir Anthony Sher, and he's mad, but coming and going in a really good way.

"What's up with Bombur not getting a line, FFS?" autodude

Bombur is just a man of few words. Mainly because he's got food in his mouth most of the time. Incidentally, only two of the dwarves have children. Gloin, who has Gimli. And Bombur. who has 14. We decided that for dwarf women Bombur is the most sexy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The conceit is that Thranduil has faced the great fire-breathing dragons and been scarred by them, physically and emotionally.

So, how does one manage to get hit by dragon fire in such a way that it doesn't melt you instantly, but enough to just barely rip away one of your cheeks? I imagine it would be a scenario like later in the film, when the dwarves try to protect themselves by hiding behind columns barely large enough to cover their bodies ... oh, wait.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The conceit is that Thranduil has faced the great fire-breathing dragons and been scarred by them, physically and emotionally.

So, how does one manage to get hit by dragon fire in such a way that it doesn't melt you instantly, but enough to just barely rip away one of your cheeks? I imagine it would be a scenario like later in the film, when the dwarves try to protect themselves by hiding behind columns barely large enough to cover their bodies ... oh, wait.

I think that Thranduil's secret wound addition was completely needless in the first place. I don't think they had to invent such a thing just to add one more proof of his fear of outside world and dragons especially. And certainly if 9 dwarves survive Smaug unscathed it is nearly impossible to believe Thranduil could have been hit by a Stormtrooper... I mean a dragon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or he was damaged far more than we saw?

And Thranduil obviously fought more than 1, and out in the open, and not after they were asleep for 60 years (except to read the newspaper to find out about the Battle of Azanilbizar and of Thorin Oakenshield)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe we'll get a scene in the EE where Thranduil disrobes before Thorin and shouts 'BEHOLD!', revealing his scarred body and burned-to-a-crisp lower regions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or he was damaged far more than we saw?

And Thranduil obviously fought more than 1, and out in the open, and not after they were asleep for 60 years (except to read the newspaper to find out about the Battle of Azanilbizar and of Thorin Oakenshield)

Maybe we'll get a scene in the EE where Thranduil disrobes before Thorin and screams 'BEHOLD!', revealing his scarred body and burned-to-a-crisp lower regions?

I smell a reshoot coming if you send these gems to PJ and crew!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can just about cinematically accept the fact that Thrain could not have been discovered prior to the opening of the actual story as that would have set Dol Guldur too early but sadly the way they handle the thing now feels equally silly, Gandalf riding to and fro and making stupid decisions.

And since Gandalf striding off to go to the High Fells in DoS is almost certainly a reshoot of the scene, I wonder for what reason did he depart from the company of Thorin's gang in the original script? Galadriel gave him a telepathic call and told him to go to Dol Guldur, come back to Rivendell and bring some coffee and milk on the way to the White Council as she forgot?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point. If the intention was always for him to get captured, do we presume he just went straight to Dol Guldur as they were entering Mirkwood? I'm guessing this deleted Beorn bit might help clarify what his intentions were. Maybe he went to Rhosgobel first and met up with Radagast?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe he went to Rhosgobel first and met up with Radagast?

I would assume in the AUJ "version", he would have said something like "Look for me at the borders of Mirkwood!, I am needed elsewhere!"

Then cut to Stone Giants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe he went to Rhosgobel first and met up with Radagast?

I would assume in the AUJ "version", he would have said something like "Look for me at the borders of Mirkwood!, I am needed elsewhere!"

Then cut to Stone Giants.

They really messed up any logic of the High Fells scene. No one would be stupid enough to back track over the Misty Mountains for the tomb if he could just check it before crossing the mountains. Would have made much more sense and then have Beorn and Radagast alert him of the dire news from Dol Guldur and then go to investigate. I would have preferred for Gandalf to be captured or near captured and escaping to alert the Council of the real danger confirmed and then the Council mounting an attack against the Necromancer revealed Sauron.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would have made an interesting Post-credits scene in AUJ or a prologue to DOS (it would have been just as long as the one we got..)

Gandalf could have escaped Dol Guldur, fled to Rhosgobel and with Radagast's help sent word to the Coucil members if telepathy link wasn't working.

I know all this is hindsight cleverness but they should have really put some more thought on this Dol Guldur angle from the start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What telepathy are we talking about?

Are you referring to the line that was dropped from AUJ and used for that scene of that defiled statue in DOS?

Yeah. It seems like telepathy again to me and not a flashback of Gandalf remembering Galadriel's words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure that was just a flashback.

Then what a weird flashback it is. Powerful stuff obviously to make him cross the Misty Mountains all over again. ;)

It actually feels almost like Gandalf suddenly thinking "Oh shoot, I forgot to go to the High Fells even though I promised Galadriel I would do it. I was so caught up by the whole Misty Mountains trek it was completely gone from my mind. Oh well. It is good that this painted eye reminded me. I should go! Ta ta dwarfies and hobbitch! Gandalf has some detours to make!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe he went to Rhosgobel first and met up with Radagast?

I would assume in the AUJ "version", he would have said something like "Look for me at the borders of Mirkwood!, I am needed elsewhere!"

Then cut to Stone Giants.

They really messed up any logic of the High Fells scene. No one would be stupid enough to back track over the Misty Mountains for the tomb if he could just check it before crossing the mountains. Would have made much more sense and then have Beorn and Radagast alert him of the dire news from Dol Guldur and then go to investigate. I would have preferred for Gandalf to be captured or near captured and escaping to alert the Council of the real danger confirmed and then the Council mounting an attack against the Necromancer revealed Sauron.

Well it was meant to be in AUJ, so moving it to DOS like that is what caused the geography issues. I thought they were going to put it as a flash back myself.

Again hindsight wisdom would advise to put it in the AUJ EE and find some other way to get Gandalf away from the Company in DoS. Much easier and hassle-free solution in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe we'll get a scene in the EE where Thranduil disrobes before Thorin and shouts 'BEHOLD!', revealing his scarred body and burned-to-a-crisp lower regions?

Would he be anatomically correct?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure that was just a flashback.

Then what a weird flashback it is. Powerful stuff obviously to make him cross the Misty Mountains all over again. ;)

It actually feels almost like Gandalf suddenly thinking "Oh shoot, I forgot to go to the High Fells even though I promised Galadriel I would do it. I was so caught up by the whole Misty Mountains trek it was completely gone from my mind. Oh well. It is good that this painted eye reminded me. I should go! Ta ta dwarfies and hobbitch! Gandalf has some detours to make!"

And that's exactly what happened!!

This whole Dol Goldur storyline is a terrible mess and its clear he writers did not put much thought to it. With all these last minute decisions (making the trilogy, deciding on Azog, freaking about sub-standard green screen visual effects, etc), it's like they said "let's just wing it". Gandalf comes off as a fool in these films.

Even in LotR, when things were in chaos, there seemed to be some defined direction in planning the films out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does seem certain elements would have enjoyed more attention in a duology. Bilbo's backstory and more pointedly, the characterization of the dwarves (well-described in casting calls and supplementary material) have been downplayed in the trilogy. Many of the dwarves are bit players.

Others have been elaborated. We know that the Weathertop and Bree scenes were the result of re-shoots, while Evangeline Lilly, Orlando Bloom, Luke Evans and John Bell each stated that their characters ended up more involved than was originally planned. Azog may not initially been as prominent either.

:mellow:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe we'll get a scene in the EE where Thranduil disrobes before Thorin and shouts 'BEHOLD!', revealing his scarred body and burned-to-a-crisp lower regions?

Would he be anatomically correct?

Would you be surprised if he was not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does seem certain elements would have enjoyed more attention in a duology. Bilbo's backstory and more pointedly, the characterization of the dwarves (well-described in casting calls and supplementary material) have been downplayed in the trilogy. Many of the dwarves are bit players.

Others have been elaborated. We know that the Weathertop and Bree scenes were the result of re-shoots, while Evangeline Lilly, Orlando Bloom, Luke Evans and John Bell each stated that their characters ended up more involved than was originally planned. Azog may not initially been as prominent either.

:mellow:

Double :mellow:

The whole Hobbit production is one big "what might have been" for me. And I haven't even seen the dwarven battle boars of TABA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Such negativity!

I am a Finn! Not Neil Finn but a Finnish person and such gloomy thoughts are our second nature. It is the half-year of soul crushing darkness that even the 3 months of non-stop sun can't banish!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The content of the two film version is pure supposition. They'd have moved at such a swift pace I very much doubt Bilbo and the Dwarves would have been given more development. I see no one is quoting this part of the article:

Another consequence of all these flashbacks occurring in Bilbo's house would have meant an even more extended first act -- and perhaps significant trims to character scenes.

So probably no scene with Balin and Thorin, possibly the invention of golf scene removed. Yes I'm not keen on more Tauriel and Legolas but I'll accept them for the sake of another three hours of film, which is bound to include at least 90 minutes of decent material.

And the 'never venture east' scene could easily be included in the EE. Note how Bilbo mentions Kili's wound in that scene, so obviously the healing shit was planned before last year's pick-ups.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And the 'never venture east' scene could easily be included in the EE. Note how Bilbo mentions Kili's wound in that scene, so obviously the healing shit was planned before last year's pick-ups.

What?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay I'll try and dig it up. Any help would be appreciated...

EDIT: This is the best I can find for now. They showed several takes of it:

http://rebloggy.com/post/the-hobbit-bilbo-baggins-kili-desolation-of-smaug-bard-the-bowman-the-hobbit-de/46193404653

Hopefully it will make the EE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What freaking out about the green screen?

I was referring to the abundance of green screen and the lack of the Middle-Earth we first saw and loved, in my own "special" way ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked it when Middle-Earth was brought to life by New Zealand, miniatures, giant sets, real horses and real armies (partially, but done well) made up of real extras.

I don't like the new Middle-Earth, which is a giant green screen, a bunch of computers, and more green screen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does seem certain elements would have enjoyed more attention in a duology. Bilbo's backstory and more pointedly, the characterization of the dwarves (well-described in casting calls and supplementary material) have been downplayed in the trilogy. Many of the dwarves are bit players.

Others have been elaborated. We know that the Weathertop and Bree scenes were the result of re-shoots, while Evangeline Lilly, Orlando Bloom, Luke Evans and John Bell each stated that their characters ended up more involved than was originally planned. Azog may not initially been as prominent either.

:mellow:

Double :mellow:

The whole Hobbit production is one big "what might have been" for me. And I haven't even seen the dwarven battle boars of TABA.

The reasoning that the shortening of running time would result in a better characterisation of the individual characters is not logical for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does seem certain elements would have enjoyed more attention in a duology. Bilbo's backstory and more pointedly, the characterization of the dwarves (well-described in casting calls and supplementary material) have been downplayed in the trilogy. Many of the dwarves are bit players.

Others have been elaborated. We know that the Weathertop and Bree scenes were the result of re-shoots, while Evangeline Lilly, Orlando Bloom, Luke Evans and John Bell each stated that their characters ended up more involved than was originally planned. Azog may not initially been as prominent either.

:mellow:

Double :mellow:

The whole Hobbit production is one big "what might have been" for me. And I haven't even seen the dwarven battle boars of TABA.

The reasoning that the shortening of running time would result in a better characterisation of the individual characters is not logical for me.

Actually I agree with that. Cutting off the fat and excess would have left room in running time for characterization of the main cast. E.g. no one needed to hear the Great Goblin's song whereas the short snippet of additional footage after that with the different dwarves was actually adding some depth into them. It told us Nori is a bit of a thief and Bofur is the spokesperson with glib tongue. They should just weigh a bit better what to include into these films.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But it was always going to be two films. The Tauriel character was always in the casting calls, along with some Elf prince from Rivendell, suggesting an icky romance was always on the cards. And more importantly, after GDT fucked off it was always PJ at the helm. All your criticisms of the way these films have been made would remain. With two films you might have got less fluff but the busy action sequences would surely have remained - it just would have left even less time to breathe.


You've got to think about what led PJ & co to make three films instead of two.

I think, deep down, we all know the answer to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.