Can AOTC's score be compared to the other Star Wars scores?

[UCFKevin 0]

I don't think so.

Why? The answer is simple.

We haven't heard the full score.

There's just too much missing, too much edited to hell, and too much put in from TPM. It's incomplete.

Of course, this doesn't mean people SHOULDN'T compare this to the other scores, I mean anything's debatable, especially when it comes to Williams and Star Wars.

I just think it's such a huge bummer that this score was so screwed up. And it's doubtful we'll ever hear it the way Williams intended it to be heard.

[scissorhands 16]

I totally agree, UCFK.

When I listened to the soundtrack the first time, I was very disappointed, mainly 'cause I had seen a video in January with Williams in the recording sessions, and the music was incredible, and I thought: if it's only a part, how will be the rest? But that was a coincidence (or not): it was one of the best parts: the Meadow Picnic, when it's played the best love theme of the soundtrack.

So I was disappointed, but I thought there would be missing a lot of tracks. So I was careful with this score.

When we get the complete edition (the sooner the better, please), I'll compare it with the rest of the pentalogy.

Meanwhile, I say it's the worst, but with certain reservations.

[Trumpeteer 302]

There's just too much ... put in from TPM.

Ummmmm, did you read this: http://www.jwfan.net/modules.php?op=modloa...order=0&thold=0

This says (from what is now an official source) that the scenes with the TPM music were not given original music in the first place. So, in my opinion, that argument does not work.

And if you've seen the movie, then you've heard the complete score, pretty much as it was meant to be heard. OK, the end credits were fussed with, many of the bridges aren't good and the last two minutes of music was redone from what was originally planned, but I think it's a good measure of trying to stack it up against the other films.

When I heard the unreleased music from "Return of the Jedi," it didn't change my perspective on the score. That's because the music presented in the film gave me a very good idea of the score as a whole.

But of course, this is just me again ranting about judging a film score on its presentation in the film and not on CD.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Between what we hear in the film and on CD i think we can get a pretty good idea about this score.

Remember, it's still very possible that the Clones/Droids battle was never scored.

Other cues were edited or replaced with TPM music, but most of those are present on the OST.

Stefancos-

[UCFKevin 0]

The fact that the music in TPM didn't replace anything doesn't deter my opinion. It's there and it's inexcusable. I just can't comprehend reusing old music in a movie with the stature of Star Wars. I truly just don't get it. But I guess it's not mine to be gotten.

And I don't know how much I trust whoever's saying that Williams didn't score anything to begin with where the TPM music was used. Official or not, there's just no excuse for it. If Williams didn't score it, in fact, maybe there shouldn't have been music to begin with. Might be pretty interesting and cool to see an action sequence in a Star Wars film without music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with you about the crappy edits etc...etc..., but you stated that the reason we cannot honestly compare AOTC with the other SW scores cause we did not hear the full score.

I disagree with you cause even if we don't have the complete score, we still have enough to form a valid opinion.

Before the great expanded re-releases of the 90's people having been comparing uncomplete soundtracks with each other for a long time.

Stefancos- who doubts a complete AOTC will be released anytime soon.

[UCFKevin 0]

Yeah, but at least it was complete in the MOVIES. AOTC's score isn't complete in the movies at all. We were all told that Williams composed 125 minutes of music for the movie, and then we're told that he didn't do any music for the battles. So somehow, somewhere, someone's lying. I prefer to give Williams the benefit of the doubt in this situation, in that he DID compose something for the battle scenes at the end and the music just wasn't used.

In a way, you have a good argument, but not really. We could hear what we were supposed to hear in the original trilogy, and even TPM to some extent because it was all ORIGINAL music, but that isn't the case with AOTC.

I know, it's just a movie, just music, I should really just relax...

[Ricard 2,244]

We haven't heard the full score.

So why do people insist in comparing the three Indiana Jones scores? (According to your view of things, no one of us has heard the full score to TOD).

Personally I never needed to hear the music on CD in order to judge a score. That's why I consider TOD to be Williams' best, and AOTC... well, I won't insist

PS. In the case of AOTC, we have heard, at least, 90% of the score. And I think 90% is more than enough to make all kinds of comparisons.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah, but at least it was complete in the MOVIES. AOTC's score isn't complete in the movies at all. We were all told that Williams composed 125 minutes of music for the movie...

Well, according to Takis, the film and CD reveal about 120 minutes of new music (so not counting the TPM music or trackeked and looped music in the film)

That leaves just about 5 minutes, which might be for an alternate track, or music from a deleted scene.

I agree with Ricard that we have heard atleast 90 % of the music Williams composed.

Stefancos- who incidentally thinks TOD is much better then AOTC.

[UCFKevin 0]

For the record, I haven't said one single thing about basing opinions and comparing scores on the CD's. I'm talking solely about the score IN the movies themselves.

[stewdog1 50]

Ricard and Stefancos,

The 90% you are referring to is pretty close, so yes, we can compare it to other Star Wars scores.

Granted, I find this score seriously lacking in substance compared to the other Star Wars scores. Maybe I need to listen to it more, as I have only listened to it all the way through 3 times and parts of it a few more times. I just can't get into it.

Unlike the other SW scores, this one doesn't take me to that galaxy far, far away. I don't know what our heroes are up to, like in ESB, because of the lack of motifs, etc. It has the themes, but no the memorable ones that stick with you.

stewdog - Superman

[Ricard 2,244]

For the record, I haven't said one single thing about basing opinions and comparing scores on the CD's. I'm talking solely about the score IN the movies themselves.

OK

[UCFKevin 0]

I guess if you aren't a completist, you could compare the scores to each other...

I dunno. I'm just sore about it, I guess. In reality, I suppose you could compare the scores. I've just negated everything I've been saying previously. I'm going to fade away from existence now...

[Wojo 2,453]

Maybe John Williams really did write 125 minutes of music for Episode II, but Sir George the ( censored ) All-Mighty just opted to either leave certain scenes scoreless, or re-use music from Episode I, music that either made the OST and not the film, or music that was entirely scrapped from Episode I.

Therefore, isn't it possible that because of this whole mess, i.e. Episode II using music from Episode I and Episode VI, that ultimately Episode III will use the *missing* music from the battle scenes, et al, from Episode II, as well as even more un-used music from Episode I?

It boggles the mind...

Maybe someday, when Sir George ( censored ) releases the complete sextology on DVD (hehe, Star Wars and sex in the same sentence...), he'll also show the footage to that five minute-or-so scene from Return of the Jedi that already has music, between Vader's arrival to Death Star II and the droids bickering en route to Jabba's palace.

[UCFKevin 0]

Er...there's no music in AOTC from ANH. Maybe similar themes but not exact music.

[Morn 8]

We can still compare the 1CD version of all the scores. And those 1CD versions tell us that the most important parts of the score are usually on the 1CD so you can get a pretty good idea of the score from just 1 CD.

And I don't think this score lives up to the other 4 Wars scores.

[UCFKevin 0]

I think it could've though. I dunno. I just really loved the score from the CD and thought the rest of the score in the movie would be as good. I think the score is probably one of the weaker parts of the flick. Bummer.

Still a great score, though. Better than most.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

In terms of quality??? No!!!!!

It is the weakest SW score by far!

[Morn 8]

Not by far.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

as a consumer I say hell yes I can compare AOTC to the other Star Wars.

Sorry Kevin, but I don't buy your answer. I have a 70+ min. cd and what I hear isn't top drawer. Ok I will admit that the end title is a great piece.

But the overall score is not.

I like the film AOTC ok. But I was among the first to say the score was weak. Took alot of heat and bullshit from alot of people here at the JW mb.

Its a disappointment compared to the others. Well not so much TPM, cause its a dust collector too.

[Guest]

Hey, to each their own. I can respect your opinion.

[UCFKevin 0]

Whoops......that was me.

[Guest]

I don't think it's fair to even call it a Star Wars score, it's so horrible.

Why John, why?

banghead

The Ghoest- Who can't figure out where Napoleons Ghoest is supposed to go.

[King Mark 3,626]

We can still compare the 1CD version of all the scores. And those 1CD versions tell us that the most important parts of the score are usually on the 1CD so you can get a pretty good idea of the score from just 1 CD.

.

Well,can you make a valid opinion out of the original Polydor release of Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi,or the current release of TOD?

[Hlao-roo 389]

I don't think it's fair to even call it a Star Wars score, it's so horrible.

Why John, why?

banghead  

The Ghoest-  Who can't figure out where Napoleons Ghoest is supposed to go.

Definitely the worst Star Wars score, and, until Minority Report, JW's weakest film score in several years...but "horrible"?

[Morn 8]

We can still compare the 1CD version of all the scores. And those 1CD versions tell us that the most important parts of the score are usually on the 1CD so you can get a pretty good idea of the score from just 1 CD.

.

Well,can you make a valid opinion out of the original Polydor release of Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi,or the current release of TOD?

They aren't 70 minutes, yes?

[Guest]

Hmmm by far??? OK maybe that was pushing it but it is DEFINATELY the weakest. I mean the lack of new themes. The rather "pedestrian" love theme Across the Stars. Not to mention the lack of good leitmotif in spots like the Coruscant Chase. These all add up to major weakness.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

As if this needs to be said that was me.

[Lurker 5]

Attack of the Clones can be compared to the other Star Wars scores. It's not as good, and I find it hard to believe it's part of the same series. I was listening to the fantastic score to Star Wars the other night and was totally swept away by it, despite it being my billionth listening. Clones could never hope to be this good.

The score to Clones though is better than the movie it was written for.

Neil

[UCFKevin 0]

I'll admit, it ain't as good as the originals, but I DO think it's a great score. Granted, there aren't any new themes other than The Love Theme, which I think is beautiful, but I dunno...I think your guys are kinda spoiled, you all expect quite a bit, which is completely understandable, though, given what we've heard from Williams previously. I just don't see how anyone think it's awful or horrible...but......to each their own, right?

[tpigeon 3]

i think AOTC is an extremely good score. do i think it's as good as any of the original trilogy's scores? no. but i think this one is a great addition to the huge body of music that Williams has composed for Star Wars.

it's the fifth in a series. which means it's definitely going to beg comparrison to the first four. that's inevitable. but when dealing with sequels, it becomes harder for us to judge them the same way, because we think we know the territory and how it "should" be. when certain expectations aren't met, than it is deemed as unworthy to bear the name of its predecessor/s.

as for the music, i think it is a very rich score. it has structural similarities to the past scores with a good bit of thematic referrences as well. but despite the ammount of theme usage, it is very different. Filmtracks.com put it very well, saying that the old Star Wars films/scores went more for the space opera melodrama, whereas the new ones don't go for the same feel. they shoot for drama. whether the films achieve that or not is debatable, but the scores sure function as such and in my opinion do a good job. there is no heroism in the score to AOTC. it is much more of a "serious" score, and the orginial Star Wars score was over-the-top heroics and stuff like that, making it harder to compare.

but what makes it easier to compare is the overall richness of it, which is something all the Star Wars scores have in common. thematically, AOTC may not be to par, but it wasn't really meant to be. the lines in the film are very blurred, and so naturally that would reflect in the score, hence the larger use of motifs and mysterious underscore. this score isn't as simple as Star Wars.

personally, i think AOTC is a very layered score, much like the prior SW scores. but it is VERY different from them. i love how Williams explores this new territory with dark underscore and percussion. i think it's great.

so it comes as no surprise that i think AOTC is a wonderful score.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

The score to Clones though is better than the movie it was written for.

If it was John Williams on a Kazoo this would still be the case!

I am joking OF COURSE!

OK seriously. I don't know what happened with the AOTC score. I have my own theory, but I will save that for another thread. Look I just hope John Williams returns to a more CLASSICAL SW style for the third prequel. Since it is going to be the last of them.