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Poltergeist - 25th Anniversary


Faceman

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Is anybody else here hoping for a Poltergeist 25th Anniversary score re-release next year?.... I most certainly am. As much as I don't mind the sound quality of the Rhino release (I have heard far worse), I think they could have done better, and next year would be the perfect time for a 21st century sound upgrade to be released alongside the 25th Anniversary DVD. I mean, both "The Omen" & "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" have much better sound quality, and they are older films, so there is no reason why they can't upgrade Poltergeist's sound quality too.

What does everybody else here think?....

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I personally don't think it's that great of a score, to be honest. The scenes near the end with the whole "Go into the light" stuff, were well scored, no doubt. I really liked the beauty of those parts against the terror of the scene itself -- however, the rest of the score is actually pretty awful. Nothing in it that I'd want to play on the iPod for fun listening... The score CD I have now is quite enough.... but that's just me.

Shoes

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I personally don't think it's that great of a score, to be honest. The scenes near the end with the whole "Go into the light" stuff, were well scored, no doubt. I really liked the beauty of those parts against the terror of the scene itself -- however, the rest of the score is actually pretty awful. Nothing in it that I'd want to play on the iPod for fun listening... The score CD I have now is quite enough.... but that's just me.

Shoes

Well, it does come down to a matter of taste. I mean you don't like Poltergeist and think parts of it are pretty awful. I strongly disagree. I am the same with Williams War of the Worlds. I absolutely can't stand the score; I think it's a load of rubbish. There will be many that like it though. That's what opinions are all about.

The same goes for Jaws. Outside of the 2-note shark theme; I think it's a load of rubbish too. Once again; There will be many that like it though. ;)

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Faceman wrote:

Well, it does come down to a matter of taste. I mean you don't like Poltergeist and think parts of it are pretty awful. I strongly disagree. I am the same with Williams War of the Worlds. I absolutely can't stand the score; I think it's a load of rubbish. There will be many that like it though. That's what opinions are all about.

Exactly!!!!! That's what opinions are all about! I certainly wasn't trying to tell you that you're wrong for liking the Poltergeist score....I was merely stating that our opinions differed on that particular score. Personally, I was only able to enjoy a few parts of it - granted they were the longest cues on the CD, but still.... For your sake (and many others who enjoyed that score) I hope they do re-release it.

In my opinion, any kind of new release for a score is good news, even if I don't personally like the score itself -- it gives a little more credibility to the film score genre, since we're such a small fan community as it is.

And I agree with you 100% on the War of the Worlds -- although, I do enjoy the final track (is it called "Finale" ??). Other than that, the music was completely jumbled and made for a very difficult listen, and not a very enjoyable one.......but again, that's only my opinion.

As for Jaws, I don't think it was a great score from start-to-finish....but then again, I don't personally think that many of JW's scores are great from start-to-finish. JW's scores are SOOOO strong in powerful themes, that I think the remainder of the score gets lost and jumbled and confused. But Jaws had plenty of great moments like "Out to Sea," "The Shark Cage Fugue," and the scene with the first barrel shooting (I forget the cue name, but it's approx 5:30 in length)....so, again, it's all just a matter of opinion.....

And let's please not forget that the Jaws 2-note theme itself is a complete 100% rip-off from Dvorak's "Symphonie No. 9 du Nouveau Monde." Once again, I'm not siging up on this site to just blindly defend Horner, but let's call everything fairly. If Horner had ripped off that 2-note theme for Jaws, he would have been crucified....But that's exactly what JW did, if we're honest....

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Outside of the 2-note shark theme; I think it's a load of rubbish.

;)

What about "Man Against Beast", "The Shark Cage Fugue", "Promenade", "Out to Sea", "Blown to Bits"... you think they're all rubbish? ;)

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I certainly wasn't trying to tell you that you're wrong for liking the Poltergeist score....

I didn't think that at all, don't worry about it. LOL

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And let's please not forget that the Jaws 2-note theme itself is a COMPLETE 100% rip-off from Dvorak's "Symphonie No. 9 du Nouveau Monde." Once again, I'm not siging up on this site to just blindly defend Horner, but let's call everything fairly. If Horner had ripped off that 2-note theme for Jaws, he would have been crucified....But that's exactly what JW did, if we're honest....

How do you know?

Maybe it was a complete ripoff of the first 2 notes of Finlandia?

Anyway...

The Poltergeist score has always been one of my favorite Goldsmith scores. I like the Rhino releaes.

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Well you two are certainly making yourself welcome here...(not you Frosty)

Anyhoo 2007 is supposed to see a special edition DVD and I'm looking forward to that.

And let's please not forget that the Jaws 2-note theme itself is a COMPLETE 100% rip-off from Dvorak's "Symphonie No. 9 du Nouveau Monde." Once again, I'm not siging up on this site to just blindly defend Horner, but let's call everything fairly. If Horner had ripped off that 2-note theme for Jaws, he would have been crucified....But that's exactly what JW did, if we're honest....

That's if Horner could ever write anything that good.

Which he hasn't

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:eek:  

What about "Man Against Beast", "The Shark Cage Fugue", "Promenade", "Out to Sea", "Blown to Bits"... you think they're all rubbish? 8O

Yep, I guess I've just never liked the score. Jaws 2 on the other hand... I do like. I think it's far superior to the original. As I said before, it all comes down to a matter of taste. I like "melodic" Williams, not "noisy" Williams... ala Jaws. Jaws 2 is just so much better structured, it flows more evenly, and I love all of the improvements Williams made to the 2-note shark theme. :)

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Mark wrote:

Well you two are certainly making yourself welcome here...  

You obviously can't appreciate good film music.

Just because JW "borrowed" or "ripped off" Dvorak for the Jaws theme certainly doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the music. Why would you infer that?? Just because I can find a flaw in something doesn't mean that I still don't appreciate it! :) I LOVE the music from Jaws, but I can still point out that it was a total rip...I mean, check out the soundclips: http://sites.estvideo.net/dew/index/2006/0...27-inspirations

I would certainly hope that just because I'm able to point out flaws, wouldn't mean that I'm unwelcome at the site.... I would hope that we could all discuss it open-mindedly (if that's even a word?)... :eek:

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I'm sorry again, Faceman, I don't think it's a matter of taste. "Jaws" and "War of the Worlds", are musically well written and structured.

Well then, it's obviously a matter of "opinion" then because I "disagree" with you, and nothing you say will ever change my mind. Why don't you try commenting on the actual topic I created this time?... :eek::)

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:eek:  

What about "Man Against Beast", "The Shark Cage Fugue", "Promenade", "Out to Sea", "Blown to Bits"... you think they're all rubbish? 8O

Yep, I guess I've just never liked the score. Jaws 2 on the other hand... I do like. I think it's far superior to the original. As I said before, it all comes down to a matter of taste. I like "melodic" Williams, not "noisy" Williams... ala Jaws. Jaws 2 is just so much better structured, it flows more evenly, and I love all of the improvements Williams made to the 2-note shark theme. :)

I agree with that as well...

What about Poltergeist?

I think that the first part of the score was actually better than the whole "into the light" aspect. I always thought that Goldsmith dipped a little much into Debussey mode when it came to "the light"

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Scissorhands wrote:

I'm sorry again, Faceman, I don't think it's a matter of taste. "Jaws" and "War of the Worlds", are musically well written and structured.

They very well might be. I'm not going to argue or defend that statement since I have absolutely ZERO musical talent or knowledge....But even the most well-structured piece of music ever written might not appeal to everyone's tastes. And personal taste is 100% what it's all about - because you can't tell someone who doesn't like the music for Jaws (or any score or music for that matter) that they are wrong and should like it because it's well-structured. You either enjoy it or you don't...it's just that simple.

My personal taste is that I love the music for Jaws, but didn't really enjoy War of the Worlds. But again: just my opinion. :)

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I'm sorry again, Faceman, I don't think it's a matter of taste. "Jaws" and "War of the Worlds", are musically well written and structured.

Well then, it's obviously a matter of "opinion" then because I "disagree" with you, and nothing you say will ever change my mind. Why don't you try commenting on the actual topic I created this time?... :eek::)

No, not a matter of opinion, just a matter of musical training.

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No, not a matter of opinion, just a matter of musical training.

Well, I am not musically trained, and never wish to be, so once again.... :):eek: 8O

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Scissorhands wrote:
I'm sorry again, Faceman, I don't think it's a matter of taste. "Jaws" and "War of the Worlds", are musically well written and structured.

They very well might be. I'm not going to argue or defend that statement since I have absolutely ZERO musical talent or knowledge....But even the most well-structured piece of music ever written might not appeal to everyone's tastes. And personal taste is 100% what it's all about - because you can't tell someone who doesn't like the music for Jaws (or any score or music for that matter) that they are wrong and should like it because it's well-structured. You either enjoy it or you don't...it's just that simple.

My personal taste is that I love the music for Jaws, but didn't really enjoy War of the Worlds. But again: just my opinion. :)

Yeah, I agree, but there is a slight difference.

He said: "I think it's a load of rubbish."

And I think John Williams is a woman. That could be my opinion. Which is not true.

Just say you don't like it. That's the truth.

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It sounds fine on my stereo.

If anything, Rhino needs to redo North By Northwest.

The main issues I have with the Rhino sound quality are the frequency levels and the analog tape hiss level, which "drives me crazy!"

"I'm listening to it on a Sony DTS Surround sound system"

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Scissorhands wrote:

Yeah, I agree, but there is a slight difference.  

He said: "I think it's a load of rubbish."  

And I think John Williams is a woman. That could be my opinion. Which is not true.  

Just say you don't like it. That's the truth.

True enough, but you have to take quotes like "I think it's a load of rubbish" with a grain of salt. Basically, all he's saying is that he personally doesn't like it, which is what you were asking him to say in the first place.

Trust me, I'm not trying to come down on you personally at all here, but I think that the tiny percentage of people who ARE musically trained sometimes seem to look down upon those of us who aren't, and tend to pick apart someone's evaluation of a score. I'm not trained in the least, but I know what I like and what I don't....and never in my life will I ever know whether or not something is well-structured or even "in tune" for that matter... :)

So, I think as long as you don't take "load of rubbish" to mean that it sucks musically; and, instead that it just means that they didn't like it in general, it makes for a lot less arguing over whether or not someone's opinion matters.

Does any of that even make sense???? ...and by the way, I LOVED the "I think JW is a woman" comparison!! HAHA!!

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Whoa... calm down, people... :shock:

If anything, Rhino needs to redo North By Northwest.

The DVD iso score of North by Northwest sounds great, I'm sure they can do something with that (since the new mix was only done recently, I believe - after the CD was released, anyway).

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Yes it is shocking...especially comming from me. But nothing angers me more than people who run around screaming ::sing song:: "This theme was stolen from this one! This theme was stolen from this one!"

It's music. I'm sure that there is some obscure song in the middle of no where that no one has heard that rips off someone else. But do people complain about it?

You can't really have too much freshness except by orchestration, and changing the sound. Which John Williams does.

There is only so much variety... and if you're going to argue that TWO notes from something that sounds completely different, and is meant in a different context are the same... then that's just dumb..

It's like saying "He used the words 'But I' in his poem, but so and so always uses 'but I' so he's stealing that from so and so."

No... there's only so many words you can work with. You're bound to have things that are the same.

Personally, I love my release of Polterguiest. I love certain cues from the score, but I do enjoy watching the film and the music definately adds to it. I just wish Jerry Goldsmith scores could be released in such a way that they sound ...good... they always seem to have soo much hiss.

As for Jaws, it was quite possibly the most intelligent usage of minamlism in a theme EVER. It does everything it's suppose to. It's dark and low in the range... which gives you the impression of something evil and hidden... not to mention below you.

It grows and grows, giving the audience a sense of tension and release, while the person in the film has no idea what's comming.

Just by music we can tell what's gonna happen, and you can play with the audience's fear with the music by tricking them as is done so wonderfully in the film on several occasions.

THe point is... arguing that is dumb, so dont' do it.

Next time I write a piece I'll remember not to use halfsteps otherwise I'll be stealing from Dvorak.

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The thing is, I have the original LP of Poltergeist in very good condition and the quality is actually better then the Rhino CD in terms of the master used (it could almost pass for digitally recorded when transferred to CD, with near to no tape hiss and good frequency levels) that's why I know the Rhino CD could be greatly improved upon. The original LP has fewer tracks, which is a real shame.

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GoodMusician wrote:

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Wow! A little hostile don't you think?? This is what I don't understand. Why in the world people get so defensive, whether they're defending Goldsmith, or JW, or Zimmer, or Horner, or Thomas Newman for that matter.... Musical taste is different for every listener. But the fact that everyone here ENJOYS film score music in the first place puts us all in a very tiny community. And yet, there are those who get so defensive and so hostile, even amongst ourselves. I don't get it?????

In fact, what did I say that was so wrong?? I said that JW ripped the Dvorak piece. So what??? Did I say that JW was a hack for doing so? NO. Did I say that JW is untalented for doing so? NO. Did I even say that JW was wrong for doing so? NO.

JW took Dvorak's piece and expanded upon it beautifully to make a much richer theme -- a theme that made people afraid to go into the ocean -- he did a masterful job!! So, why am I...wait, let me quote some of your wonderfully mature comments here: So, just because I pointed this out, why am I a "fucking moronic prick" or a "complete douche bag" who is basically "waving around [my] self-appointed psuedo-intelligence"???

When did I claim to be intelligent in the least when it came to film music?? All I stated was that JW ripped the Dvorak piece and turned it into something that fit the Jaws film perfectly....and THAT deserves the hostility that you threw out at me??? All I know is that I'm pretty sure that the majority of film score fans can appreciate what I'm saying and can appreciate differences of opinions in a much more mature way than calling someone a "fucking moronic prick." ...but it was nice to meet you, too GoodMusician!! Nice to see you're so welcome to new guests and their opinions.... :)

I think you and I will have some fun on this site!!

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Some people swear that there are some cases where an LP sounds better than a CD.

Although it's been about 15 years I swear the double LP of The Empire Strikes Back had better sound than any of the CD versions. The cues on the LP just had a richer sound to them.

Going back to Poltergeist I think Goldsmith was against adding some of the extra cues on the disc and wasn't happy with the final release.

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THe ROTJ LP sounds better than the SE lol

Oh and Shoes, don't get the wrong idea about me. I'm a nice guy. But nothing irks me more than people who just dance around saying he stole that. That is a henious acusation.

THe hostility is rooteed in this because I went to Stetson, a very good music school here in Florida, and I'm sick and tired of the musical snobbery that people have there and how so they will tear down John Williams because of Jaws and the like. It's annoying, it's unfounded, and it's just plain wrong. If the composer isn't dead, he isn't worth listening to. It's shit.

I'ts music. He didn't steal it. He may have heard it before, but it's a half step. No one steals half steps from anyone else. So get off it.

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There are wrong opinions, believe it or not.

Goodmusician, I understand your anger, but please, lets keep the insults to minimum.

Rabbit--who just said something very moderator-like

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Pretty much anything sounds better than ROTJ SE.  :)

I have to agree there!... The SE has horrid sound quality (my original soundtrack recording of "The Magnificent Seven" has superior sound quality!). In fact when it comes to that release of the score, it's the only one I do not have on my iPod, I just cannot listen to it. Instead I have the far superior sounding Anthology disc on there instead with fewer tracks.

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is 1 angry post out of 955 a safe minimum? :-p

I understand.

If they do release a new version of Polterguiest, I hope i has a little less hiss.

I have the Rhino release as well but the hiss is kinda annoying.

Polterguiest II sounds better than I... is this because the masters are damaged or something... or was it the way he recorded. I've noticed that most of the old John Williams are restored to the point where they sound like they were recorded in modern times, but most old Goldsmith sound fuzzy, and hissy, and just poorly recorded. Is this a mixing problem?

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GoodMusician,

I understand that you are musically trained. It's something I've never done, and that's great. But you need to take each person's thoughts and ideas and separate them. Just because I pointed out the Dvorak piece, don't jump down my throat and automatically lump me into some category of idiots who loves to point out that all film composers are hacks (or something like that). :) Because if you listened at all to what I said, you would have seen that I agree that JW took the Dvorak piece and expanded upon it, using it perfectly....you can't deny that while JW was racking his brain, trying to come up with the perfect sound for Jaws, that he based it off of Dvorak's piece though....But I never said it was wrong or unprofessional or anything negative at all....I simply stated it, and you called me a "fucking moronic prick."

So, here you are, the one who is actually musically-trained, acting like a complete immature ass to a brand new member to the board....not only that, but a brand new member to the board who is just as big of a JW fan as you or anyone else.... All I'm trying to say is check your emotions a little bit and take the time to digest what people are saying before you start cursing them out and trying to kick them off the board.

So, peace man!! I'm not even gonna get mad at the "prick" comment..... :eek:

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Polterguiest II sounds better than I... is this because the masters are damaged or something... or was it the way he recorded. I've noticed that most of the old John Williams are restored to the point where they sound like they were recorded in modern times, but most old Goldsmith sound fuzzy, and hissy, and just poorly recorded. Is this a mixing problem?

To be honest, While I love both scores, I have always regarded Poltergeist II as the better score of the two, it's more melodic for one. Even though that also suffers from tape hiss and fuzz, the recording is louder, which I think really helps. That's one of the main problems with the Rhino CD for me, the music is quieter then the tape hiss.

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Actually, I read what you said, and I still don't agree. You are saying he took it and expanded uypon it, but that is still saying he took the theme which is still WRONG. I'm not trying to kick you from the board, I'm trying to wake you up to the idea that perhaps your very very wrong.

So don't try to make me look like the fool: It won't work.

And I think you shoudl be taking this to PM and not flooding a thread with it.

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GoodMusician wrote:

Actually, I read what you said, and I still don't agree. You are saying he took it and expanded uypon it, but that is still saying he took the theme which is still WRONG. I'm not trying to kick you from the board, I'm trying to wake you up to the idea that perhaps your very very wrong.  

So don't try to make me look like the fool: It won't work.  

And I think you shoudl be taking this to PM and not flooding a thread with it.

Well, if you want to PM me, that's fine....but I really don't see the point. If we disagree, that's fine - no biggie. But your tirade is what made you look like a fool, not anything I tried to say. You probably are an extremely nice guy who loves his music....I have no idea, since I'm new here. But the ability to discuss differences of opinion without flat-out calling people names and cursing all over the place is the only problem I had with your post.

If we don't agree, so what?? It's not the end of the world....I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it, and I'm assuming that you won't either. So, all I'm saying is chill out - if you disagree with me (or flat-out think I'm wrong) we could have discussed it a whole lot more maturely.

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I completely agree....I just didn't realize that standing up to being called a "fucking moronic prick" was spamming....but, by all means we can remove this part of the thread - it's gone slightly off topic. :)

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I'm pretty content with the already rereleased version. But I guess I shouldn't neglect to say that I'm not a huge fan of the score or film anyway. The film is way too uneven and around '82 Goldsmith seemed to be changing . . . for the worse. (With the exception of The Challenge and First Blood). Luckily, he was reborn via the synths of the immediately following years (and I know we're all grateful for that).

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I completely agree....I just didn't realize that standing up to being called a "fucking moronic prick" was spamming

In my opinion, you got off rather lightly, I would have called you far worse. :thumbup:

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