Michael Kamen: He was capable of much more.

[Quintus 5,391]

Okay so he wasn't the most consistent film composer, but his best work was worthy and very memorable - Prince Of Thieves for example, the main theme is superb. I love his orchestration, its very Williamsesque, as in downright magical. Its such a shame that he and his scoring talent died before it found its true opus.

His score to The Iron Giant is one of my faves of his, I love its optimism on an emotional level, but its orchestration is fun and satisfying throughout. A question though:

During the last moment of the movie, musically titled "The Last Giant Piece", the strings playfully build upon the "self-fixing" theme before they are joined by 'something' which makes the music seem so warm and ultimately rewarding. It almost sounds like subtle organ chords, but I don't think it is that particular instrument. So what is it? What instrument/s joins the strings to add that extra and very important level of filmic emotion?

Click on my link and listen at 00.23 secs. That's the additional instrument I'm talking about. For me at least, its inclusion sends a shiver down my spine

link removed by moderator

[QMM 4]

I agree with you very much on Kamen, I've missed him terribly since he died and have been trying to get as many soundtracks as I can of him. Just a brilliant composer

[Olivier 5]

He was a really realy good composer indeed, and seemed to be a very ncie guy too.

I would strongly recommend Mr Holland's Opus (I love "An American Symphony"), Don Juan de Marco (very nice love theme), and Band of Brothers (lots of wonderful passages-- the only one I don't like is the silly song in French).

[King Mark 2,924]

I like Robin Robin and Brazil.Iron Giant seemed kind of boring.

k.M.

[Quintus 5,391]

link removed by moderator

[King Mark 2,924]

wow,it was only a few seconds.You have entire concert recordings in YouTube clips that are allowed yet 3 seconds of a c.d. is removed immediately.What's the difference?

And what's the difference between a You Tube clip and lets say an edit of the football theme I got off the TV(with a bunch of noise and sound effects,why could I not post a You Send it link directly instead of having to PM 50 people?)

K.M.

[Quintus 5,391]

Yep, I'm a regular poster on Empire Magazine online forum which also happens to be the biggest (most commercial) film mag in the UK. They allow links to practically anything, copywrighted mp3's included and they don't ever complain about legal threats being rained down upon them. Perhaps its because they just don't get any....

Is a change in the rules around here not long over due? Entire samples of albums are distributed freely all over the net. Its not like I linked to the entire Iron Giant album. What gives?

[QMM 4]

Click on my link and listen at 00.23 secs. That's the additional instrument I'm talking about. For me at least' date=' its inclusion sends a shiver down my spine

link removed by moderator

It just sounds like the whole orchestra comes in, but an organ does come in with chords.

[pi 0]

eww

[Richard Penna 2,082]

Marc - you need to lighten up with this copyright/linking thing. You're really limiting some of the things we can discuss here.

Please tell me (as King Mark suggested) what the difference is between putting a Yousendit link on these pages as opposed to sending it via PM, which anyone on the board can request.

I echo everything TheGreatEye said - we need some change here. Am I going to get this 4 second clip removed just because it's 'copyrighted' and could prevent the sale of a CD?

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

The link posted was to a full track.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

I love Kamen, but nothing I've ever heard from him was Williamesque.

It was Kamenesque, Kamen never really reminds me of another composer.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I stand corrected - Mark gave the impression it was only about 10 seconds long.

I still stand by my comments above though.

[Red 73]

What was that 4 seconds, that Richuk posted, from?

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Jurassic Park

[Trent B 317]

Kamen's music is pretty good. I for one enjoy his score for X-Men. I personally think that score is underrated.

Edit: I will say that for X-Men having the full score helps the listening experience tremendously.

[Ollie 859]

Kamen left us too early but we still have his music to remember him by.

I would love an official release of his music to From The Earth To The Moon.

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

I got to meet Kamen at Berklee while I was there in '98. He did a Q&A with the composition/film scoring students. A very articulate man who communicated his musical thoughts into words very well, and extremely friendly. RIP.

[QMM 4]

Kamen's music is pretty good.  I for one enjoy his score for X-Men.  I personally think that score is underrated.

Edit: I will say that for X-Men having the full score helps the listening experience tremendously.

It's too bad that, like a lot of his scores, people weren't happy with it which forced him to make it more "actiony" and put more synthesized stuff in it.

Not that he didn't pull it off most of the time, the Helicopter Hijack cue on the full X-Men score is one of my favorite tracks.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

is there a score release to the Iron Giant? There is a Iron Giant soundtrack at a store here, but its all songs except for the last track. Damn

Burga - who only owns one Kamen CD, Band of Brothers

[Miguel Andrade 964]

The saddest thing was that Kamen had his own voice -- sure maybe this or that sounded a bit someone else, but it always sounded his own.

On of my favourite fim scores has to be Mr. Holland Opus.

And his concertos for saxophone and for electric guitar and rock band are unforgettable.

[Incanus 5,519]

Michael Kamen was a wonderful composer whose musical voice is truly unique. Band of Brothers, Robin Hood, Mr. Holland's Opus, Iron Giant and many other great scores flowed from his pen. When he was inspired by a film you could really hear it in the music (well this goes for most composers) which would be something extraordinary. E.g. Band of Brothers is an amazing album from start to finish with such lyrical and melodic beauty. And Kamen truly had his own sound.

Another great album is his symphonic poem The New Moon in Old Moon's Arms which also contains Mr. Holland's Opus- An American Symphony as well.

And even if I like some of Kamen's work he was by no means a composer whose every score is a winner. He composed a lot of scores I do think to be anything special, including the Die Hard and Lethal Weapon series.

Burga, there is a score album for Iron Giant on Varese Sarabande label.

[rocnathan 0]

Personally, I always thought Kamen was at his best when he did stuff like Lethal Weapon, with an orchestra/small band mix. is big orchestral pieces always left me unsatisfied - although I have to admit that I never listened to an entire album. I remember seing a broadcast of a show in Japan that featured people like Joni Mitchell and Bon Jovi playing alongside this huge Japanese orchestra with all the traditional instruments. Beautiful arrangement (from what I remember; that show was in '92).

But I still believe what killed him was that unholy travesty of a Metallica album. Death by musical allergy.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Didn't he also work on The Wall?

[ChrisAfonso 159]

Hey, nothing against S&M!

In fact, when I learned about his demise, I put my dvd in and watched "Nothing Else Matters" as a tribute. R.I.P.

[pete 520]

Yeah I'll second the Saxaphone and guitar concerto plug, they're great pieces.

His Olympic piece "On Wings Of Victory" is also a favorite of mine, great for the gym. Has anybody got his other Olympic piece, "The Fire Within" I think its called??

[King Mark 2,924]

Yep, I'm a regular poster on Empire Magazine online forum which also happens to be the biggest (most commercial) film mag in the UK. They allow links to practically anything, copywrighted mp3's included and they don't ever complain about legal threats being rained down upon them. Perhaps its because they just don't get any....

Is a change in the rules around here not long over due? Entire samples of albums are distributed freely all over the net. Its not like I linked to the entire Iron Giant album. What gives?

I think the rules should be loosened a bit.Of course you can't just post a direct link to complete c.d. tracks or albums,but for discussion sake I see no harm in posting 10 second clips here and there.Or a short hissy recording you got from the TV audio or something(not in any way a c.d. track and technically available to anyone who owns a VCR),that's no worse than a bootlegged concert in YouTube.

If corporations were scanning this MB everyday the trading board would have been shut down a long time ago and most of us would be in prison for admitting at some point that we own bootlegs.

In any case,I find having to PM tons of people for "Sound effect laden and voiced filled crappy edit of Football theme 2" WAAAY too strict.I mean who's going to complain,this piece is not even on a c.d. anyways and the clip is not even useable music.I also got pissed off about the 15 second Olympic bumper I recorded last year.

Of course,I don't know the inner workings of a website or if Ricard is beeing threatened with lawsuits everyday because of our posts.I know he got in trouble for the complete Indy and Star Wars bootlegs you could download from the main page at some point and probaby this is where that rule comes from but between that and short audio clips burried in the MB there's a difference.

In referance to this thread,I recorded the unreleased film version of the Brazil cue Lawry's First Dream on TV(no vocals but a few sound effects) .That's the type of thing I'd like to be able to share with no hassle.

Untill Ricard outright says that he yes can indeed get sued or get JWfan shut down because of a 10 second clip on the MB,then I believe the rule is overparanoid.Even "watched" sites like mugglenet post various video clips and magazine pics that don't belong to them.

sorry for the rant

K.M.

[Goldsmithfan 3]

Didn't he also work on The Wall?

No, but he did work on the orchestral arrangement (and played the piano) for The Final Cut and The Division Bell. Sadly the latter sucked horribly, but he co-arranged with Ed Shearmur so that's an interesting tidbit.

[Ollie 859]

S&M is a very good album.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Burga, there is a score album for Iron Giant on Varese Sarabande label.

ah thks for the info! no chance of getting that here then....damn.

[Quintus 5,391]

I love Kamen, but nothing I've ever heard from him was Williamesque.

It was Kamenesque, Kamen never really reminds me of another composer.

Yeah perhaps I should've been more specific. When I made the comparison I referred to his orchestrations and the way they sound quite 'magical', like those of Williams. Kamen likes to hit the emotion button in the same, almost obvious ways that Williams does. Kamen's strings and wind sections always seem to come in at the right time, just when the listener wants to hear them and I just love how he makes the most out of deep pronounced brass - listen to "The Last Giant Piece" at 00.56 to see what I mean. It may sound minor to you, but I just LOVE that beefy and quite grand sounding hit of brass. Its literally music to my ears! Williams does these sort of things things all the time. I guess I'm talking about emotional payoff.

But I understand what you guys are saying - Kamen's sound is still quite unique to himself.

[Trent B 317]

I really wonder if Kamen was still alive today if he would have scored X-2: X-Men United and X-Men: The Last Stand.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

No, Brian Singer never wanted Kamen on X-Men.

[Quintus 5,391]

I think the rules should be loosened a bit.Of course you can't just post a direct link to complete c.d. tracks or albums,but for discussion sake I see no harm in posting 10 second clips here and there.Or a short hissy recording you got from the TV audio or something(not in any way a c.d. track and technically available to anyone who owns a VCR),that's no worse than a bootlegged concert in YouTube.

If corporations were scanning this MB everyday the trading board would have been shut down a long time ago and most of us would be in prison for admitting at some point that we own bootlegs.

The stupid irony is this: I Limewire'd the track deleted above, after much patience. It was the only track that was found. In fact I was shocked it found it at all. It was my fave cue from that movie, but since listening to it I've ordered the ost from an online store, indeed that 'sample' was enough to spurn me on to want to hear more. I gladly parted with cash for it.

Go figure...

[Trent B 317]

No, Brian Singer never wanted Kamen on X-Men.

Such a shame really. However I can see how Singer wanted Ottman for X-2 since Singer had worked with Ottman before in the past.

[robthehand 3]

Some of Ottmann's music in X2 actually distracted me from the film a bit, espeically some of the parts with the choir.

[Ollie 859]

Ottman's music had temp track written all over it.

After listening to it I had that "been there done that" feeling.

[tpigeon 3]

Ottman's music always has temp track written all over it.

Ted

[Ollie 859]

That's true.

That was my first Ottman score so I had no idea.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Didn't he also work on The Wall?

No, but he did work on the orchestral arrangement (and played the piano) for The Final Cut and The Division Bell. Sadly the latter sucked horribly, but he co-arranged with Ed Shearmur so that's an interesting tidbit.

I could swear he's credited on The Wall somewhere. The album, I mean.

[Romão 1,931]

Kamen left us too early but we still have his music to remember him by.

I would love an official release of his music to From The Earth To The Moon.

http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Moon-1998-Tele...ie=UTF8&s=music

This album does have the main and end titles.

[Ollie 859]

I know, I meant the actual scores to the episodes he worked on.

[Goldsmithfan 3]

Didn't he also work on The Wall?

No, but he did work on the orchestral arrangement (and played the piano) for The Final Cut and The Division Bell. Sadly the latter sucked horribly, but he co-arranged with Ed Shearmur so that's an interesting tidbit.

I could swear he's credited on The Wall somewhere. The album, I mean.

I just rechecked and it said that he did do some orchestration. I guess seeing Bob Ezrin listed under orchestration for 'The Trial' is what really threw me. Looks like I owe you a coke!

[pi 0]

Ottman is so bad and thats all there is to say. My opinion on this matter, like Joeinar's always seems to be, is unwaivering, and of course one hundred percent true.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251]

But you don't have anywere near the credentials that JoeinAr has.

I mean no one knows who you are and you have a Zimmer avatar for goodness sake!

[Ollie 859]

Indeed.

[Red 73]

Zimmer enthusiasts can't be trusted.

[Incanus 5,519]

Shame that there was no actual score release for From the Earth to the Moon. The series had a pretty impressive collection of composers working on it. And there were wonderful scores in there besides Kamen's.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I think Ottman's generally a good composer, but I find a major weakness in coming up with themes. The main theme from X-Men 2 seems almost amateurish to me, and the new 'personal' theme from Superman Returns is just so... simplistic (and a rip from JNH).

[Romão 1,931]

the new 'personal' theme from Superman Returns is just so... simplistic (and a rip from JNH).

Finally...I thought I was the only one who had noticed this.