New Williams and old Williams

[nicholas 1]

I have been a follower of John Williams' music since Star Wars (and I STILL call it that), though I was first converted to his genius by Close Encounters (one of his greatest scores still). However, I do not subscribe to the generally-held view - or perhaps the most forcibly presented one, which may or may not be the same thing - that his best music was his earlier, so-called "classic" stuff. As I have already made clear on other posts, I consider Revenge of the Sith, Munich and War of The Worlds as the equal of anything else he has produced (I do have a problem with Memoirs of a Geisha, however - there just seems no theme quite memorable enough for me).

Are people suffering from a mis-judgement caused by nostalgia? I remember, for example, how the first reviews of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (or Sorcerer's Stone as my American friends refer to it) were met with at best indifference and even disapointment. The concensus was that it lacked "magic." Yet now it is, quite rightly, considered a great.

Are we juding this music objectively do you think?

[Romão 1,931]

Williams has produced some of his greatest work in the last 15 years. I don't favor one period over the other, but I do think his latest output is severely underestimated for not belonging to as many inconic movies, which is far from being Williams fault.

[King Mark 2,924]

It doesn't help that his most of his scores since 1995 are heavily dialed down in the film mixes and drowned in sound effects,sometimes even music for dialogue scenes is unhearable(the proof is even the volume of rear DVD rips have to be raised to unbearable hiss level),like directors were now "ashamed " to put it to the forefront,leading to somekind of paradoxal unsatisfying underdramatic effect when you see the film.I have noticed that since Seven Years in Tibet,and has plagued a lot of later Spielberg films(Lost World,A.I.),the Prequels and Harry Potter 2 and 3.

I remember in such films as Indiana Jones,Star Wars OT,E.T. Superman and Hook,you left the theater feeling you just left the concert hall as much as seeing a movie

K.M.

[crocodile 6,294]

There was no such problem with Memoirs, wasn't it?

Karol

[King Mark 2,924]

Memoirs and HPPS..and maybe Terminal are the exception.

the fact that the Memoirs score is the first JW score you could really hear in a film in a long time has made it seem better thasn it is I think.

K.M.

[crocodile 6,294]

Yes, Sorcerer's Stone really showcased its score, like it was actually proud that Williams was doing it. It was very present all the time. I liked that.

Not so with SW anymore. Where are the times when the scores to SW were the pride and not another sound effect? It would help a lot more had it been used more prominently.

Karol, who thinks that even with this in mind ROTS score still makes its film almost worthwhile.

[King Mark 2,924]

Yes the music in HPPS is "relatively" loud compared to other films from 1995-2005,BUT it is not Indiana Jones loud or ESB loud or Hook loud if you are old enough to have seen those in cinema.You can "hear" all the notes in HPPS,but you do not "feel" the music like those other scores I mention,wich was an essential part of the 1977-1995 JW experience.

I remember the Superman Main Titles were SO loud in the theaters is was like cranking up your stereo at max volume and you almost had to cover your ears.

K.M.

[Romão 1,931]

I had that very same feeling Mark was talking about (being in a concert hall), when watching Memoirs. That movie is one of the best showcases of Williams' music I have ever seen.

[robthehand 3]

Memoirs is a fine example of a fundamentally flawed film that works because of its score. The score really carries the film, and makes it work.

And when listening to the score after seeing the film, I get all sorts of images in my head - images of the great film Memoirs isn't.

[crocodile 6,294]

Yes the music in HPPS is "relatively" loud compared to other films from 1995-2005,BUT it is not Indiana Jones loud or ESB loud or Hook loud if you are old enough to have seen those in cinema.You can "hear" all the notes in HPPS,but you do  not "feel" the music like those other scores I mention,wich was an essential part of the 1977-1995 JW experience.

I remember the Superman Main Titles were SO loud in the theaters is was like cranking up your stereo at max volume and you almost had to cover your ears.

K.M.

Unfortunetly, I haven't had the opportunity to expierence them like this, not counting the fact that my mom was pregnant when she went to see TESB. I don't need to add that this particualar score gave me chills when I first heard it several years later. It still does. Maybe the sound mixing had something to do with that.

Karol, who thinks it was the moment when he became JW fan

[King Mark 2,924]

Well,all JW scores used to be like that.I agree about Geisha,and that alone is enough to make you leave the theater with a smile,even is Sayuri's Theme is not the greatest ever,because I think orchestral music can really shine with those huge theater sound systems.

K.M.

[crocodile 6,294]

But back to the main topic...

I think that, in a way, Williams is as good in what he does as he was in his heyday. He is now more efficient and applies "less is more" approach. It isn't as satysfying listen, but from clearly dramatic point of view, Williams hasn't lost it.

Because if he had, I think that ROTS movie wouldn't be as successful with as many people. They do not have to be aware of the music, of course. It has nothing to do with memorability. Lucas owes him once more.

Karol

[Ollie 859]

Films have changed and Williams has gotten older and his style has changed.

His older scores were rich with themes and motifs that were woven thru out the cues, his recent works are not as thematic. They are good but show signs of a composer who has perhaps matured in his approach, that can be both good and bad.

While Goldsmith streamlined his music as the years wore on, perhaps recognizing how simple films had become, Williams has still managed to write complex cues for the most part and stay on top of his game.

Most of his recent film choices appear to be hand picked assignments that he truly wants to do, so we probably won't see another Witches Of Eastwick or Spacecamp. Maybe he'll return to Harry Potter or maybe Spielberg will come up with some fun popcorn flick that Williams can have some fun with.

[crocodile 6,294]

There isn't simple "right and wrong" when it comes to scoring films. That's why you can as well criticize the old approach for being too intrusive or whatever. There is too much "1975-83 is the best" bigotry around for my taste. Maybe too many things are taken for granted? And this is not a good thing, you know.

Maybe we should analyze the old era again from a critical standpoint and see to what conclusions we would arrive?

Just a thought, not another provocation (as the purists may perceive it).

Karol