Composer Threads James Newton Howard thread

[Luka 242]

2 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

An album for Light & Music is released.

41 minutes. It's a nice album. Like it quite a lot.

 

https://music.apple.com/nz/album/light-magic-original-soundtrack/1640179298

Doesn't seem to be available in my region  

[LSH 968]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

The clips sound completely synth

 

Sounds more synthy than I remember it being in the show in fact. I think most, if not all of it is there; I was only really seeking out a handful of cues and they're all there.

[enderdrag64 624]

Yeah from what I remember the show was pretty light on music actually, every episode only had a handful of cues

[DangerMotif 1,037]

https://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/08/25/soundtrack-album-for-disneys-light-and-magic-to-be-released/

[LSH 968]

There are a few genuinely good moments - the melody in the final track is lovely. But it's all spoiled by a terrible sampled orchestra. I thought he was good at this sort of thing!

 

I guarantee you, if I had the sheets, I could MIDI program it more convincingly.

[Marc 766]

Had a blast transcribing and recording this fantastic action cue 
 

 

[WampaRat 1,105]

This gem will finally be available again digitally on Friday:

[Richard Penna 3,679]

The 80s style flying theme has its charms but overall it's just a fuctional score in my book. I don't even have the entire album in my playlist.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

Well, JNH is a mostly functional composer.

[Luka 242]

9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Well, JNH is a mostly functional composer.

I wonder what you guys mean by functional?

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

His scores do what they are supposed to do, which is to support the film. But away from the film they're rarely interesting. 

[Luka 242]

3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

His scores do what they are supposed to do, which is to support the film. But away from the film they're rarely interesting. 

Hmm I see, but I kinda don't agree with that. JNH is one of the composers which I love listening to the scores on their own the most, without the movie. But maybe that's just a personal preference.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

That's great for you! These are all just personal opinions, of course. 

[Edmilson 7,426]

The only JNH scores I think are completely uninteresting outside the movie (or, heck, even within the movie itself) are those suspense thriller scores like The Bourne Legacy, Salt, Nightcrawler, Michael Clayton (how come that was nominated for an Oscar and not Maleficent or King Kong?!? ), Concussion, etc.

 

Really, I dunno why he insists on doing these movies if their scores are just going to be electronic textures and brooding strings for 2 hours.

[Luka 242]

4 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The only JNH scores I think are completely uninteresting outside the movie (or, heck, even within the movie itself) are those suspense thriller scores like The Bourne Legacy, Salt, Nightcrawler, Michael Clayton (how come that was nominated for an Oscar and not Maleficent or King Kong?!? ), Concussion, etc.

 

Really, I dunno why he insists on doing these movies if their scores are just going to be electronic textures and brooding strings for 2 hours.

Completely agree with that, and the same goes for John Powell (another of my favourite composers). He has so many amazing scores, but then some thriller-action or cheap love-romantic comedy movies that has really boring and uninteresting music.

[publicist 4,643]

8 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

His scores do what they are supposed to do, which is to support the film. But away from the film they're rarely interesting. 

 

That's a half-truth. His themes and/or motifs often are very memorable, when he gets the spotlight in a crucial scene, he's up there with the best of them.

 

The downside: he's by his very nature submissive to the filmmaker's wishes, even when they're stupid and ill-considered (meaning obvious temp-track rewriting or carpeting long sections with atmospherics). The truth is that is exactly the reason for his longevity in the business.

 

As for the question of Edmilson, that's easy: he does these movies because they are either simply good and he wants them on his resume or because he's chummy with the makers or he's just happy not doing stuff like 'King Kong 2' (probably a fan dream) all the time.

[Thor 7,490]

The argument of 'functional' could possibly be applied to JNH's work in the last 15 years or so, where he adhers to contemporary stylings and trends that don't suit him well, no doubt guided by the filmmakers and/or the climate of our times. There are exceptions in this period, of course, where you can hear that he's still "in there" somewhere, but it mostly comes out in bits and pieces within said scores (a rare example of him being brilliant all the way through in recent times -- and not just bits and pieces -- is A HIDDEN LIFE, of course).

 

However, if you go back beyond that period, the argument of 'functional' has no bearing whatsoever. His 80s, 90s and early 2000s work is ripe with brilliant scores that go deep into the psychology of the characters and settings while at the same time being beautiful musical compositions in and of themselves. The absolute opposite of "merely functional".

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

2 hours ago, publicist said:

 

That's a half-truth.

 

Of course, but where's the fun in not exaggerating on a message board?

[GerateWohl 4,350]

James Newton Howard is for me the same composer category like James Horner, where I personally find probably 10% at max of his scores musically interesting. But these then I hold in high esteem.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

Well said. JNH's Signs is a masterpiece, but I can't come up with a score from Horner that's as good.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

14 hours ago, Edmilson said:

The only JNH scores I think are completely uninteresting outside the movie (or, heck, even within the movie itself) are those suspense thriller scores like The Bourne Legacy, Salt, Nightcrawler, Michael Clayton (how come that was nominated for an Oscar and not Maleficent or King Kong?!? ), Concussion, etc.

 

Really, I dunno why he insists on doing these movies if their scores are just going to be electronic textures and brooding strings for 2 hours.

 

I agree on all of those except Nightcrawler - I do like that one. He probably does those because he has a working relationship with a director or producer.

 

Also he'll probably see those scores as far more than just textures/brooding strings for 2 hours - there will be details and things he's putting in which we barely notice but which give him creative satisfaction.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It helps that I love those Gilroy brothers movies (Clayton, Roman Israel, Nightcrawler, Bourne, etc.) that I don't mind they aren't meant for standalone listening.

[LSH 968]

He does strike me as somebody who is incredibly easy to work with, agreeable, and will do exactly as he is told. He's never had a score rejected as far as I know?

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

He wouldn't tell us if he had.

[leeallen01 2,135]

Just finished my latest Oil Painting in my series of Composer paintings. Had to do JNH.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

Impressive!

[publicist 4,643]

15 hours ago, LSH said:

He does strike me as somebody who is incredibly easy to work with, agreeable, and will do exactly as he is told. He's never had a score rejected as far as I know?

 

JNH acknowledged in several interviews that he was quite an asshole and hard to work with early in his career. He didn't mention exactly when he changed, but i guess when he bedded Babs Streisand and was her choice as John Barry replacement for 'Prince of Tides' he was a different person. Streisand is famously not a person you disagree with. Btw, the score for 'Prince of Tides' is mushy and awful.

[filmmusic 1,825]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

Btw, the score for 'Prince of Tides' is mushy and awful.

[Thor 7,490]

I like PRINCE OF TIDES. Not top 10 JNH, but probably top 20.

[publicist 4,643]

Yeah, it's what people that like to watch movies like 'Prince of Tides' consider romantic.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

Can somebody shed some light on this, if not all?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

On 09/12/2022 at 9:29 AM, publicist said:

Yeah, it's what people that like to watch movies like 'Prince of Tides' consider romantic.

Perhaps Streisand should have let John Barry finish what he started.

[Tom 4,650]

On 09/12/2022 at 12:45 AM, publicist said:

 

JNH acknowledged in several interviews that he was quite an asshole and hard to work with early in his career. 

 

[filmmusic 1,825]

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this, but here you are.

from the composer's facebook:

 

[Thor 7,490]

Yeah, I saw it. Good that does shout-outs to fellow composers, but that score did nothing for me, I'm afraid.

[GerateWohl 4,350]

While listening to "Wyatt Earp" I thought, that I like about him, that He is or at least was capable of writing big classical adventure scores like this or King Kong or Dinosaurs. One reason why I prefer him over Thomas Newman for example.

But somehow, even in my most beloved scores of JNH there doesn't seem to be what I would call humable melodies that stick in your head. The themes are often recognisable in a way. Yes. But If I compare Wyatt Earp with for example Dances with Wolves these themes stick in my head for a long time. Happens more or less never with James Newton Howard. 

JNH is a good composer but not really a hit writer. My personal impression. By the way like most others as well. 

[filmmusic 1,825]

30 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

While listening to "Wyatt Earp" I thought, that I like about him, that He is or at least was capable of writing big classical adventure scores like this or King Kong or Dinosaurs. One reason why I prefer him over Thomas Newman for example.

But somehow, even in my most beloved scores of JNH there doesn't seem to be what I would call humable melodies that stick in your head. The themes are often recognisable in a way. Yes. But If I compare Wyatt Earp with for example Dances with Wolves these themes stick in my head for a long time. Happens more or less never with James Newton Howard. 

JNH is a good composer but not really a hit writer. My personal impression. By the way like most others as well. 

Yeah, I generally agree.

One JNH theme that has stuck in my mind , is the love theme from The Prince of Tides (which became a song after all, or was it a song originally?). Have you listened to that?

(it starts at 0.49'')

 

[GerateWohl 4,350]

@filmmusic: Never listened to Prince of the Tides. Thanks for pointing to this. It is beautiful.

But even though this is a song melody, I have also an issue with a lot of Streisand's song melodies, that I cannot keep them in my head.

Big exceptions are all the Yentl songs and Hello Dolly. But most of her songs are not really catchy tunes for me. Same here.

[Thor 7,490]

PRINCE OF TIDES is JNH in undilluted romantic Barry mode, and enjoyable for what it is -- probably a love letter to his girlfriend Barbara Streisand at the time. But it's not really typical him, and I don't find myself returning to it very often.

[mrbellamy 6,275]

The main theme is the stickier one for me from Prince of Tides

 

 

 

Pretty simple but effective. It always makes me think of a David Copperfield special when he used it for his "snow" trick lol 

 

 

 

[GerateWohl 4,350]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

The main theme is the stickier one for me from Prince of Tides

 

But that is what I mean. These three notes repeated three time at the beginning. Nobody who wants to write a sticky melody would do it that way. I mean, yes, if you repeat that three notes many times the probability for this motif to stick in you head is three times higher. But it does not really result in what I would call an interesting  tune. JNH works brillantly with these kinds of little motifs. But the tune is not really, what I call a hit tune. Something like Williams' love theme from The Terminal for example. This here is kind of an emulation of such a tune with everything, that belongs to it except the tune itself.

[LSH 968]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

PRINCE OF TIDES is JNH in undilluted romantic Barry mode, and enjoyable for what it is -- probably a love letter to his girlfriend Barbara Streisand at the time. But it's not really typical him, and I don't find myself returning to it very often.

 

From JNH's 1991 output, I much prefer the likes of The Man In The Moon and My Girl (which is desperately crying out for a [debut] release). HINT

 

My god, he was quite the player, wasn't he?

 

Wasn't he married to one of the Arquette sisters?*

 

*Yes, it was Rosanna. (Oh, I feel a song coming on!)

 

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, LSH said:

undilluted romantic Barry mode

 

Yeah, and I'm glad he never tried to emulate that style again. JNH did a lot of romantic dramas and Rom-Coms in the 90s and I much preferred the style he developed for those. Lovely, soothing stuff that was simple but emotional... 

 

My Best Friend's Wedding is my favourite. It does that 'small orchestra doing sad chords and nice noodly woodwinds' kind of thing that I love about the genre in the 90s. 

[Luka 242]

 

 

This has to be one of my favourite Action (almost horror, in that case) cues ever!

Actually, JNH is probably my favourite composer for action cues. (I'm thinking of King Kong and Maleficent, for example, that have amazing action music).

 

I love how his action music is very much thematic and not-boring to listen to! With a lot of stuff going on at the same time in the orchestra.

[1977 1,743]

9 hours ago, Thor said:

probably a love letter to his girlfriend Barbara Streisand at the time

 

Wow, now that's something I did not know.

[Richard Penna 3,679]

13 minutes ago, Luka said:

This has to be one of my favourite Action (almost horror, in that case) cues ever!

Actually, JNH is probably my favourite composer for action cues. (I'm thinking of King Kong and Maleficent, for example, that have amazing action music).

 

I love how his action music is very much thematic and not-boring to listen to! With a lot of stuff going on at the same time in the orchestra.

 

Not the first time I've seen that cue mentioned, and I just don't get why. It comes across to me as 8 minutes of fairly random 'stuff' happening with the orchestra - no structure or standout ideas.

 

I prefer his more melodic dramatic side, such as his earlier M. Night material, over his action/adventure scores.

[Knight of Ren 789]

1 hour ago, Luka said:

This has to be one of my favourite Action (almost horror, in that case) cues ever!

Actually, JNH is probably my favourite composer for action cues. (I'm thinking of King Kong and Maleficent, for example, that have amazing action music).

 

I love how his action music is very much thematic and not-boring to listen to! With a lot of stuff going on at the same time in the orchestra.

I agree that the Hunger Games scores have some fantastic action writing by the composer, being this one and Air Raid Drill some of my favorites from the bunch. I think it also helps that I really like these scores, and JNH is one of my favorite composers, but I think he truly excels when he's writing big action/fantasy orchestral music.

 

In fact, one of my favorite cues ever is The Great Eatlon, and is definitely top-tier JNH, but I could also throw in there King Kong, Maleficent, The Last Airbender, Fantastic Beasts or Waterworld to name a few.

 

 

But he also excels when he's allowed to create more emotional, dramatic pieces, with scores such as his work for the Shyamalan movies, A Hidden Life, parts of The Hunger Games, or even more melodramatic ones like Water for Elephants and I Am Legend. Such a versatile composer! For example, I love how this track starts with the breathy Mockingjay motif and then builds into the emotional Hunger Games theme, making for a quite impactful and emotional piece.

 

 

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

On 27/02/2023 at 2:34 PM, GerateWohl said:

But somehow, even in my most beloved scores of JNH there doesn't seem to be what I would call humable melodies that stick in your head.

 

You're kidding, right?

 

 

 

[Mr. Who 919]

1 hour ago, Knight of Ren said:

I agree that the Hunger Games scores have some fantastic action writing by the composer, being this one and Air Raid Drill some of my favorites from the bunch. I think it also helps that I really like these scores, and JNH is one of my favorite composers, but I think he truly excels when he's writing big action/fantasy orchestral music.

 

In fact, one of my favorite cues ever is The Great Eatlon, and is definitely top-tier JNH, but I could also throw in there King Kong, Maleficent, The Last Airbender, Fantastic Beasts or Waterworld to name a few.

 

 

But he also excels when he's allowed to create more emotional, dramatic pieces, with scores such as his work for the Shyamalan movies, A Hidden Life, parts of The Hunger Games, or even more melodramatic ones like Water for Elephants and I Am Legend. Such a versatile composer! For example, I love how this track starts with the breathy Mockingjay motif and then builds into the emotional Hunger Games theme, making for a quite impactful and emotional piece.

 

 

I’m also a big fan of JNH’s hunger games scores and he is one of my very favourite composers. The use of themes in cues like air raid drill is great, especially when the healing theme comes in on dramatic violins towards the end before the brass enters again at the end. I also really like the quieter aspects of the score, like president snow’s material.
 

I enjoyed the first score and you can tell that JNH had loads of ideas within a short timeframe, some of which ended up not being used (Katniss Afoot, which then ended up in the third score). I think that in the second and in the following 2 scores, he really goes much further, while building on the sonic and thematic aspects of the first score.

[leeallen01 2,135]

I truly believe that if JNH's films were as commercially successful as Williams' films were, he'd be similarly known and celebrated the world over.

 

In my opinion, he has created works on the level of Williams' best, but Williams has (of course been a god of composing) but also a part of some huge cinematic firsts, like Jaws (first real blockbuster) Star Wars (first space fantasy film of its kind) Superman (first major Superhero film) Jurassic Park (first major use of creature CGI) etc etc. 

 

 

In my opinion, JNH's Signs score is as masterful as Williams' Jaws, his Village score is as masterful as Schindler's List, his King Kong score is as masterful as many of Williams' action adventure scores, his Dinosaur, Treasure Planet, Maleficent Scores are as masterful as Williams' Star Wars, Superman etc.

 

Personally, I think his Unbreakable score is the best Superhero score ever written. (And the film the best of its genre too).

 

I know many here will be calling me blasphemous for my comparisons to Williams, but that's what I believe.

[Knight of Ren 789]

I agree for the most part. He's done so many great works, but sometimes he carries the burden of having done great scores for bad or mediocre films, which in comparison with Williams, makes him less recognizable for the big audience. I wouldn't say he's superior to Williams, but he has definitely done some scores that are on par with some of Williams best, and those @leeallen01 mentioned are proof of it.

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

I’m also a big fan of JNH’s hunger games scores and he is one of my very favourite composers. The use of themes in cues like air raid drill is great, especially when the healing theme comes in on dramatic violins towards the end before the brass enters again at the end. I also really like the quieter aspects of the score, like president snow’s material.
 

I enjoyed the first score and you can tell that JNH had loads of ideas within a short timeframe, some of which ended up not being used (Katniss Afoot, which then ended up in the third score). I think that in the second and in the following 2 scores, he really goes much further, while building on the sonic and thematic aspects of the first score.

Yeah, that saga is filled with so many great musical ideas, and the first entry really feels like a first draft of what would be later improved on the following sequels, but I like that he was able to bring back some of the minor motifs from the first score into the other ones.