Composer Threads James Newton Howard thread

[GerateWohl 4,337]

10 hours ago, Muad'Dib said:

 

You're kidding, right?

 

 

 

No, I am not. It is good adventure music, but nothing that keeps going through my head, when I leave the cinema. As I said, they are often recognizable, means I would recognize many of them, when I hear them again. But when I look at examples like Dances with Wolves or Raiders of the Lost Ark that is, at least in that regard a completely different league.

If you hummed the melodies from your examples here still for hours after watching the movie you have a very different feeling for melodies than I have.

[Thor 7,465]

8 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

I truly believe that if JNH's films were as commercially successful as Williams' films were, he'd be similarly known and celebrated the world over.

 

I don't think you should feel too bad. JNH has been an A list composer for 30+ years. There are only two other film composers in history that can really rival Williams'  worldwide popularity (Zimmer and arguably Morricone), so it isn't necessarily realistic or desirable to compare him with that.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

I've never understood what's so good about these three Disney scores.

[leeallen01 2,133]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I've never understood what's so good about these three Disney scores.

 

 

 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

I actually agree that as a preteen who saw all those Disney films in theaters, the scores didn't really stick out to me the way John Williams always did. I can appreciate some things about them now but as a kid they didn't grab me. I think the Treasure Planet example is a good illustration of the kind of thing I've struggled with JNH and many other composers where you get a fantastic hook but it never really goes to the next level. That's the thing that always set Williams apart at his best. 

 

But everybody's different and I think all of us agree that JNH is a gifted melodist. I think this is an interesting question, though, because I totally get the argument GerateWohl is making about how these themes don't always sink in. I think around that early 2000s era, the one that actually stood out to me as a kid more than the Disneys was "Flying" from Peter Pan. That's the JNH movie where I remember waiting for the credits to see who did the music. 

 

 

 

 

I also would say Fantastic Beasts, the first one especially, had some great examples of him putting on his "John Williams hat" and excelling with an abundance of catchy melodies that aren't necessarily just hooks. I'll never forget listening to the soundtrack the first time and he explodes into that waltz in "The Erumpent" out of nowhere. I mean the music had been getting better and better as the album went along but I honestly didn't know he had pastiche like that in him. 

 

 

 

But that's only meant to be fleeting. 

 

I'd also say the "Kowalski Rag" is the closest he's really gotten to stretching out a melody the way Williams does routinely, moreso than the Beasts theme. In the Potter world I think it can stand about eye level with a piece like "Dobby the House-Elf."

 

 

Again the problem is it barely factors into the score whatsoever. Maybe that's why it reminds me of Dobby's theme lol. As an album track, though, it makes me wonder about JNH's unlocked potential even after all these years. 

 

I could also shout out this theme in Huntsman: Winter's War which I think is strong. Although when he really brings it out here, the harmony and orchestration are a little bland imo. So I think that's an example of how a potentially distinct melody can kinda leave me cold with a generic treatment. Then again I'm sure others find it simply beautiful. It's very nice but I prefer it in its solo settings.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Thor said:

I don't think you should feel too bad. JNH has been an A list composer for 30+ years. There are only two other film composers in history that can really rival Williams'  worldwide popularity (Zimmer and arguably Morricone), so it isn't necessarily realistic or desirable to compare him with that.

 

I think the biggest issue for JNH isn't that he hasn't had beloved films in his career, but there just isn't the same correlation between his most popular scores and his most popular films, which Williams and Zimmer have achieved to a large extent.

 

For example The Sixth Sense theoretically could have had a score that resonated like Jaws, but it's the later Shyamalan scores people like more. The Dark Knight was certainly remembered by many audience members for its score...just ask anybody and they'll know it's a Hans Zimmer movie lol. The Hunger Games films, huge! Catching Fire was an especially massive hit, it actually beat Frozen at the US box office but the soundtrack wasn't nearly as lucky. I don't think Home Alone is so much more iconic as a film than Pretty Woman and that's the reason people aren't humming "He Sleeps" as much as "Somewhere In My Memory". I feel like King Kong has at least enough regard as a film that the music could have been remembered at the level of something like Hook but it's not, really...and it's still considered one of his top scores. Even Space Jam got its legacy sequel, it's still beloved in a sea of crappy 90s nostalgia, but nobody cares about the score, only the songs.

 

Some of this is luck and circumstance but I also think Williams and Zimmer are way more likely to go for the throat in ways that have paid off royally but also earn them more criticism. JNH is more cautious as a dramatist. He's had some chances to be more of a titan but as you say Thor he's had a dream career. 

[leeallen01 2,133]

That main theme from Huntsman: Winter's War is one of the best themes he's ever written in my opinion.

 

It is developed brilliantly throughout the score; particularly with its length. It's a real long-form melody that goes on and on with rich direction. Like a classic theme of old. It reminded me of my thoughts on Giacchino's Yorktown theme. A gorgeous, long-form theme that sings in the score. A classic theme.

 

 

I do like that JNH has scored films directly associated or indirectly with Williams works, e.g. Potter and Beasts, and I believe JNH's first Fantastic Beasts score sits comfortably with Williams three Potters in quality and thematic writing.

 

As for Peter Pan in comparison to Williams Hook, for me, JNH's is the superior Peter Pan score.

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

Ooooh yess. The main theme from The Huntsman is incredible. Easily one of his most beautiful. Overall that score is very strong. It's better than it's predesessor.

 

And his Peter Pam score is also very good indeed. Some people are put of by the drums etc in "Flying", but I feel it's one of his most fun cues.

 

And as said before his Disney scores are spectacular. I think the opening of Dinosaur is one of the times I was aware of the music in a film when I was young. The way it builds over almost 3 minutes is just great.

 

I also feel that his Hunger Games score all have some amazing parts and I can't wait to hear what he does with the prequel later this year.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

49 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I think the biggest issue for JNH isn't that he hasn't had beloved films in his career, but there just isn't the same correlation between his most popular scores and his most popular films, which Williams and Zimmer have achieved to a large extent.

 

I think this ties into why JNH is so in demand, yet totally unknown to the average filmgoer.

 

He has no 'star' movies under his belt, certainly nothing on the SW/Indy/Potter movies which helped put JW on the map. He works constantly because he's been able to satisfy every filmmaker request, whether it be soaring orchestral or the most droning RCP flavoured music. He knows that he's working for the director and provides what they want, fast.

 

He's always been pretty much my favourite composer, even though a lot of his work is really not listening orientated. I find it pretty much guaranteed that if he does a modern thriller such as Bourne or Salt the music is going to be bland and forgottable.

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

But Salt has some great music. The "Chase Across DC is so much fun!!

[Yavar Moradi 2,590]

8 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

No, I am not. It is good adventure music, but nothing that keeps going through my head, when I leave the cinema. As I said, they are often recognizable, means I would recognize many of them, when I hear them again. But when I look at examples like Dances with Wolves or Raiders of the Lost Ark that is, at least in that regard a completely different league.

If you hummed the melodies from your examples here still for hours after watching the movie you have a very different feeling for melodies than I have.

Count me as someone else who has a very different feeling for melodies than you have. I’m still humming Dinosaur and other JNH scores YEARS later. And I remember liking The Terminal quite a bit but couldn’t hum it for you now.

 

Yavar

[GerateWohl 4,337]

2 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Count me as someone else who has a very different feeling for melodies than you have.

I thought that already when I read, that Mysterious Island is your favourite Herrmann score.

Interesting. 

It's maybe a little bit like the question, If you are rather the Beatles or the Stones type.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

13 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

If you hummed the melodies from your examples here still for hours after watching the movie you have a very different feeling for melodies than I have.

 

You cited Dances with Wolves as a catchy theme. Well, how could you forget about it? Barry repeats it all the freaking time!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Not on the OST.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Repeated use is obviously a major factor on whether a theme is remembered.

 

Easy to hum + repeatedly played + successful film = general audience remember. (Basically the formula of Williams success) 

 

Besides his general incredible genius of course. (But that's for us types to enjoy)

 

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,590]

6 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I thought that already when I read, that Mysterious Island is your favourite Herrmann score.

Interesting. 

It's maybe a little bit like the question, If you are rather the Beatles or the Stones type.

Despite it being my favorite of his work, I don’t consider MI to be Herrmann’s most melodic score by any means (though I do find many cues quite memorable anyway). That would obviously be The Ghost and Mrs. Muir… although there are many other scores with melodic gems like this:

Of course on that one he was completing a score begun by the great melodist Alfred Newman, so it makes sense he’d go that direction so there wasn’t a jarring divide between their work.

 

Yavar

[Tallguy 3,376]

I think my two favorite scores of JNH are Atlantis and Treasure Planet. Oh, wait, I forgot. I'm a Wyatt Earp junkie now. So that one.

 

But the tune that will get stuck in my head for DAAAAYS on end is Dave.

[Edmilson 7,392]

I know JW had a stellar 2005, and I like/love all four of his scores from that year. Still, my favorite 2005 score remains JNH's King Kong. I love that score, IMHO it's one of his masterpieces. 

 

He truly was on fire during the early to mid-2000s, with the Disney scores, the Shyamalan movies, plus KK and stuff like Hidalgo.

[Knight of Ren 785]

Recently watched Knock at the Cabin, and I really liked it, but afterwards I was thinking on how would the movie feel if James Newton Howard had scored it, so I did this little experiment, which ended up being better than I expected!

 

Spoilers for the movie, since it's one of the last scenes, but I tried silencing the original score, and I put "Be With You", from JNH's The Happening, another Shyamalan movie about global disasters. You can still hear a bit of the original score, which isn't bad at all, but I think Howard's dramatic writing fits the movie just as much, and I really wish Shyamalan would go back to work with him, since their works together are some of my favorite scores from the composer, with The Village being one of my favorite scores ever!

 

Anyway, here's the little experiment! I uploaded it to Google Drive, since YouTube immediately blocked the video.

 

Knock at the Cabin (JNH Rescore)

 

What do you think? Does it work better or you prefer the original scene as it is?

[Richard Penna 3,671]

On 02/03/2023 at 3:33 AM, Edmilson said:

I know JW had a stellar 2005, and I like/love all four of his scores from that year. Still, my favorite 2005 score remains JNH's King Kong. I love that score, IMHO it's one of his masterpieces. 

 

He truly was on fire during the early to mid-2000s, with the Disney scores, the Shyamalan movies, plus KK and stuff like Hidalgo.

 

I'd agree to an extent. I think the album is one of the best OSTs anyone's ever made for a huge score - it plays well and does a great job of containing most of the highlight cues.

 

But I think the complete score shows symptoms of JNH (and co.) having 5 weeks to write it, particularly in some of the action cues that aren't on the album. The only additional music I decided to add to the OST is the percussion-heavy cue where Kong is Chasing Brody's character through the streets of NY.

[Tallguy 3,376]

My wife was watching The Hunger Games (1, 2, whatever) last night. I really should go listen to this. It was amazing!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

You're hungry for more?

[LSH 968]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I'd agree to an extent. I think the album is one of the best OSTs anyone's ever made for a huge score - it plays well and does a great job of containing most of the highlight cues.

 

But I think the complete score shows symptoms of JNH (and co.) having 5 weeks to write it, particularly in some of the action cues that aren't on the album. The only additional music I decided to add to the OST is the percussion-heavy cue where Kong is Chasing Brody's character through the streets of NY.

 

Yes, I agree the OST is a superb program that is a very good representation of all the main ideas. There's a lot of repetition in the complete score that is not that notable, bar a couple of moments.

[Bespin 8,480]

[LSH 968]

16 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

I did think about The Fugitive score when he died the other day.

[Marc 758]

Fun action cue !!

 

 

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

[Jay 37,287]

Doug Fake has posted that another JNH title is in the works by Intrada

 

https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/sc.13/category.60330/.f

[Edmilson 7,392]

Which JNH titles can Intrada expand? I imagine his Disney scores (Dinosaur, Atlantis, Treasure Planet) are off the table, as well as anything post-2005, so no King Kong either. Maybe one of his early Shyamalan movies? The Village desperate needs an expansion, the OST for some reason doesn't include some of the best cues.

[Jay 37,287]

The first four JNH/Shyamalan collaborations are Disney flicks

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

3 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The Village desperate needs an expansion, the OST for some reason doesn't include some of the best cues.

 

So that's why the album is such a drag!

[Edmilson 7,392]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

The first four JNH/Shyamalan collaborations are Disney flicks

Yeah, but I don't think Disney would create much problem to allow Intrada or any other label to expand them, unlike their animations which I believe they prefer to do (if at all) via the Disney Records Legacy Collection. Right?

[Jay 37,287]

I have no idea

 

I do know that Alive and Willow are the only two Disney flicks Intrada has worked on since 2019, with the upcoming Solo DE being their third

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I'd rather the powers that be convene to get The Village on Blu-ray before worrying about expanding the score.  Better yet: do both at the same time.

[LSH 968]

What I would like to see released:

 

My Girl (Premiere)

The Postman (Expansion)

Vertical Limit (Expansion)

[Richard Penna 3,671]

The Village is an outlier in the M. Night canon - all his others are relatively comprehensive, minimal rearrangement and certainly don't exclude any highlight cues.

 

I reckon that because it's a very character oriented film with Hilary Hahn's violin connecting so strongly with Bryce Howard's character, he wanted to show it as a 'tone poem' and think of it more as an album than the others. However, as a result he left off a lot of music and did some bizarre rearranging of the rest - looking at Spotify it's spectacularly out of film order.

 

The entire score, including at least one alternate, and something that appears only in the end credits (although part of the credits in the film is probably tracked), easily fits on one CD.

[Edmilson 7,392]

I'm still mad at JNH for leaving this wonderful cue out of the OST, it's just so good:

 

 

 

[Knight of Ren 785]

The Village is one of Howard's crowning achievements and it would be great to have it officially released in an expanded presentation, especially to have it in chronological order, since the original release is a mess in that regard.

 

I wonder, in case they do that, if they'll keep some of the film edits of some cues, or if they will keep the more complete versions as heard in the leak from a couple years ago.

[Drawgoon 100]

I was expecting a label to pick up Signs last year. It was the film's 20th anniversary after all.

It could still be Signs- though I don't think the current album is missing anything substantial, if anything at all.

 

It could also be Flatliners. It is a title that people seemingly talk about each time Intrada announces some JNH album in the works.

 

Village would be awesome. The old album continues to get tons of listens from me in autumn time.

 

I only wish Last Airbender could get considered some day. With the real choir restored, that is.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

20 hours ago, Knight of Ren said:

I wonder, in case they do that, if they'll keep some of the film edits of some cues, or if they will keep the more complete versions as heard in the leak from a couple years ago.

 

You wouldn't see anything edited for the film. I highly expect it would be something very closely resembling my current set, which is the OST combined with a promo that surfaced years ago containing just the cues not on the album.

 

Signs works extremely well in album form as a really nice 'deep summer' tone poem, and I think how people would react to the extra material depends very much dependent on how familiar they are with the film. I really like the film and latched onto the music strongly enough that I wanted everything but those who haven't seen the film or have a more casual fandom of the score probably wouldn't need the extra music.

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

I would love the first part of the end credits from Last Airbender with choir etc!

[Stark 310]

Hunger Games scores are great!

 

Back to the expansion, I really really want the Postman.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

Whatever you say about the film, THE POSTMAN has a good score.

[filmmusic 1,823]

If I'd like a JNH expansion, I would choose The Prince of Tides. (although I'm not sure we're missing much music. Unless there are many alternates, song versions etc.)

[Marc 758]

Love this cue !
 

 

[LSH 968]

5 hours ago, Marc said:

Love this cue !
 

 

 

Fantastic cover of a great cue.

 

Particularly love that mini fanfare flourish at 3:11.

[Jay 37,287]

nice job, @Marc, I quite enjoyed that!

[leeallen01 2,133]

Don't think I've ever shared my JNH tattoo, but hey, here goes. It's his name in musical note form on the strings of a lyre instrument (the one used by Apollo; the god of music in greek mythology) 

[Edmilson 7,392]

This is great!

[Bespin 8,480]

Do we know the content of this suite?

 

[GerateWohl 4,337]

On 20/05/2023 at 11:25 PM, leeallen01 said:

Don't think I've ever shared my JNH tattoo, but hey, here goes. It's his name in musical note form on the strings of a lyre instrument (the one used by Apollo; the god of music in greek mythology) 

I thought this is supposed to be the rear view at a sitting big fat cat with James Newton Howard's name tatooed across her shaved back.