Planning "to get all 'Wrath of Khan'"

[Lurker 5]

Superman Returns director Bryan Singer has said, "I plan to get all 'Wrath of Khan'" with the Superman Returns sequel. How exactly will that be different from Superman Returns? Let's review that film...

* The opening titles look like the Genesis tape

* Luthor creates land which would "destroy such life, in favor of its new matrix"(just like Genesis)

* there is a music cue called "Genesis Project" in the movie

* Superman has an illegitimate son he doesn't know about

* a villain previously imprisoned by the hero escapes and studies new technology and seeks revenge utilizing that technology

* the self-sacrifice and resurrection of the hero

This of course all comes after Singers X2 which featured a mind control drug similar to the Ceti Eel and another self sacrifice and resurrection. And the ending of X2 is clearly patterned on the ending of TWOK, down to the music and the voice over being supplied by a supposedly dead character.

I wonder if Luthors little island will be named "Botany Bay" in the new movie.

I hope that when Singer says, "I plan to get all 'Wrath of Khan'" it means Singer and company are all being replaced with a new creative team and the budget is slashed. Then the movie would really be going "all Wrath of Khan".

That would also mean Superman would get a new uniform!

Neil

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

This of course all comes after Singers X2 which featured a mind control drug similar to the Ceti Eel and another self sacrifice and resurrection. And the ending of X2 is clearly patterned on the ending of TWOK, down to the music and the voice over being supplied by a supposedly dead character.

Don't forget the Wrath of Khan reference in The Usual Suspects.

I wonder if he'll "get all Jaws" on Supes III v2.0.

[Indiana_Fett 0]

I'd like to note that Ottman's music that leads into the credits of X2 is much like Horner's music that leads into the credits for Wrath of Khan.

[Lurker 5]

I'd like to note that Ottman's music that leads into the credits of X2 is much like Horner's music that leads into the credits for Wrath of Khan.

You mean just like I did when I said above in the first post, "And the ending of X2 is clearly patterned on the ending of TWOK, down to the music..."?

Neil

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I'd like to note that Ottman's music that leads into the credits of X2 is much like Horner's music that leads into the credits for Wrath of Khan.

You mean just like I did when I said above in the first post, "And the ending of X2 is clearly patterned on the ending of TWOK, down to the music..."?

Neil

Whoa!

Welcome back Neil!

[Ollie 1,059]

Zzooooodddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!

[Indiana_Fett 0]

I'd like to note that Ottman's music that leads into the credits of X2 is much like Horner's music that leads into the credits for Wrath of Khan.

You mean just like I did when I said above in the first post, "And the ending of X2 is clearly patterned on the ending of TWOK, down to the music..."?

Neil

Of course . That's what I get for getting over excited about a thread.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Prayer, Mr. White. Kryptonian villains don't take prisoners.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

So, being like this Wrath of Kahn film.... is it a good thing or a bad thing?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

No. Lousy Star Trek.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Now wait just a damn minute!

[robthehand 3]

No. Lousy Star Trek.

There are more watchable Star Trek films than watchable Star Wars and Superman films combined!

[Ollie 1,059]

No. Lousy Star Trek.

And you should have the eels put in your ears as well.

So, being like this Wrath of Kahn film.... is it a good thing or a bad thing?

If it were another director other than Singer, maybe.

[robthehand 3]

If Singer makes the next Superman film as good as The Wrath of Khan, you won't catch me complaining.

[Red 75]

If he makes it better than Superman Returns then you won't see me complaining either.

Rabbit--who was one of the few people (on this board) who really enjoyed Returns

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Singer claims that the first film sets up the characters and in the second film they really get things going.

First, that did not apply to Star Trek, since that was a continuation of a TV show, so the characters and actors playing them were well established.

Secondly, that does not count for Superman Returns, since that was supposed to be a sequal to Superman The Movie and Superman II.

[crocodile 8,012]

The thing is Superman Returns is not a sequel. They stated that clearly enough.

Karol

[Lurker 5]

Yeah, it only takes characters and situations from previous films and builds off of them.

Neil

[robthehand 3]

It's very much a sequel. They took a few liberties with the time-line (i.e. there was a six year gap in the story, but a 26-year gap in the time-line), but the characters of Lois, Clark, Lex, Jimmy etc. are supposed to be the same Lois, Clark, Lex and Jimmy from Superman and Superman II.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's very much a sequel. They took a few liberties with the time-line (i.e. there was a six year gap in the story, but a 26-year gap in the time-line), but the characters of Lois, Clark, Lex, Jimmy etc. are supposed to be the same Lois, Clark, Lex and Jimmy from Superman and Superman II.

Even though they all look younger.

[robthehand 3]

Yes. But the idea is that they're the same people. The bad idea, that is.

[crocodile 8,012]

Again, SR is a quasi-sequel. The events from another movies maybe took place or maybe they didn't. It doesn't matter.

Are Bond films sequels? Was Batman Forever a sequel? Is Batman begins a prequel?

Karol, who thinks of SR as a remake.

[robthehand 3]

Are Bond films sequels?

Loose sequels. It's obviously meant to be the same character, but it's not one continuing story.

Was Batman Forever a sequel?

Yes.

Is Batman begins a prequel?

No.

Karol, who thinks of SR as a remake.

It's certainly not that - however you look at it, they made it quite clear in the film that it follows on from the events in Superman and Superman II.

[Ollie 1,059]

Superman Returns is a loose sequel. It acknowledges the events of the Donner films with subtle hints but advances the story to modern times. But it's basically a continuation of the first 2 films.

The Bond films have done the same thing, there are subtle references to to previous adventures but they have advanced the stories to reflect modern times.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Exactly, Mark.

Students of the Superman myth and of comic strip narrative in general were always fascinated by how well-defined the status quo for a Superman comic is. Clark is Superman and works as a reporter at the Daily Planet with bossy, independent star reporter Lois Lane. Clark is in love with Lois, but she is in love with Superman. Lex Luthor is out to endager humanity as we know it. People love Superman. End of story.

Umberto Eco dedicated a whole chapter in one of his books about the timeless logic in theSupes myth - how intriguing it was that an adventure never came specifically before or after any other. In fact, in the crucially early Superman days, it was impossible to define a chronological order from one strip to the other.

So the collective subconscious has already assimilated this situation I just described. Singer added minor tweakings that respected the basic outline (so that the audience could feel connected) and then slightly changed it within its own logic. Quite successfully, I might add. You don't see the twists coming, but once they do, they feel somewhat organical to the situation we had in our memory.

And by all this rambling I just mean that you don't have to consider Superman Returns as a direct sequel to anything. It could well be a sequel to any version of the story, even an untold one. Playing with this non-direct/direct references was Returns' strongest suit. After all, the Superman films are not a saga. Each and every one of them is a different study (with out without variations) of the age-old Superman status quo, whether or not they might circumstancially connect one's narrative with the other.