Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Did Lucas tell JW, "we need a new, more powerful theme for the empire." ORDid JW tell Lucas, "hey George, check out this new theme I came up with. Can we use it as a new theme for the empire?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Maybe they decided they needed a specific theme for Vader (it is called "The Imperial March - Darth Vader's Theme" after all), rather than the general "empire" theme from the first film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 i think williams, after seeing that esb was being called ep v, and se was going to be labeled IV, said, mmm i have to make a theme fir vader before he becomes vader, and then create a theme for vader in esb, derivated from it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Since Vader & Empire had a stronger presence in the film I would imagine it was discussed during the spotting of the film about coming up with a theme to represent them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi 0 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Since Vader & Empire had a stronger presence in the film I would imagine it was discussed during the spotting of the film about coming up with a theme to represent them.I think JW was so close to stating this theme in the opening of a new hope, and that big brass fanfare for the rebel blockade runner thingy. the empire theme i had always thought was a derivative of this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Since Vader & Empire had a stronger presence in the film I would imagine it was discussed during the spotting of the film about coming up with a theme to represent them.Exactly.Although wouldn't it be more likely he would have had this discussion with Kershner than with Lucas?I can't remember the post-production on ESB anymore. Was Kershner heavily involved, or did Lucas take over by that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I honestly do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Lucas didn't completely take over. I know, because he viewed an early cut (not his version), and didn't like it, so did his own cut - which everyone hated. The finished film is more based around the non-Lucas cut, or so I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Lucas didn't completely take over. I know, because he viewed an early cut (not his version), and didn't like it, so did his own cut - which everyone hated.Wow. Where'd you hear that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 On this board, I believe. I'll try and find it.EDIT: found it. Second paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 And what about that ESB scoring doc, with keshner, lucas, kurtz and williams discussing the movie without anymusic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 The Imperial March is actually a variation on Mendelssohn's "Wedding March". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 The Imperial March came from John Williams' mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 And what about that ESB scoring doc, with keshner, lucas, kurtz and williams discussing the movie without anymusic? That could easily have been a day Lucas strategically decide to show his face. He hears that the BBC is doing a doc, and is saying to himself 'I gots to be there, else they might think that this Kirshner dude actually did something creative in the film'. I haven't a clue where the truth lies, no do I give a damn, but I don't think that doc is any proof of anything.The Imperial March is actually a variation on Mendelssohn's "Wedding March". Of course it did. All educated people agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 D'OH, defeated by sarcasm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I do believe Lucas wasn't too happy with Kershner's version. I know he made some changes/edits but I'm not sure how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 The story was that Doyle was recovering and had actually written a score. Williams attended a screening, liked the film and was hired by Columbus. Nowhere do I recall Williams asking to score the film which leads me to believe that Doyle's score wasn't any good to start with or Columbus wanted Williams all along and this was his excuse to get him.Are you sure you got the right thread, Mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I was posting in two threads at the same time.I can't multi task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Its keshner or kirshner?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 When in doubt always go to the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 When in doubt always go to the source.But yuu wait someone to show the source to you, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I do believe Lucas wasn't too happy with Kershner's version. I know he made some changes/edits but I'm not sure how much.Thats actually kind of funny considering how good Empire was. One can't help but wonder how it might have turned out had Lucas directed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Yep , if the memory serves , it was one of the ghostwriters , who made that little march tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 This is where you laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macrea Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 It was probably as simple as Williams running the film and seeing that Vader was very prominent and had become a homicidal maniac, so he thought he needed a more obvious theme that would anchor the score. Plus it was called "The Empire Strikes Back," so it seems logical that the Empire/Vader would have a new theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'm in the camp that would believe Lucas told Williams that they need a theme for the Empire and, more specifically, Vader. I'm sure that the two of them, with the director, sat down and had a detailed spotting session, and the topic of themes probably came up naturally through those intial discussions. It's doubtful that Williams just went away and wrote these themes without consulting the director and producer (especially Lucas). He knew exactly what he needed beforehand, and then composed the themes accordingly.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrygollay 0 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 The Imperial March is actually a variation on Mendelssohn's "Wedding March".Symphony # 1 from Sir E.Elgar 2nd Movement !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genius_Gone_Insane 5 Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 This is where you laugh. I don't get your humor here. Apparently my brainpower is inferior to others here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaid72000 0 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I think John Williams said this after he viewed the movie without music and came back to George to say, "Hey George listen to what I just came up with for the new ESB movie. I think it will make a great theme for Vader." I could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST-321 4 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Did Lucas tell JW, "we need a new, more powerful theme for the empire." ORDid JW tell Lucas, "hey George, check out this new theme I came up with. Can we use it as a new theme for the empire?"Wasn't this basically answered in the liner notes from the 1980 LP? Or is old age setting in on me. I can't seem to find mine now, but someone here has it, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Did Lucas tell JW, "we need a new, more powerful theme for the empire." ORDid JW tell Lucas, "hey George, check out this new theme I came up with. Can we use it as a new theme for the empire?"Wasn't this basically answered in the liner notes from the 1980 LP? Or is old age setting in on me. I can't seem to find mine now, but someone here has it, yes?Click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The almighty one has once again provided the info.Saved me from going thru boxes to find the LP.On a serious note I could have sworn there was an interview with Williams in the LP notes. I know Star Wars had one.Also the cues have an error in their descriptions on LP 1 side 1. Tracks 1 & 4, the second half of track 4 is actually the MF's escape from Hoth, the second half of track 1 contains the escape from the slug.It still doesn't answer the question originally asked though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The Imperial March is not mentioned in the original LP's interview with Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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