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Star Trek Generation temporal logic?

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I'm probably far from the first person to think of this but...

In Generations, Dr. Soren destroys several planets and millions or billions of people to get back into the Nexus and be, in a sense immortal.

But...isn't he still in the Nexus anyway? Guinan was, so was Kirk.

Is this a flaw in the films script, or a temporal paradox?

Anyone understand what I'm on about?

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Ok, how about this;

Picard goes into the Nexus. Then he leaves and saves the planet and doesn't go into the Nexus. I could type more but I already have a headache, and I think you get my drift.

Those problems aside, I still have a soft spot for Generations. Up until the point that Picard goes into the Nexus it's a good movie. It just all falls apart after that.

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Good point, here's another.

How do Picard and Kirk leave the Nexus? To enter it you supposedly have to blow up several stars to chance it's path and get it to collide with a planet. But you can leave it, when you want, and apparently anywere you want?

Like you I have a softspot for the film though, that's why I love to pick it apart. :banghead:

The biggest gripe I had with the film is that the Enterprise B looks like an Excellior class vessel from the Classic Trek movies. I know it makes some sense, and I know they probably saved some money using that old model.

But it just doesn't look and feel like The Enterprise.

Anyone else got any nits to pick? :sigh:

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Anyone else got any nits to pick? :banghead:

Yeah, here's another really itchy one:

Soran's blowing up stars because he can't fly a ship into the Nexus. All the ships that go into it are destroyed. But even if the ship's destroyed, the people still go into the Nexus, don't they? After all, isn't that what happened to Kirk?

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If you remember Guinan tells Picard that he wasn't seeing her just an "echo" of herself when he was in the Nexus. Once you go in you leave behind a "footprint" of yourself would be the best way to explain it.

Now if a person dies outside of the Nexus after being in it then I don't know if it would still be there.

Of course if Kirk and Picard had any sense they would have went further back in time to when the crew first discovered Soran or Kirk could have gone back to the Enterprise B.

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Good point, but as John just said, Kirk got in there, and he was on a ship....

Could Soren not have beamed into the Nexus...hmmm...

Another nit.

Capt. John Harriman of The Enterprise B.

Usually The Enterprise is captained by strong leaders, Kirk, Captain Spock, Picard, Captaon Garret in Yesterday's Enterprise.

Why is Ferris Bueller's depressed friend sitting in the Captains chair?

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What's a Nexus?

The Nexus is a spatial anomaly. It is a ribbon-like energy pattern that travels through space. When it comes into contact with sentient lifeforms they are turned into part of the energy pattern. There they exist in a dream-state where eternal happiness is achieved by the crafting of one's ideal universe to whatever he or she desires. It is very difficult to "snap out" of the false reality and return to one's original physical life once becoming one with The Nexus.

The galactic version of drugs....

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Wouldn't had also made sense that the Nexus would eventually pass a planet? Couldn't Soran have plotted a course and met it there?

Or he could have donned a spacesuit and waited for it in space.

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What's with all the Trek threads lately?

Bunch of nerds.

It's a lot more fun then another round of Prequel bashing, and ultimatly better for your nerves.

Or he could have donned a spacesuit and waited for it in space.

That would have been a fun film.....

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The biggest gripe I had with the film is that the Enterprise B looks like an Excellior class vessel from the Classic Trek movies. I know it makes some sense, and I know they probably saved some money using that old model.

From a technical point of view... the Enterprise-B was an Excelsior class (as seen on the wall of the Enterprise-D observation lounge for most of the series) but by the time they filmed Generations they decided to make it a refit Excelsior class, hence why it still looks the same but slightly different.

Actually if you really want to get into it.. all the Enterprise-B model is, is just the original Excelsior filming model from Star Trek III modified.

Yes my whole post was the modeling geek in me coming out. Yes I do build plastic Star Trek kit models as hobby of mine...even though I haven't built any in a long time.

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The biggest gripe I had with the film is that the Enterprise B looks like an Excellior class vessel from the Classic Trek movies. I know it makes some sense, and I know they probably saved some money using that old model.

But it just doesn't look and feel like The Enterprise.

It's the Excelsior model built for Trek III with an extension done to the hull so they could blow it away without destroying the actual model. :)

Neil

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It's the Excelsior model built for Trek III with an extension done to the hull so they could blow it away without destroying the actual model. :)

Neil

The part where they put a hole in the engineering section of the ship actually was just a larger seperate portion the ILM guys built and not part of the actual filming model.

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From Cinefex Number 61 (March 1995)...

"An Excelsior-class vessel often seen on The Next Generation series and in three previous features, the Enterprise B underwent cosmetic alteration before putting to space. 'The Los Angeles production team figured that by changing some details on the model,' Bill George said, 'we could make it seem that the Enterprise B in Generations was a little further evolved toward the look we see in the next century with the Enterprise D.' Subtle alterations included additional pods on the engine nacelles and a boat-type curve to the lower hull."

And here is the modified model...

gen0008.jpg

Neil

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Ok this is the geekiest of all my nits:

In The Nexus, Picard has a wife and children right?

Why didn't they use the wife and children he had in The Inner Light?

It would be a nice nod to fans AND make a whole lot more sense.

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What's a Nexus?

It is a shampoo. 300.jpg

Ok this is the geekiest of all my nits:

In The Nexus, Picard has a wife and children right?

Why didn't they use the wife and children he had in The Inner Light?

It would be a nice nod to fans AND make a whole lot more sense.

What would the wife and kids from Inner Light be doing in an English country home?

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How do Picard and Kirk leave the Nexus? To enter it you supposedly have to blow up several stars to chance it's path and get it to collide with a planet. But you can leave it, when you want, and apparently anywere you want?

That is my understanding.

Soran's blowing up stars because he can't fly a ship into the Nexus. All the ships that go into it are destroyed. But even if the ship's destroyed, the people still go into the Nexus, don't they? After all, isn't that what happened to Kirk?

Apparently, one gets transported into the Nexus moments before (or perhaps at the exact instant) ones surroundings are destroyed.

Marian - who thinks the best-looking Enterprise is still the NCC-1701-C.

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I'd just like to point out for those that haven't heard it, the commentary on the 2-disc Generations release with writers Ron Moore and Brannon Braga is one of the best I've ever heard. They are their own harshest critics, and are very frank about what they think doesn't work in the movie. I don't think they get into a big nerdy temporal mechanics discussion, but just about everything else get dissected.

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Yes my whole post was the modeling geek in me coming out. Yes I do build plastic Star Trek kit models as hobby of mine...even though I haven't built any in a long time.

Vosk you are a weird one. Star Trek and 24?, talk about completely opposite ends of the coolness spectrum.

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Yes but 24 is just cool right now. In a few years times it will probably be considered dated as Baywatch, Beverly Hills 90210 or The X-Files are soon now.

Star Trek has endured for a lot longer, despite it not being cool.

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This is a Forum dedicated to a 75 year old man with a turtleneck, glasses and a beard, who composes music for film.

Were you really expecting this to be a hip crowd?

But back to the topic. Is it me or do Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis have the same basic plot and the same basic villian?

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They follow the basic formula of the Federation/galaxy/Enterprise in danger by an outside source and the crew of the Enterprise are the ones to save the day and they may occassionally bend regulations to accomplish it.

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They follow the basic formula of the Federation/galaxy/Enterprise in danger by an outside source and the crew of the Enterprise are the ones to save the day and they may occassionally bend regulations to accomplish it.

Also both Soren and Ru'afo are obsessed with becoming immortal and are prepared to destoy a planet to obtain it.

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What movie is this describing?

"A very ugly race wants to take over a neighboring planet because it will give them greater power. The leader is in a race against time to do so because he is physically deteriorating, and victory means that he will be cured. After attacking the center of the planet’s settlement, the enemy forces engage the Enterprise. This climaxes with hand-to-hand combat between Picard and the enemy leader, who is attempting to deploy a destructive weapon. Picard is transported to the Enterprise at the last possible moment and the weapon destroyed."

Neil

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But back to the topic. Is it me or do Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis have the same basic plot and the same basic villian?

It isn't you. :lol: It was pretty worn out by the time we got to Nemesis.

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Yeah, the idea pool had definately gotten dry. Now, if instead of Insurrection we got a Dominion War movie, that would have been great. It could have been centered around an event mentioned but not seen on DS9 that would have played great with the Next Gen crew: the invasion of Betazed.

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Yeah, the idea pool had definately gotten dry. Now, if instead of Insurrection we got a Dominion War movie, that would have been great. It could have been centered around an event mentioned but not seen on DS9 that would have played great with the Next Gen crew: the invasion of Betazed.

I always thought it weird that The Enterprise, the flagship of the fleet commanded by one of Starfleet's most experienced Captains was doing minor diplomatic work in Insurrection. There was a huge war going on, I think they could have used The Enterprise.

Also, in both Insurrection and First Contact Word resumes his role as tactical officer. Why?

Should The Enterprise already have one?

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Word, don't you mean Worf? LOL

Well in Insurrection at the begining Worf starts to tell Picard and Crusher how he got on board.

As far as Nemesis goes it took place well after the Dominion war and of course after Voyager had returned home. It's possible too that he really was no longer needed on Qo'noS (if you remember the DS9 series finale what his job would been) and Picard probably asked Worf to come back to the Enterprise as Chief Of Security.

I think the Enterprise was used a lot during the Dominion war but Picard was I believe the most experience Captain in Starfleet as far as diplomatic deals are concerned. There were times though during DS9 Dominion War episodes that I would have loved to have seen the Enterprise during the fight... kind of a wasted opportunity there.

What they need to do is make a pretty good movie combinging the TNG, DS9 and Voyager crews in almost one last true adventure together... just my opinion anyways.

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Well in Insurrection at the begining Worf starts to tell Picard and Crusher how he got on board.

Yes, in Insurrection he joins the Enterprise because he was...in the area. And then spends the rest of the film pretending he never left ;)

I don't really mind, since I love Michael Dorn as Worf, but it's definatly a bit of a error.

As far as Nemesis goes it took place well after the Dominion war and of course after Voyager had returned home. It's possible too that he really was no longer needed on Qo'noS (if you remember the DS9 series finale what his job would been) and Picard probably asked Worf to come back to the Enterprise as Chief Of Security.
A scene that was cut out from Nemesis explained that politics did not agree with Worf.
I think the Enterprise was used a lot during the Dominion war but Picard was I believe the most experience Captain in Starfleet as far as diplomatic deals are concerned. There were times though during DS9 Dominion War episodes that I would have loved to have seen the Enterprise during the fight... kind of a wasted opportunity there.

I don't mind, DS9 really is a different kind of show then TNG anyway.

What they need to do is make a pretty good movie combinging the TNG, DS9 and Voyager crews in almost one last true adventure together... just my opinion anyways.

I can't think of anything I'd rather NOT see made.

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I always thought it weird that The Enterprise, the flagship of the fleet commanded by one of Starfleet's most experienced Captains was doing minor diplomatic work in Insurrection. There was a huge war going on, I think they could have used The Enterprise.

But then it wouldn't be Star Trek would it?

Also, in both Insurrection and First Contact Word resumes his role as tactical officer. Why? Should The Enterprise already have one?

I would imagine it went down where some poor s.o.b. realized Worf was much more qualified to be at tactical, much like Deckard and Spock in TMP.

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I would imagine it went down where some poor s.o.b. realized Worf was much more qualified to be at tactical, much like Deckard and Spock in TMP.

Was Deckard a carbon based unit or a replicant? ;)

Neil

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