Which of the Indy scores so far is your favorite?

[Josh500 1,615]

I'm sure this has been done before, but I was curious to know what people's opinions were now. Now, before you post, I need you to know that the poll refers to the SCORES only -- which is your favorite score? Many will probably agree with me that ToD is the worst Indy MOVIE so far, but nonetheless IMO the score is top-notch Williams (in some ways, for me, better than Last Crusade). Raiders is a modern classic (The Basket Game and Marion's Theme are unforgettable), but is it really better than the other two?

What I think is this: Raiders and ToD are No. 1. Crusade is a close second, although not by much.

What do you think? And what are your favorite moments of the individual scores?

Damn, how do you erase the other post? Does anyone know?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Damn, how do you erase the other post?

You can't.

- Marc, who prefers Raiders.

[Josh500 1,615]

Damn, how do you erase the other post?

You can't.

Oh. Well, good thing then you're around.

Care to elaborate what makes Raiders for you better than ToD or LC?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It gets much more playtime than the other two here.

Perhaps if ToD and LC were better presented (i.e. more music released) I might sway, but I just enjoy listening to Raiders the most.

Also, Raiders seems to have a focus, a clarity to it. It's not as much all out all the time as with the other two, and it seems to inevitably drive towards its finale. I think that also has to do with how the film itself is better spotted than its sequels. Or maybe I'm just projecting the movie onto the score. Either way, like I said, it's still the most-played Indy score for me.

[Datameister 2,037]

I voted Raiders without hesitation. From beginning to end, it is simply brilliant. The opening scene is so sonically bizarre, very eerie, and so effective. The ensuing action music is inventive, technically amazing, and thoroughly original. The Raiders' march is introduced in "Flight from Peru" with the kind of gusto that I'd expect from the original Star Wars--definitely a favorite Williams moment of mine. The Ark theme soon starts making its appearances; it never fails to send shivers up my spine. So simple...yet it has an otherworldly creepiness to it. Marion's theme is nice, though not my absolute favorite Williams theme. "The Basket Game," once my very least favorite Williams cue, has become a welcome addition to my music library. Listening to "The Map Room: Dawn" makes my day feel a little more worthwhile, as does "The Miracle of the Ark." The action music in between is certainly original, though some of it drags on a little bit. Plus, Raiders gets a little pity point for having a GREAT transition from "The Warehouse" into the end credits that was cut from the film.

ToD is entertaining enough, but it doesn't have enough moments of sheer brilliance to really keep me riveted. The Last Crusade contains some truly outstanding music, particularly the Grail theme, but the score as a whole isn't quite as brilliant as Raiders.

EDIT: Mr. Breathmask, you're absolutely right about the "focus" of Raiders. The entire score moves forward in a logical progression, from beginning to end.

[Josh500 1,615]

I think Raiders is arguably the best MOVIE of the three, so people also tend to like that score best. And it's definitely a masterpiece, but, in some ways, ToD has more to offer: I just can't get enough of Short Round's Theme and the Slave Children's Crusade. Also, Ncturnal Activities is one of the funniest and most enjoyable cues of the trilogy (and you can't find something like that in Raiders). Maybe it's just me, but I have an idea JW put much more effort into creating ToD than into Raiders (kinda like with Star Wars and ESB).

But again, for me Raiders and ToD are equally good -- both masterpieces.

I voted Raiders without hesitation. From beginning to end, it is simply brilliant. The opening scene is so sonically bizarre, very eerie, and so effective. The ensuing action music is inventive, technically amazing, and thoroughly original.

Yeah, I agree, the opening of Raiders is one of the all-time best. I just have the originally released album of the score (not the expanded version), so I can only listen to that while watching the movie, but that moment really stands out.

[robthehand 3]

Raiders of the Lost Ark is a perfect, or near-perfect score. It fits the film like a glove, and there is never a dull moment.

Temple of Doom has lots of nice new themes and some great cues, but it doesn't work for me as well as Raiders.

The Last Crusade is definitely the weakest score for me, lots of nice material, but I tire of it very quickly.

[Josh500 1,615]

The Last Crusade is definitely the weakest score for me, lots of nice material, but I tire of it very quickly.

Yeah, but on the other hand, The Last Crusade has Belly of the Steel Beast -- the BEST action cue of the Indy Trilogy, IMHO -- and Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra, which I would call pretty darn original. It would have been so easy, I'm sure, for Williams to write just another breakneck action cue, but he wrote a scherzo, for Pete's sake, a scherzo (which, by the way, means "joke" in Italian)!!!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

For me , there are three perfect marriages between the music and motion picture: Raiders , E.T. &

Close Encounters.So I voted Raiders.

I remember listening/watching thousands of times the best cues from crappy VHS before I got my album.

My favorite places are the whole opening( suspense approaching the Idol, first trumpet theme with liane and

the snake on the plane with horns)

Map Room of course and the Medallion theme (especially in the end after"it's beautiful")

All the action music is also great.

I love also Tod and LC (because I'm THE Fanboy) but Raiders is something special.(CE3K still in it's own league)

[Henry B 50]

ToD is really starting to grate on me. "The Mine Car Chase" is a tearfully boring cue. It's also incredibly complex. It seems that Williams sought to underscore the breakneck pace of the film (after the Thuggees are encountered, of course) with orchestral mayhem. Even the Raiders March is over-orchestrated, with Short Round's theme playing counterpoint to it in the end credits. More isn't always better. I never really fell for Marion's theme, but Willie's isn't very good, either. It's all wrong for the character. I don't like to make blanket statements, though. "Anything Goes" is a brilliant opener, "Bug Tunnel and Death Trap" is a brilliant action cue, and some of the unreleased music is great. (I guess? It's hard to take it seriously with the sound effects of a DVD rip.)

Last Crusade definitely has heart to it, but it gives away too much too often. How about the twice-rescored "Birds of Charlemagne" scene? The original cue ("Keeping Up with the Jones") utilizes a sappy rendition of Henry's theme, the alternative cue utilizes a sappy rendition of Henry's theme following "Scherzo," and the film version utilizes a sappy version of the Raiders March. I would have preferred Henry's theme, but why, in the first place? It seems like Williams had to get his soaring love theme in, and since there is no female protagonist, he settled for the father. Weird.

Raiders is pretty much perfect. It has the best mix/sound quality, too.

[Romão 2,274]

I could think of many reasons why each one of the scores might be superior to the other 2. They are all so unique.

But I do agree Raiders feels almost like a symphony, with perfect structure.

[Red 75]

This was an incredibly hard choice to make, since I consider all of the Indy scores to be equal in one way or another.

With that being said, I voted for Raiders.

Rabbit--who feels bad about choosing one over the others.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Last Crusade. It is more balanced then TOD, which is an almost non-stop adrenaline rush, and it's more varied then Raiders.

All 3 are great scores though.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

I can't vote on account of I own neither ROTLA nor TOD. Where can I find them? for a respectable price, that is.

[Datameister 2,037]

but on the other hand, The Last Crusade has Belly of the Steel Beast -- the BEST action cue of the Indy Trilogy, IMHO -- and Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra, which I would call pretty darn original.

I disagree completely on the first and agree wholeheartedly on the second. "Belly of the Steel Beast" has always grated on my nerves as a relatively uninspired action cue (except those trumpet licks like the one at about 2:39). The Scherzo is delightful, though I must say I prefer the Spielberg/Williams Collaboration recording to the one on the OST.

[Morlock 11]

The Last Crusade. It is more balanced then TOD, which is an almost non-stop adrenaline rush, and it's more varied then Raiders.

All 3 are great scores though.

I agree. To me, the Indy scores were always the purest of the JW classics to me, the only ones where I've always loved the films and score.

[Beowulf 4]

Definitely ToD for me, guess because I it was the first score/movie I was exposed to. I know that I always had a soft-spot for Short Round's theme because I always wanted to be him galavanting around with Indy.

Many will probably agree with me that ToD is the worst Indy MOVIE so far...

Not me, I think it's the best of the bunch for real action and adventure. But then again, I don't tend to judge any of the films against the other.

[Diego 21]

For some reason I can't decide between the Indy scores, from Star Wars, ESB is my favorite, from Potter, PS is my favorite, but I can't pick a clear favorite from the Indy films. Crusade actually got me into Williams' music as it was the first non Star Wars score I listened to completely and made me want to get the rest of the trilogy (which wasn't easy) and then other scores. Raiders is the original and it's just great. TOD is also great although it suffers from a poor release, perhaps if I listened to a expanded version it would be my favorite.

[Ollie 1,059]

Raiders. I agree with robthehand although I don't tire of LC.

Haven't we done this before?

[John Crichton 4]

Haven't we done this before?

Probably.

All three are masterpieces. But Last Crusade is my favorite, barely, followed by Temple of Doom and Raiders. In contrast to some comments here, I actually don't mind a little "overspotting", if it really is that. It's sometimes nice to hear Williams take a bit of a wander off the path, as long as it's interesting and doesn't get too aimless.

[King Mark 3,624]

ToD is really starting to grate on me. "The Mine Car Chase" is a tearfully boring cue. It's also incredibly complex. It seems that Williams sought to underscore the breakneck pace of the film (after the Thuggees are encountered, of course) with orchestral mayhem. Even the Raiders March is over-orchestrated, with Short Round's theme playing counterpoint to it in the end credits. More isn't always better. I never really fell for Marion's theme, but Willie's isn't very good, either. It's all wrong for the character. I don't like to make blanket statements, though.

I disagree 1000%.I also think that statement is a bit arrogant ,sorry...

ToD is #2 on my list of all times best Williams scores after ESB.The Raiders March statement (and build up to) when Indy swings into the mine car with his whip is one of the best Williams scoring moment ever.

k.M. who remembers freaking out when the film version Finale wasn't on the OST

[The Dark Trilogy 39]

Definitely Raiders of the Lost Ark.

This is my favorite score ever!

[bondo 33]

TEMPLE OF DOOM, without a doubt, is my favorite. As someone previously mentioned, the current CD release doesn't quite do the score justice. It's the most exotic and adrenaline-fueled score of the three, though I love them all. There are almost too many favorite moments to mention! The Trek, Welcome to Pankot Palace, Nocturnal Activities, and the entire finale, starting with the Parade of the Slave Children.

A criminally underrated movie and score, one of Williams' best.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

The Last Crusade. It is more balanced then TOD, which is an almost non-stop adrenaline rush, and it's more varied then Raiders.

All 3 are great scores though.

I think I agree with you, because I love Last Crusade so much. But then again, Raiders is the most "Indy" score.

[fommes 153]

Today, I've mostly been voting for... Temple of Doom.

[nicholas 1]

I speak as something of an outsider here since I am not a great fan of the films (they've just always been there, somehow, usually at Christmas) and I rarely listen to the scores (the only one I don't own is "Temple of Doom" - why does this score not appear to be reviewed on Filmtracks, by the way?). I am not a huge adherent of "action music" and since these are action films and action scores par excellence I guess that must be the underlying reason for my comparative lack of enthusiasm.

The single track I do love, however, comes from "The Last Crusade" and that is "The Penitient Man Will Pass". The beautiful simple tune in this track, which I imagine to be the oft-quoted "Grail theme" is amongst the most haunting that Williams has ever penned. I only wish we heard it more often in the soundtrack, or that it was given a concert piece treatment. Has it ever been?

Apologies if I make lost of glaring imbecilities above - I'm just more of an "Angela's Ashes" man.

[Josh500 1,615]

The Scherzo is delightful, though I must say I prefer the Spielberg/Williams Collaboration recording to the one on the OST.

At first I assumed that the faster, more energetic version of Scherzo was the new arrangement for the Spielberg/Williams Collaboration album. The version heard in the movie sounds much slower -- but that's just music fitted to the action. The concert version during the End Credits sounds a lot like the version found on the Spielberg/Williams CD.

[Beowulf 4]

I speak as something of an outsider here since I am not a great fan of the films (they've just always been there, somehow, usually at Christmas) and I rarely listen to the scores (the only one I don't own is "Temple of Doom" - why does this score not appear to be reviewed on Filmtracks, by the way?). I am not a huge adherent of "action music" and since these are action films and action scores par excellence I guess that must be the underlying reason for my comparative lack of enthusiasm.

The single track I do love, however, comes from "The Last Crusade" and that is "The Penitient Man Will Pass". The beautiful simple tune in this track, which I imagine to be the oft-quoted "Grail theme" is amongst the most haunting that Williams has ever penned. I only wish we heard it more often in the soundtrack, or that it was given a concert piece treatment. Has it ever been?

Apologies if I make lost of glaring imbecilities above - I'm just more of an "Angela's Ashes" man.

No need to apologize - the simple fact is that when you hear ToD in all its explosive glory, you'll change your mind - that's the point, not too many people have actually *listened* to this absolute gem of a score.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You can get a very good idea of the score just by watching the film. The music is not exactly subtle now it it. And it's mixed loudly.

[QMM 4]

Where's Joe, he needs to come in here and tell us how we're all morons and TLC is shit.

Max-who votes for all three but if forced to, choose TLC

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I voted for Raiders, which is th score in the car at the moment.

Then I would have voted for TOD.

[Red 75]

But not TLC, right?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

You can hardly complain about Joe's way of expressing his opinion if you purposefully bait him.

Ray Barnsbury

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Ray is right.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Joe could act his age, not not allow him to be baited like that.

[Josh500 1,615]

Joe could act his age, not not allow him to be baited like that.

Stefan, I think Joe is now what you used to be on this MB.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Then Joe is far better then what I have become.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

wait a minute, I didn't say anything bad about the TLC, I simple talked about the good. I wasn't baited actually, I hadn't posted in this thread, and it was just a coicidence that I posted right after ?man baited me. Still I did not take the bait, and I have expressed why I think Raiders and TOD are superior on this board many times, better than most people can manage.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hook....

Line.........

and....

Sinker...............

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I feel like Joe deserves a cookie now!

Ray Barnsbury

[John Crichton 4]

Or at least a round of applause.

[jerrygollay 0]

To me Raiders is a perfect score , too bad the expended edition doesn't include the second part of the " Discovering the Ark" but in the film It works perfect !

I remember to have seen this movie at least 30 time over a period of 2 years in the different theater it was showed , just to enjoy the full score , I was 15 years young then !!!

TOD have its moments , but to much "mickey mousing" to me ...Last Crusade haven't really good action cues " Belly of steel beast " sounds better on the film than on the CD , the sherzo for motorcycle is great , if you don't know the scherzo of the 8th symphonie of Vaughan Williams , I didn't like to much the film , it as very bad special effects , and miss the adventurous of the first film ! When I think they are doing another one ....

[Red 75]

You can hardly complain about Joe's way of expressing his opinion if you purposefully bait him.

Ray Barnsbury

I wasn't baiting him. I personally have never heard Joe's rants against TLC, and I thought that he might tell me why he hates it.

Or something like that.

[Morlock 11]

Or, you could search for it.

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6473&hl=

[Josh500 1,615]

TOD have its moments , but to much "mickey mousing" to me ...

I think the movie itself has also much "mickey mousing" (sometimes it feels like a parody of the original Indy to me), and that's why the music's also gotta have lots of "mickey mousing." Still . . . one of JW's very best.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

that sums up my feeling of the film, but not really the score, which I've addressed at greater lenghts elsewhere in this board, but will no bother to search for it.