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The Big Bad Star Trek XI Thread


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Truth be told, I'm not sure I'd want a "Space Seed" movie. The episode's great, Khan is great, TWOK is great...but I'd kinda rather see the sequel(s) take new directions altogether. Not that I'd complain if they actually went with this idea unless they really botched it.

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Well, in this new timeline/dimension/universe, the Botany Bay is still drifting in space, asleep. The timeline skewed upon arrival of the Narada, so everything prior to that is common. The opportunity is there, but since Kirk hasn't encountered it [yet], Khan doesn't even know him. I think a Space Seed remake would be intriguing, but it's not a very original idea. Enough critics are claiming that Star Trek 11 itself is already similar to Wrath of Khan, so why make it more obvious and borrow even more plot elements from that episode by remaking its episode basis? I'm sure there are plenty of other TOS-episodes to directly inspire an alternate universe movie. You don't pay homage to the greatest Trek film ever by deliberately trying to remake it again.

I suppose it would be illogical to ask Spock Prime to stay on as liaison to outline possible future events for Kirk and crew to encounter, because that would be cheating and just cheapen Nimoy's role as a cameo actor. I doubt Spock Prime should even tell young Spock that he would ultimately die as a result of a Botany Bay encounter.

I would like to see a Star Trek 12/2 that addresses the political or intrigue that now affects the quadrant. 47 Klingon ships were destroyed. How many of our familiar Klingon captains out of Kang, Kor, Koloth, Kruge, and Chang are left? The Klingon Empire ought to want war with the Federation for not preventing the time intrusion that saw such a one-sided massacre of their fleet.

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Interesting that there were 47 ships destroyed, isn't it. ;)

Why is that?

Haha, I never even knew this before. Leave it to Stef to know this. Fun stuff.

From Memory Alpha, the free Star Trek reference:

The number 47 makes frequent recurrences in dialog and on computer screens in Star Trek.

The origin of the significance of 47 can be traced to The Next Generation and Voyager writer Joe Menosky, who attended Pomona College in California. There is a club at Pomona called The 47 Society, which claims that there exists a mathematical proof that all numbers are equal to 47, and that the number 47 occurs with greater frequency in nature than other numbers.

Joe Menosky first started including references to 47 in his scripts in the fourth season of TNG, and the in-joke quickly caught on among the rest of the staff. Since then, references to 47 have been included in many episodes of all the modern series.

When asked about the significance of the number, Rick Berman once joked, "47 is 42, corrected for inflation" referring to 42 being "the answer to the ultimate question of Life, the Universe, and Everything" according to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams.

The number 47, its reverse of 74, or a multiple of 47 occurs in some way or other in almost every episode of this program and its spin-offs. Some examples are listed here:

* In Star Trek Generations, Scotty manages to beam up only 47 El-Aurians before their ship is destroyed by the energy ribbon.

* In the TNG episode "Darmok," Worf reports a particle gradient of 4/7.

* In the DS9 episode "Whispers," the planet Parada 4 has seven moons.

* In the Voyager episode "Non Sequitur," Harry Kim lives in apartment 4-G, G being the seventh letter of the alphabet. The intentionality of this reference to 47 was confirmed by Brannon Braga, the writer of that episode.

* In the 2009 film "Star Trek," the Enterprize was built in Sector 47 of the Riverside Shipyards, 47 Klingon ships are said to have been destroyed by Nero's ship, and 17.43 of the Starfleet Code

From Star Trek, the 47 was carried on into modern pop culture and nowadays appears frequently in motion pictures, television shows and in music, contributing to the 47 society belief/myth.

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Khan was a genius move for a second original Star Trek film because he was a personal villain for Shatner's Kirk, by virtue of the events of Space Seed. He's not a personal villain for Pine's Kirk because they've never met. A new Khan film would feel contrived and forced, by trying to get this new timeline to the point where Khan wants to kill Kirk. We've already had that conflict with Nero vs. Spock(s).

It would be JJ Abrams' way of admitting that his new Star Trek universe isn't such a radical departure from established Trek canon, as he tries to align his new future onto that which we've seen before. Yes, the S.S. Botany Bay is drifting in space, Khan still inside. But if they can't top Montalban's performance, there's no conceivable reason to wake him up on screen. I admit it would be fun to watch this bigger, badder Enterprise get hijacked, and Kirk have to recapture it. Maybe this time Khan will actually meet Chekov. But tell a different story.

Are they going to film how Pine's Kirk falls for Carol Marcus? Is there any telling that David Marcus will exist in this timeline? It's a safe bet that Saavik no longer exists. I'd rather watch Pine's Kirk truly take us where no one has gone before, instead of tell the same stories from the other movies but with different actors playing the characters.

I don't want to see Star Trek fall into the trap of "the more things change, the more they stay the same." I'd like to think that even after 40 years, that's not true.

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No need to rehash anything. Why would they go with Khan when they've just opened up the timeline to do anything they want? Let's keep things at least semi-original here... I'd really like a new villain that doesn't have some personal vendetta against Kirk or anyone else. Let's just have a bad SOB that needs to be stopped.

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Yes, they shouldn't remake any of the older movies. For one thing, none of them are old enough, but for another, those were the adventures those characters had in their 30s and 40s (or whatever). The new movie series should tell stories these characters had in their 20s.

I wouldn't mind them redoing some of the ideas from the original series, but they should leave the movies alone.

I just hope they don't do any time travel stories, and I agree with many people who are saying that hte next movie should feature Klingons as the bad guys

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Remaking "Space Seed" and The Wrath of Khan would be a terrible idea not just because of its lack of the originality but because the way it would work on screen. Or the way it wouldn't work. The nature of "Space Seed" is not that of a feature film, especially one following this new film with its enormous scope. So the writers would have to cram both "Space Seed" and The Wrath of Khan into a single film, despite the necessary decade or so that separates them. Wouldn't that be awkward? Let's have an original story.

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I agree with LeBlanc and Crichton about Klingons for the next film; I think that's absolutely the way to go. I don't remember who said it, but I think it would be logical to see some of the repercussions of the 47 Klingon ships getting wiped out--although it doesn't necessarily have to go that way. With the new people getting into Trek here, it might also be a good place to give a bit of background information of the politics of this point in this timeline, particularly regarding the Klingons. I'm not saying it should necessarily go as far as the prequels, or be a rip-off of VI, but just sort of explaining what some of the tensions are, and dealing with that. Could be cool.

On the other hand, I would like for there to be something that's not a race at war with the Federation going on--I'd like there to be some kind of supernatural or mysterous type of plot element that will also integrate the more thoughtful side of Trek along with the action and character development.

The bottom line is, though, these guys have a multitude of options at their disposal now. There are so many ways they can go with this thing now, and I'm looking forward to seeing where they go.

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If there is one constant in the time travel stories is when an alternate reality is created, forces in time try as best as possible to move it back to the original reality. there are destinys that will not be denied.

I would like a Space Seed, Klingon story involving Kang, in his new ship the Batleth, a klingon ship, without a cloacking device becuase at this point they have not exchanged technology with the romulans.

In the end Khan helps Kirk defeat Kang, but dies in the effort, saving us a really bad sequel (like Terminator Salvation).

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Interesting that there were 47 ships destroyed, isn't it. :D

Why is that?

Haha, I never even knew this before. Leave it to Stef to know this. Fun stuff.

From Memory Alpha, the free Star Trek reference:

The number 47 makes frequent recurrences in dialog and on computer screens in Star Trek.

The origin of the significance of 47 can be traced to The Next Generation and Voyager writer Joe Menosky, who attended Pomona College in California. There is a club at Pomona called The 47 Society, which claims that there exists a mathematical proof that all numbers are equal to 47, and that the number 47 occurs with greater frequency in nature than other numbers.

Joe Menosky first started including references to 47 in his scripts in the fourth season of TNG, and the in-joke quickly caught on among the rest of the staff. Since then, references to 47 have been included in many episodes of all the modern series.

When asked about the significance of the number, Rick Berman once joked, "47 is 42, corrected for inflation" referring to 42 being "the answer to the ultimate question of Life, the Universe, and Everything" according to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams.

The number 47, its reverse of 74, or a multiple of 47 occurs in some way or other in almost every episode of this program and its spin-offs. Some examples are listed here:

* In Star Trek Generations, Scotty manages to beam up only 47 El-Aurians before their ship is destroyed by the energy ribbon.

* In the TNG episode "Darmok," Worf reports a particle gradient of 4/7.

* In the DS9 episode "Whispers," the planet Parada 4 has seven moons.

* In the Voyager episode "Non Sequitur," Harry Kim lives in apartment 4-G, G being the seventh letter of the alphabet. The intentionality of this reference to 47 was confirmed by Brannon Braga, the writer of that episode.

* In the 2009 film "Star Trek," the Enterprize was built in Sector 47 of the Riverside Shipyards, 47 Klingon ships are said to have been destroyed by Nero's ship, and 17.43 of the Starfleet Code

From Star Trek, the 47 was carried on into modern pop culture and nowadays appears frequently in motion pictures, television shows and in music, contributing to the 47 society belief/myth.

Nonsense, the number 47 has been present in all of J.J. Abram's projects!

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First of all, Elmo Lewis, if someone took the time to explain something in great detail, like I did, don't just dismiss it as nonsense unless you've got some proof. If you take a stroll to Wikipedia or the Star Trek Wikipedia site Memory Alpha, you'll find the reasons I stated above why 47 is so significant.

Secondly, Wikipedia does offer this:

In various episodes of the television series Alias, Lost and Fringe, the number 47 makes an appearance. In Alias, the number 47 is central to the plot as it had significance in the work of Rambaldi; the elusive page from the Rambaldi manuscript is page 47. In the 2009 episode of Fringe, the number 47 is located on the wall surrounded by newspaper clippings. Indeed, here are 47 ways to kill a show, over at an Alias forum: http://allalias.com/forums/index.php?showt...mp;#entry694895

In Matt Reeves' movie Cloverfield, the area where the tape is found is called Area 447. Also, when the main characters are looking for Beth McIntyre in her apartment, they pass apartment 47. 47 appears again on a subway sign.

Coincidence? Maybe. Obviously, the number 47 has been established in pop culture for decades, because its appearances in ROTJ and BTTF significantly predate any Star Trek TNG work. But most, if not all, of J.J. Abrams' projects have come after Star Trek TNG first popularized this 47's Society's reverence of the number, so I give dibs to Star Trek.

Besides, if you pick a random two-digit non-zero number, you've got a 1.01% chance of picking 47. That's as good as any.

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Orci and Kurtzman have had another online chat with the fans. The highlights:

Open to TNG character in sequel (if done ‘organically’)

10,000 surviving Vulcans does NOT count off-worlders

Vulcan’s red sky (was) seasonal

SpockPrime will adhere to a ‘Temporal Prime Directive’ to minimize introducing future tech into new timeline

Enterprise being built at Riverside Iowa Shipyard to ‘commemorate the sacrifice’ of George Kirk

New timeline still bound to canon events that took place in the prime timeline (like Botany Bay, V’Ger, etc)

Spock Prime’s viewing of the destruction of Vulcan was cinematic license and ‘impressionistic’ and could have involved a telescope or other device

No ‘canon’ explanation for what Nero and crew were doing for 25 years between Kirk’s birth and arrival of Spock Prime, open to ‘fan fiction’

The Admiral Archer mentioned by Scotty is the same Jonathan Archer from Enterprise (and Enterprise is part of new timeline)

The attack on the Narada put Winona Kirk into labor preventing Kirk from being born in Iowa (as in the Prime timeline)

Inconsistencies between film and "Countdown" can be explained that the comic is not canon

Keenser was in Starfleet while on Delta Vega, just like Scotty

Paramount expected to make the script available (checking on this)

Kid on road (’Johnny’) was "originally meant to be" Kirk’s brother George Jr. and "still could be"

There’s money, or some kind of credit system in this universe

The second ‘lightning storm’ referred to in the film was created when SpockPrime’s jellyfish arrived back in time

Bridge viewscreen changed to window/HUD to justify the bridge’s placement atop the ship instead of in a more secure location

Damon Lindelof contributed ‘a lot’ to the story of Star Trek

Lindelof will be ‘breaking the story’ with Bob and Alex on sequel, Bob and Alex will write final screenplay

Survivors and telemetry from Narada attack on Kelvin exposed Federation to Romulans (explaining why Kirk knows about Romulans and so film does not violate canon of "Balance of Terror")

Although ‘Prime’ is used to distinguigh Nimoy’s Spock, the team have no name for the new timeline

Star Trek wiki Memory Alpha was an ‘invaluable resource’

New Stardates work by taking the year (as in 2233), with the month and day expressed as a decimal point from .1 to .365 (as in the 365 days of the year)

Full transcript:

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/22/orci-and-k...ekmovie-fan-qa/

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How can an alternate timeline still be bound by events from later series? That doesn't make any sense to me. Spock Prime would know of those events but to everyone else they are irrelevant and had not happened.

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This alternate timeline is still bound by events that would not be directly or indirectly influenced by the events laid out in this film. Of course Jonathan Archer would still have existed in this timeline, because this timeline and the "proper" timeline were one and the same, up until the moment the Narada peeked its ugly head out of that blackhole. I'm pretty sure in retrospect that the TV show "Enterprise" was careful to not show the faces of Romulans to Vulcans or Starfleet, thereby honoring the canon of "Balance of Terror."

But as for TNG events occurring as they should, there would still be a Jean-Luc Picard who grows up to join Starfleet, etcetera, unless the writers want to demonstrate that the destruction of the Kelvin and other events would have prevented such events. Dr. Soong would still make Data. Galaxy class starships might still get made, but probably will be much more advanced as a result of future technology. Cardassia will still occupy Bajor for years and build Terek Nor. Stuff like that.

It's unclear whether characters like Tuvok and Sela would end up existing in this timeline. It really sounds like Orci and Kurtzman are bending over backwards for the fans regarding this movie and the infinite possibilities they've unlocked. I like that, I really do.

Eh. If you dressed the number 47 up in a cute bikini or got me really drunk, then I might masturbate over it. Otherwise, I was just defending one cut and paste session with another.

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Yep, a brother he had. George Samuel Kirk, Jim called him Sam. We actually saw him dead in "Operation: Annihilate!" and almost saw him in the new film. The kid little Jimmy drives past was originally his brother Sam but the scene was altered to indicate he was only a friend of Jim's. The novelization includes the character in a scene just before the stolen car bit, with the kid by the road back to being Sam.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/George_Samuel_Kirk

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I thought as Kirk drives by he yells out the name George, making it obvious he's his brother. I have read the new novelization and also read an interview with Alan Dean Foster. He said he did take some liberties with the book but based on some other interviews it appears the book contains some scenes that were in various versions of the script that never made it to the final film.

Adjusted for inflation Star Trek still has while to go. ST:TMP would now top out at $240 million with inflation. However Star Trek is expected to finish in 3rd place this weekend with the new Terminator film taking 2nd and Night At The Museum 2 finishing 1st.

Blume's ridiculously long signature.

It is virtually impossible for me to have anymore children, thank god.

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