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Film Music Is Dead


Sandor
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After Rock N' Roll Is Dead and recently, Hip-Hop Is Dead, I'm beginning to wonder: when did the film music industry became such a dull place? Don't get me wrong: there are still great new scores out there. Always have been and always will. But when the majority of the 'big-budget blockbuster films' get scored by Media Ventures-type "composers", I wonder what happened to a time when the 'big' films were scored by more classically-trained composers (and were obviousley made by studios and directors who valued a symphonic score)?

What kind of score would Pirates Of The Carribean or Batman Begins have been given, if they were made 20 years ago? (Ok, Burton's Batman stems from 1989, but that actually proves my point).

We will get to a point where the 'orchestra driven' scores are becoming rare and perhaps only applied to smaller, more artistic films.

Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic. It just occured to me I hadn't bought a single new score in 2006 (and that's not just because Johnny is taking a sabbatical...)

What are your opinions on the current state of film, ahum, music?

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It's pretty dire to be honest.

Last year I bought only 3 new score CD's, one of them was because it used John Williams themes.

There are still good composers around, but they don't seem to get the interesting, big-budget stuff anymore (even action specialist Silvestri seems to be trapped in comedies.)

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I know what you mean. It's disheartening to see the cookie-cutter MV style score get so much use and recognition (and even praise!) these days. But still, I don't feel that quality, orchestral film music is dying or anything like that at all. Just look at the middle of the century when pop/rock soundtracks were dominating the industry. It led people to mourn the death of the film score, just like some are doing now, until Williams revitalized it with his symphonic stylings. These things always move in trends. And in the meantime, I find plenty of enjoyable music out there that's just as good as anything written at any other stage in film music history.

Ray Barnsbury

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i agree with Roald.It used to be whenever there was a big summer film,I'd almost automatically buy the score because it would be Williams,Horner,Barry,Goldsmith...ect...And even lesser composers in the 80's gave out decent efforts,like scores for Clash of the Titans and Last Starfighter

Now we have media ventures or Gustavo Santaollala

I also have bought about 3 scores in the last 3 years.Pan's Labirinth was a step in the right direction.

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While I never really counted my self as a film score fan, I find my self less and less intrested in contemporary film music. As stated above, all the big budget films go to louzy composers. Of course, you cans till find great joys if you look around, but for the most part, I'm not interested in the new batch of composers working for film.

Yet, I'm sure that in the future, great film music will return, and we will all be glad and happy, and have something to sing about.

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Well, Silvestri isn't really trapped in comedies because NatM was the first comedy he scored since 2002 (not counting The Wild which is animation and therefore a whole different affair) and all of his assignments are still big budget movies. But I agree, it is obvious that he either does not receive enough offers he deserves or that he simply isn't interested in doing what is being offered to him. He also left several projects recently (click comes to mind). At least he still has Zemeckis and Sommers who both continue to be successful and allow him to be creative.

I also noticed the general current lack of outstanding material in filmmusic. It's probably because the requirements to a score and composer have changed. Today, everything in post-pro is done at the last minute and nothing is really locked anymore so they need simple scores made of simple constructions that can be adjusted in the last possible minute. Folks like badelt and co. are the perfect choice to achieve that.

Just recently, Beltrami was said to have composed a score for weinstein's TmnT that was described as an exciting mixture of hellboy and indiana jones. Of course it was rejected and guess who came in to rescore? Klaus Badelt!

Quality filmmusic is rarely given a chance these days. Occasionally there is something that qualifies as good but compared to standarts 10 or 20 years ago this stuff just passes as average.

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The word I'd use is bleak. While Williams' run from '99-'05 was his best since the Golden Years IMO, the rest of the industry has had precious little to celebrate. And with more and more directors opting for an MV style, hacks like Santonella getting honored over and over, and Williams seeming to settle in to some form of semi-retirement, things look...bleak.

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I'm never one to say "The End Is Near!" or be pessimistic. I always try to stay as optomistic as possible or as... realistic... looking at all the facts and such.

I think that perhaps the reality of the situation is setting in.

Think about it:

Films are being made faster, shorter, with more CG, with less preparation, and with less story than ever before.

All of these have a deliterious effect on ones ability to compose good music for a film.

Take Jurassic Park 3 for example. Many people LOATHED the Don Davis score for the film, but if you explore the history of the film, you find that not only was no script available until nearly the entire film was filmed, but there were a perponderance of CG shots that would simply make the composers job that much harder.

The battle between the Rex and Spinosaur for example. Don Davis composed it to be a battle between his Spino motif and JW Carnivore/rex motif. But it doesn't fit the film (I dont' mean in length, I mean in reflection of whats seen). This is because he composed music to an empty plate. There was no action to connect the music to. There was nothing.

Now, granted, War of the Worlds was made very quickly, and the score was wonderful, but you have to remember that it had the two best and brightest people and perhaps one of the most prolific composer/director relationships connected to it. Not to mention, Spielberg has an ear for music so he could tell John exactyl what he wanted.

I've also noticed that theamount of editing going on is going up.

JP3 had a lot of the brass lines removed in the film mix's. Memoirs of a Geisha is heavily edited as was War of the Worlds and Episode III. Music tracked and looped, layered, remixed, etc.

To me, It seems that between the amount of time that goes into making films, composers dont' have much of a chance to truly grow. The CG animation that is taking over also is making it hard as is the lack of good storys to tell.

Directors have, more than ever, the ability to take what the composer did and completely change it (perhaps for the better), but at the same time, it's not true to the composer.

As well, I've noticed that a lot of the newer composers and even older ones have all fallen into this rut of... blandness.

I wonder if perhaps good orchestras are hard to come by and harder to be paid for. It seems like... the orchestras used are not up to par with (obviously) the LSO... but what I mean by that is that subtlety seems to have been lost.

So... I just think that all together, the environment has changed and has theirfore, called for less than stellar scores.

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I was about to give a big up to original contemporary scores by mentioning Howard Shore's tremendous LOTR, even if it does mean that we have to rely on the big franchises to provide us with something to get our teeth into these days, but then I remembered Elfman's generic (though perfectly suitable) Spidey scores.

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There will always be exeptions. Like LOTR. Even in the years between The Graduate and 1977's Star Wars, there were some amazing scores written. The question really is, how long will the more modern, Zimmerish type of scoring dominate the cinematic world?

GoodMusician; you post is dead-on.

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Because all the big producers just want someone who can turn out a score in a week and a half, rather than someone who would take time to do a quality and thoughtful job.

That, plus the fact that now we have synth-based scoring programs, anyone who can press the keys on a keyboard can write a score. "Composers" now don't need any orchestral or musical talent or training.

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We need for there to be a score to a big, epic, popular, and possibly ground-breaking flick. That film needs to gross nearly a Billion dollars worldwide, spawn sequels, gain a tremendous fanbase and have a big grand Symphonic Score. This score would be composed by an up and coming composer, who had only had a few modest hits, and the albums would become extremely popular. When this happens, then we would have a repeat of the Star Wars, which probably saved film music back in '77.

Oh wait... thats already happened with Lord of the Rings, and that didn't seem to work.

I guess there will be no new hope.

Then again, this is a new era, something different has to show film directors, and the composers that composing for symphonies is worthwhile. Maybe Justin Timberlake could compose a symphonic score, that would likely prove to be popular, and serve as proof anyone can write for an orchestra.

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I have still interest in film music but not in that what is produced at the moment. The most cd's I buy are releases from older scores that are given to us by Intrada and FSM. A new (and of course old) Williams would always be welcome.

Nemesis

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I watch fewer and fewer newer movies these days compared to my youth (oh, many moons ago when the world was young, and bird and beast and flower were one with man, and death was but a dream!), so that explains why I also feel like some here that the "golden era" may have passed. Most of the movie scores I listen to now, are scores of the past. Mid 70's and up to the mid to late 1990's. I agree that these carbon copy pirates of the carribean style scores are very tiresome, and even more so when it seems everyone I know seems to "love" those types, and don't even notice at all what I think are amazing works of art. I also think there is truth in what someone said here that the "format" of western movies in general is probably to blame, with it taking a very "advert/commercials" style, and that is affecting the possibilities of film scoring and the form it can take. Quick cuts, etc. One thing is sure. In a UK/ U.S movie made movie thesedays, the chances of getting something like Goldsmiths "Enterprise" are probably nil. No space is allowed for it. With a few exceptions, it seems to be "wham bam, thank you mam". It is why I find myself watching many more 'interenational cinema' movies nowadays. Even the storylines grab my attention right away when I read them on the back of DVD. Storylines that deal with issues that the U.S/UK movie makers don't want to touch because most of them are just out for money, and not wanting to "say" anything. Foreign movies often have so much more depth. They don't bludgeon you to death with stimulation. They leave plenty of space for "your" imagination and thought to flourish. I'm someone who doesn't "insist" on orchestral scores for a film score to be effective though. Some of the most effectives scores I know, have been ones that are extremely minimalist. But I do love the huge orchestra style. Occasionally I see movies here that show me that all is "not" lost. But increasingly it seems movies don't deal with interesting subjects anymore. As I rarely watch the trash on TV anymore either (if we get something interesting on British TV now, then it is rare), I feel it is just the quality of western tv/movies going down hill in general. "Shallow", is the word I'd probably use to describe the state of western media nowadays.

Melange - "I remember when all of this was trees" :o

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We need for there to be a score to a big, epic, popular, and possibly ground-breaking flick. That film needs to gross nearly a Billion dollars worldwide, spawn sequels, gain a tremendous fanbase and have a big grand Symphonic Score. This score would be composed by an up and coming composer, who had only had a few modest hits, and the albums would become extremely popular. When this happens, then we would have a repeat of the Star Wars, which probably saved film music back in '77.

See, I was thinking this too. I was trying to think of what would really get film scores back again and that was the only thing I could think of.

Lord of the Rings is DEFINATELY an example of that at work and during the years it was comming out, I remmeber how fruitful that was. My orchestra in High School played themes from that. Hell, I had a solo in one...

Same with Episode I and Harry Potter.

I went to my high school orchestra teachers last concert and they played Pirates of the Caribean and I remmeber laughing, saying to the person next to me "Is this Pirates of the Caribean? Or is it Gladiator? Or is it blah blah blah" and I went on and on...and we laughed because its true lol...

It just seems to me that hollywood has... detracted from the format and has been pushing composed, directors, writers... into this place where there is no chance to really do anything. The Bottom Line seems to be whats important.

I remember arguing not too long ago for the score to Brokeback Mountain.... that we shouldn't shun it... but now I kinda see that, like Zimmer or Horner scores, they all seem to be the same and not truly inspirational or varied or different... just... the same, and for certain films (Brokeback Mountain, Gladiator, Titanic) the Film just happened to... FIT the composer... whereas it should be the other way around...

I was thinking the other night how much I love John Williams ability to do anything! Afterall, isn't that the purpose of a film composer?

Now it seems the purpose has shifted to creating some sort of dead sound that is called music underneath the video.

At the same time, it seems that subtlety has been lost. The ability to know when the score need to back down and when to grow.

It's kinda like what JW said in an interview for Episode I:

"When we write music for films, we don't have the audiences full attention auraly: with the ear. There going to hear a lot of soundeffects and hear dialogue and maybe they'll hear music once or twice--if they see the film twice. So, generally speaking, particularly in films like this, the music has to be--you might say simple--it has to be straight forward. You have to say what you mean pretty clearly. If that means to be simple and direct and have the motivic represetations of character be simple things or things you can hear through all the dialogue and through all the distraction, that may be a good thing."

I remember when I got the new batman score and pirates, how... confused I was. There is no contrast... there is no lull... there is no depth. It's just bombastic, loud, in your face. If you open the files in a music editor, they LOOK like pop songs (the whole window is filled with the frequency as if someone turned up the music really really loud.

On top of that, one thing I've always felt was the music... comes from somewhere else. That music is almost a religious experence. It's actually extreamly intimate. Its truly the only thing a person can do that... invades another person.

Sound is truly an invasive thing. You speak, sing, make a noise, and you force the air out. This air hits other air, which eventually reaches the ear,and hits the ear drum, which moves boens and fluid and then sends eletrical signal. It's ...very intimate and invasive. It touches people like no other medium...

And I honestly feel that this... revernce has been lost. Not to keep tooting his horn, but one of the things I love about John Williams is how... impossibly humble he is. And I truly wonder if he, like me, believes that music isn't so much something that you do... or that you own or made yourself... but rather, something that comes from somewhere else... the ether, and that you happen to be a vessel for and which you can use your knowledge, us your talent, and write it down and send it out...and truly touch people.

And I feel that has been lost. People are so wrapped up in the theory and shit and no one stops to think "but what does it do."

In my composition class, our first project was to just write something--so the teacher could hear where we are as composers.

We all wrote pieces and we played them for the class and everyone had written these nice little things. Students in the class analyzed them and would determine what they were.

I got up, and played the piece I wrote.

I was the ONLY person in the class to cause EVERYONE in the room...to gasp... literally...gasp.

I finished and it was silent. No one said a word... so I took my piece and I sat down.

Still no one talked...

FInally, Josiah said "Is that [insert mode here]."

I had no idea what he meant and so I said, "I dont' know."

The rest of the class time was wasted on trying to figure out what I'd written. Everyone was stumped. Even the teacher wasn't entirely sure which mode it was... or anything. And they kept asking me what it was... and I kept saying "I dont' know. I just wrote it."

And they didn't understand how I could have written something and not understood it. Finally by the end of class, they'd come up with some tentative name for it but were still unsure.

TO me... that was time wasted. Was it truly important to quantify it? To give it some name and put it into some category? It did what it was suppose to...touch people in a way that only art can.

And none of the music I've heard lately has touched me.

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Film music will never truely be dead. Maybe good film music will fade, but film music itself will never die.

Its just the way of things.

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Film music today is awful. It all sound like wallpaper.

All of these so called next best thing composers are nothing special, their music bores me. Shermur...yawn, Brian Tyler, what is so special about him?, Ottman..zzzzzzzzzzzz, Desplat ho-hum, Hans Zimmer and his stable of composers....well we've beaten that dead horse, the list could go on and on. I've tried to be open minded and give them a chance but their music just doesn't do anything for me.

Listening to all thses composers I feel like I've been there heard it already. I've found few scores to buy outside of John Williams, in fact most of my purchases are from Varese, FSM, Intrada, LaLaLand or of music written before 1990.

Alot of it has to do with the films being made today, as stated in the above posts. Even if these composers were truly talented they wouldn't be able to compose a proper score because today's directors have no sense as to what good film music is.

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Whatever Happened to Great Movie Music? - Elmer Bernstein, 1972

Exactly. And look what came after that quote.

I feel like people around here enjoy lamenting the "old days" more than realizing the merits of some of today's film music. Yeah, there's lots of crap, but there's also a lot of really good stuff. Last year gave us Lady in the Water, X-Men: The Last Stand, Charlotte's Web, Blood Diamond, The New World, and other scores I'm not as familiar with but which have been widely praised, like The Queen, Pan's Labyrinth, Casino Royale, and more. These scores have themes, motifs, structure, colorful orchestrations, interesting and varied styles, etc. It's just a shame for artists like James Newton Howard and Danny Elfman, among others, to be lumped among the MV crew when people claim that good film music is dead. That's simply not the case. The scores at the bottom of the barrel don't cancel out those at the top.

Ray Barnsbury

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I don't think, except a few, have claimed that film music isdead. Most people have agreed that something needs to happen to bring about a more ...thoughtful approach to film scores.

Ironically, of all the scores you just listed, the only one I care for is Pan's Labyrinth.

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I don't think, except a few, have claimed that film music isdead.
Dead, dire, bleak, average, bland, awful, wallpaper, no hope...close enough. And it's a gross generalization.
Ironically, of all the scores you just listed, the only one I care for is Pan's Labyrinth

Wow. I'm very sorry about that. I can see why you don't enjoy much out there now.

Ray Barnsbury

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Future of film music definately not dead but has slowed tremendously since Casino Royale and Happy Feet, lately I recommend Varese Sarabande's new releases to the Astronaut Farmer and Nomad- which is very remeniscent of Conan the Barbarian. Also Meet the Robinsons sounds pretty good some clips at cinemusic.net, We also have Rataouille and if miracles can happen Order of the Phoenix. I'm probably one of the few who thinks Ottman's Silver Surfer has possibilities.

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I watch fewer and fewer newer movies these days compared to my youth (oh, many moons ago when the world was young, and bird and beast and flower were one with man, and death was but a dream!), so that explains why I also feel like some here that the "golden era" may have passed. Most of the movie scores I listen to now, are scores of the past. Mid 70's and up to the mid to late 1990's. I agree that these carbon copy pirates of the carribean style scores are very tiresome, and even more so when it seems everyone I know seems to "love" those types, and don't even notice at all what I think are amazing works of art. I also think there is truth in what someone said here that the "format" of western movies in general is probably to blame, with it taking a very "advert/commercials" style, and that is affecting the possibilities of film scoring and the form it can take. Quick cuts, etc. One thing is sure. In a UK/ U.S movie made movie thesedays, the chances of getting something like Goldsmiths "Enterprise" are probably nil. No space is allowed for it. With a few exceptions, it seems to be "wham bam, thank you mam". It is why I find myself watching many more 'interenational cinema' movies nowadays. Even the storylines grab my attention right away when I read them on the back of DVD. Storylines that deal with issues that the U.S/UK movie makers don't want to touch because most of them are just out for money, and not wanting to "say" anything. Foreign movies often have so much more depth. They don't bludgeon you to death with stimulation. They leave plenty of space for "your" imagination and thought to flourish. I'm someone who doesn't "insist" on orchestral scores for a film score to be effective though. Some of the most effectives scores I know, have been ones that are extremely minimalist. But I do love the huge orchestra style. Occasionally I see movies here that show me that all is "not" lost. But increasingly it seems movies don't deal with interesting subjects anymore. As I rarely watch the trash on TV anymore either (if we get something interesting on British TV now, then it is rare), I feel it is just the quality of western tv/movies going down hill in general. "Shallow", is the word I'd probably use to describe the state of western media nowadays.

My feelings exactly.

Melange - "I remember when all of this was trees" :o

And those were the days...

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Whatever Happened to Great Movie Music? - Elmer Bernstein, 1972

Exactly. And look what came after that quote.

Actually, it works both ways - and I wasn't quite sure myself what I was trying to say when I quoted that. Probably both aspects at once.

On the one hand, there was some "great movie music" in the early 70s. Goldsmith had already written a handful of his great masterpieces, and Williams was on the rise. North and Herrmann were busy, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some big names.

On the other hand (and this is speculation, since I wasn't there), I guess there was a noticeable drop in the amount of new quality scores. And that's something we seem to be experiencing now as well - at the very least on a subjective level. Personally, I do feel that there's been much less interesting new movie music since Goldsmith's death.

Yet there are still very good scores being written these days. Goldenthal usually comes up with something that's at least good, and if the movie provides the necessary scope, is good enough to probably stand the test of time. Aside from Williams, a few of the "old greats" are still in business, though not writing as much for the big screen - Kilar, Broughton, Morricone... Then there's the group of proven composers who are still writing good, sometimes great, music - Doyle, Fenton, Shore. And there are some promising new talents. Giacchino and Marianelli show potential, while Davis has already written some of the great scores of the last decade (I'm talking about the Matrix scores, obviously), even if he seems to have gone back into hiding for now. And some of the MV composers are actually beginning to write good stuff, like Powell, or Zimmer when he's not trying to do something "big".

In the end, we just don't have the same amount of big orchestral scores at the moment. Yet, looking at the movies (and there have been plenty of good ones recently, in my opinion), that type of score would be out of place in most of them. Perhaps the difference is that today's blockbusters (the genre which over the last decades got the "big" scores) are dropping in quality faster than ever and, probably for the same reasons, mostly get assembly line scores.

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When i was on one of my rare visits to an actual cinema recently to see 'Pan's Labyrinth' (which was laudable concept somewhat muddled in the filmic realization), the trailershow before was an atrocity....

or, in Billy Wilder's words, 'Thanks for the Warning!'

there was 'Pathfinder', 'Spiderman 3' (my stomach juices began to rise with sudden eruptions at this point), some Hilary-Swank-film about the biblical plagues in southern swamps (read: supernatural junk), a dire conspiracy thriller with Jim Carrey (forgot the title) and 3 other even worse things (300, SAW 3 etc.).

I don't consider seeing one of these films and i can say with almost 100% certainty that i'm not gonna buy or listen to one of those scores. On the other hand, i realize that there's so much to discover in filmic history, so what does it matter?

The only sad thing is that, indeed, the great scores for bad movies-ratio has diminished to the point where it's simply is no fun to be a film music fan anymore. The gibberish anticipation of a new announcement (John Williams has agreed to score "His Dark Materials", Jerry Goldsmith has agreed to score "300") is just....gone.

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I watch fewer and fewer newer movies these days compared to my youth (oh, many moons ago when the world was young, and bird and beast and flower were one with man, and death was but a dream!), so that explains why I also feel like some here that the "golden era" may have passed. Most of the movie scores I listen to now, are scores of the past. Mid 70's and up to the mid to late 1990's. I agree that these carbon copy pirates of the carribean style scores are very tiresome, and even more so when it seems everyone I know seems to "love" those types, and don't even notice at all what I think are amazing works of art. I also think there is truth in what someone said here that the "format" of western movies in general is probably to blame, with it taking a very "advert/commercials" style, and that is affecting the possibilities of film scoring and the form it can take. Quick cuts, etc. One thing is sure. In a UK/ U.S movie made movie thesedays, the chances of getting something like Goldsmiths "Enterprise" are probably nil. No space is allowed for it. With a few exceptions, it seems to be "wham bam, thank you mam". It is why I find myself watching many more 'interenational cinema' movies nowadays. Even the storylines grab my attention right away when I read them on the back of DVD. Storylines that deal with issues that the U.S/UK movie makers don't want to touch because most of them are just out for money, and not wanting to "say" anything. Foreign movies often have so much more depth. They don't bludgeon you to death with stimulation. They leave plenty of space for "your" imagination and thought to flourish. I'm someone who doesn't "insist" on orchestral scores for a film score to be effective though. Some of the most effectives scores I know, have been ones that are extremely minimalist. But I do love the huge orchestra style. Occasionally I see movies here that show me that all is "not" lost. But increasingly it seems movies don't deal with interesting subjects anymore. As I rarely watch the trash on TV anymore either (if we get something interesting on British TV now, then it is rare), I feel it is just the quality of western tv/movies going down hill in general. "Shallow", is the word I'd probably use to describe the state of western media nowadays.

Melange - "I remember when all of this was trees" :mrgreen:

It's a valid point. But I'd like to point out that there's plenty of what you call "foreign" films being made in the U.S. They just don't get as much attention as commercial, expensive releases. Some directors will shoot a commercial film to finance their more personal, independent projects.

-Ross, who surprisingly found himself enjoying The Station Agent the other day.

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Film music has been dead forver, don't ya know, as the Bernstein quote tells us. I think the film music fans are becoming less and less interested. If you know where to look, there are still great movies and great scores coming out.

Morlock- rather shocked that poeple are using the state of Blockbusters as a sign

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Or you are too willing. They are not that much worse. The fact that you've only heard three scores from 2006 says that you're not looking for music, not that it isn't there.

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Numbnuts!

I said I bought 3 scores, I said not I only listened to 3, you should learn the difference!

Nothing Desplat has done has really managed to grab me, it's competent, but pedestrian work.

The least said about Giachino the better.

Dario Marrionelli will probably get an Oscar becvause of his name, but so far I don't see him as the next saviour of film music. I could be wrong of course, Williams did stupid comedies for the early part of his career, primitive, backward cultures say Christ was a carpenter during his early years, who knows.

All I know is that for the forseeable future, I see nothing but darkness!

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blockbusters is the inroad for film musics access to the mass public, if its not good, then the public won't consume it, which weakens all film musics viability.

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Joe is correct.

Star Wars would not have been a best selling soundtreack if the movie would have flopped, save for Jaws, Titanic etc...etc.

The only soundtrack I know to become a hit completely independantly from it's film is Vangelis' Conquest of Paradise.

All of this of course begs the question.

Is Hans Zimmer the new Hitler, and has a established a new Thousand Year Reich that dominates soundtrracks everywere?

Discuss!

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I think people are so desperate for good film music they are proclaiming average to good scores as great.

JNH is avery good composer but Signs, Lady In The Water and The Village, while good scores are hardly great. Yet these are lavished upon as the next best thing, I seriously doubt that these will go down in history as great scores.

Casino Royale's score is given all quite a bit of acclaim, and while it is better than TWINE and DAD it's mostly cobbled together parts of previous Arnold works.

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Well, I agree that CR is no masterpiece, and that it is good.

I think people are so desperate for good film music they are proclaiming average to good scores as great.

JNH is avery good composer but Signs, Lady In The Water and The Village, while good scores are hardly great. Yet these are lavished upon as the next best thing, I seriously doubt that these will go down in history as great scores.

You're just plain wrong there. I agree about Lady in the Water, but Signs is one of the best scores ever, and The Village is also a special score (while not one of the best).

Numbnuts!

I said I bought 3 scores, I said not I only listened to 3, you should learn the difference!

Nothing Desplat has done has really managed to grab me, it's competent, but pedestrian work.

The least said about Giachino the better.

Dario Marrionelli will probably get an Oscar becvause of his name, but so far I don't see him as the next saviour of film music. I could be wrong of course, Williams did stupid comedies for the early part of his career, primitive, backward cultures say Christ was a carpenter during his early years, who knows.

All I know is that for the forseeable future, I see nothing but darkness!

Wow, you just named 3 composers. What about Glass? Shore? Isham? Newman? Powell? Danna? Yared? Morricone? Mansell?

And say that Desplat didn't grab you (he certainly didn't grab me until recently), but to call his work pedestrian is about as far from the truth as you can get. Film music rarely gets as important a shot in the wrist as it did when Desplat came to Hollywood.

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Wow, you just named 3 composers. What about Glass? Shore? Isham? Newman? Powell? Danna? Yared? Morricone? Mansell?

My respect for Morricone is boundless but he's a very acquired taste!

As for the others, good composers to be sure. But compare that list to the 80's and 90's.

Kamen, Goldsmith, Bernstein, Poledoris, Horner, Silvestri.

You'll agree that mine is the superiour list, right?

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Yes, I will. But you had 15 years to get used to those names. Let's talk in a decade, see where we are, shall we? As I'm sure there were people who compared those names to names in the 60's, and those names to those in the 40's.....

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Well, I agree that CR is no masterpiece, and that it is good.
I think people are so desperate for good film music they are proclaiming average to good scores as great.

JNH is avery good composer but Signs, Lady In The Water and The Village, while good scores are hardly great. Yet these are lavished upon as the next best thing, I seriously doubt that these will go down in history as great scores.

You're just plain wrong there. I agree about Lady in the Water, but Signs is one of the best scores ever, and The Village is also a special score (while not one of the best).

Signs, been there heard it with Goldsmith and Herrmann.

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Yes, I will. But you had 15 years to get used to those names. Let's talk in a decade, see where we are, shall we? As I'm sure there were people who compared those names to names in the 60's, and those names to those in the 40's.....

Then they would be fools to do so!

The late seventies to the late nineties was the best era for film scores ever!

Anyone that sees it differently is either a fool or insane.

Suggesting that Clint Mansell is the new Jerry Goldsmith or even the new Silvestri is an act of treason as far as I am concerned!

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All I know is that for the forseeable future, I see nothing but darkness!

You choose to see nothing but darkness.

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Can you not see that Morlock is whispering poison in your ears?

If I were Moderator I would have his post eradicated from this board and the very mention of him, would become an abomination!

Thats why you're not moderator. :mrgreen:

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It did what it was suppose to...touch people in a way that only art can.

And none of the music I've heard lately has touched me.

What a wonderful post, Goodmusician. It's too bad it got a little over looked. I really agree with him here though. There is much less respect for the ear of the audience, and what used to be called banter is now called a film score. Now granted there are valid reasons for why it is that way now, but none of them excuse the fact that Film Music should not be Video game music, in the sense that current video game music just keeps going with no relevance to the current action. Now composers might be able to catch a good mood overall, but thats not good enough, especially when there are millions of dollars and a large reputation to live up to from past composers who were able to do better with a pencil, paper, a clunky projector and sometimes a piano. I find a sad amusement in the fact that Williams is the best film composer out there right now, and he hasn't ever used a computer in his scoring.

Technology has hurt the film industry more than it has helped it. I see more and more uses of it as a crutch. Replacing actors, over mixing the sound with no limits on the amount of sound effects going on at once, replacing good old explosions, and worst of all, bad sound editors messing with a work of art. I don't think Monet would trust a graphic designer to finish his work, or Tchaikovsky would trust Hans Zimmer to finish a ballet for him. Why does anybody let sound editors mess with music than?

There is a lack of subtlety and respect for the audience in the film industry now, and I find it upsetting that the industry has turned to this after such a wonderful history.

~JW

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I think people are so desperate for good film music they are proclaiming average to good scores as great.

I personally am not desperate for good film music at all, because there's plenty of it, like the three JNH scores you mentioned, which are great, not merely good. It's a vastly different sound from the great scores of decades past, however, so maybe some people are just not able or willing to appreciate it without wishing it sounded like what they grew up with.

Ray Barnsbury

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I tire of that lame argument. It has nothing to do living in the past. It has to do with the quality of music. While I'm no musical expert I've been listening to film music for some 30 years. I think I can tell the difference between complex well written music and wallpaper.

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I'm tired of that argument. After 30 years, nothing new sounds great. One of the pit-falls of fandom of a particular genre or medium.

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Yeah but you are narrow minded as well, based on some of your comments one would think you can't seem to appreciate music wriiten before 1980.

There is a similar discussion going on over at FSM.

thread

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I think I can tell the difference between complex well written music and wallpaper.

If you think a score like The Village or Lady in the Water is less complex and well-written than Superman or The Fury, then no, you can't.

Ray Barnsbury

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