What's the most musically complex piece Williams has ever written?

[Quintus 5,399]

I know very little about the technical side of music, but my ear suggests these two:

Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra, or The Shark Cage Fugue.

How wrong am I and why?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

The Fugues sound complex and all("Quidditch Year III"), but I think there are some deceitfully simple tunes out there that are harder to play than it seems at first ear.

[ChuckM 1]

Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra

Seconded

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Let There Be Light (CE3K)

[Farawyn 0]

I think as well that the Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra is a mind-bogglingly complex cue, both technically and cinematographically (the number of sync points is astounding !) ; Escape-Chase-Saying Goodbye is an incredible musical puzzle too. Yet, though it is not as complex as the two former cues, I still think that the "bang " of The Mothership, with its many layers of violins, is astounding

[Josh500 1,615]

The Quidditch Match

Quidditch, Third Year

any Star Wars action cue . . . hell, any action cue

There are so many, I can't decide.

[Morlock 11]

A lot of the pieces sound conceptually complex and brilliant...but very few strike me as remarkably musically complex. I know the fugues don't.

[nightscape94 965]

I would say the ending of Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Lot of cool stuff throughout the entire finale.

Tim

[Ollie 1,059]

I've heard those who had a chance to view Williams' Lost World sketches claim that the theme is very complex.

In fact didn't Don Davis mention that when he looked at Williams' JP sketches that they were more complex than people realized?

[nightscape94 965]

Joel McNeely said the same thing about Jaws when he went to do the re-record, but it was designed in such a way that it wasn't hard to play or organize. Just as a conductor's score, it was incredibly hard to read and study.

Tim

[Red 75]

Williams most complex action cue (which is a branch that some seriously complex works) is probably "The Ultimate War" from Hook. But as for all-time most complex? That's difficult to say . . .

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Williams most complex action cue (which is a branch that some seriously complex works) is probably "The Ultimate War" from Hook. But as for all-time most complex? That's difficult to say . . .

That's what I was thinking of. At the very least, it's certainly one of his most thematically complex pieces.

Ray Barnsbury

[David Coscina 3]

I would say most of War of the Worlds- especially the Intersection Scene and the Ferry Scene. Both have a lot of orchestral energy but more importantly a lot of difficult almost non-metered sections that I can only imagine were notated quite intricately.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Also, the meter seems quite complex, or at least elusive, in "The Whomping Willow." Can anyone tell me what time signature(s) it's in?

Ray Barnsbury

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Ben's Death and the Tie Fighter attack, still the single greatest action cue of Johnny's career, like nothing before or since.

[King Mark 3,631]

Asteroid field seems pretty complex

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Ben's Death and the Tie Fighter attack, still the single greatest action cue of Johnny's career, like nothing before or since.

But is it his most musically complex?

[Datameister 2,041]

But is it his most musically complex?

Far from it. Sorry, Joe--I agree it's a great cue and all, but it's certainly not the answer to the question TheGreatEye is asking.

Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra is probably the most intricate one I've heard so far, but it's hard to quantify...

[Ollie 1,059]

"Battle In the Snow" (as it was called on the TESB Double LP set) sounded complex to me.

That's the Imperial Walker sequence.

[scissorhands 16]

But is it his most musically complex?

Far from it. Sorry, Joe--I agree it's a great cue and all, but it's certainly not the answer to the question TheGreatEye is asking.

Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra is probably the most intricate one I've heard so far, but it's hard to quantify...

Yeah, but Joe will never accept anything good coming from the Last Crusade

[fommes 153]

The Knight Bus?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Noisy might be more accurate.

Ray Barnsbury

[Ollie 1,059]

Noise?

It's a fun cue.

[mark_rayen 0]

I think the epilogue from war of the worlds has one of the most complex harmonic designs I've ever encountered. I just can not understand how he could make it all sound so logical! I transcribed most of it for piano and played it for a few friends, and they don't understand the grammar of it either. It has such incredibly complex textures.

[Henry B 50]

Barry's Kidnapping?

[Quintus 5,399]

Barry's Kidnapping?

Nah, as superb as that piece is, its really just a bunch of atonal ideas thrown together, which happens to make for a very effective cue. But one can easily spot things such as the transition between the (wholly) different parts. There isn't enough 'melding' of material to consider it his most complex.

[Nemesis 245]

The Battle In The Snow is also complex, I think.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

"Battle In the Snow" (as it was called on the TESB Double LP set) sounded complex to me.

That's the Imperial Walker sequence.

Yes , that sounds complex , great percussion stuff in the second half of the cue.

I would abmit that every action cue in 6 SW films are very complex , still sounding cool.(that's why I love them)

Scherzo for Motorcycle sounds very tricky but I think with a "click"(I think they use it in rhythmic pieces

like this) it is't that difficult , no tempo changes there.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

The Knight Bus?

Noisy might be more accurate.

Ray Barnsbury

Noise?

It's a fun cue.

Yeah, I was just saying that it might not be so much complex, as just a lot of loud sounds going on at once. I don't really know, though.

Ray Barnsbury

[Red 75]

"Summon the Heroes" gets pretty complex, as does the overature for The Cowboys.

[nightscape94 965]

I always loved that part of The Cowboys at the end where both themes overlap each other, and it doesn't sound like confusion, it sounds perfectly clear and cool.

Tim

[King Mark 3,631]

The last 3 minutes of Soundings sound complex to me

[JoeinAR 1,949]

But is it his most musically complex?

Far from it. Sorry, Joe--I agree it's a great cue and all, but it's certainly not the answer to the question TheGreatEye is asking.

Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra is probably the most intricate one I've heard so far, but it's hard to quantify...

Yeah, but Joe will never accept anything good coming from the Last Crusade

thats not quite true

always loved the knight theme.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

That's refreshing to hear!

Ray Barnsbury

[John Crichton 4]

Speaking of Last Crusade, it's not the most musically complex but perhaps the most technically complex from a film scoring standpoint: Indy's First Adventure. Williams often comments on how there's something like 50 synch points in the 10 minute+ sequence.

[ChuckM 1]

The whole Last Crusade score is definitely in the top five (at least) of my favorite scores.

[OrchDork 0]

Also, the meter seems quite complex, or at least elusive, in "The Whomping Willow." Can anyone tell me what time signature(s) it's in?

Ray Barnsbury

I think the piece has a compound triple meter, that is to say that it's based on 3/8... so like 6/8 and 9/8. There are also a few instances of 10/8 (especially towards the very end, right before "The Snowball Fight").

And in response to the topic, my first thoughts were "Quidditch, Year Three" and "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra"... brilliant stuff. And on a random side note, I think I would LOVE to conduct the latter.

[nightscape94 965]

Speaking of Last Crusade, it's not the most musically complex but perhaps the most technically complex from a film scoring standpoint: Indy's First Adventure. Williams often comments on how there's something like 50 synch points in the 10 minute+ sequence.

And he was magically able to reproduce this with a live orchestra along with the film when I saw him with the New York Philharmonic last year. It was the first of these concerts, which he has since done a few subsequent times.

Tim

[John Crichton 4]

Yeah, there was one that was done with NPR or PBS a year or so ago that was available streaming on the internet for a short time. Very well performed with Williams at the helm, the timing was flawless.

[nightscape94 965]

That's the one I was at

Also, I had recorded the stream and created mp3s that I distributed to members of JWFan last year when it was online. If anyone still wants it, let me know. Everything is titled and organized nicely. I didn't edit out the applause, so what you heard on the webcast is what I have, just divided up into nice little parts.

Tim

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

The Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra isn't extremely complex. It's just a lot of parallel triads over a tonic pedal point in a very fast 6/8 with some displaced accents. Probably not the easiest thing for an orchestra to play tightly (at first) but musically it isn't one of his most complex.

There's plenty in CE3K and the SW films. Also, The Arrival of Tink might contain more variety than any single cue he's written. That one gets pretty chaotic as well. It's my all-time favorite "Mickey Mousing" cue.

[MSM 126]

It's T-rex Rescue & Finale.

[drod400 0]

Rescuing Sarah!

[Romão 2,274]

It's T-rex Rescue & Finale.

One of his sadly most underated action cues. It should stand up there next to The Battle of Hoth or Desert Chase.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I much prefer 'Visitor in San Diego', especially the second half.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

The Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra isn't extremely complex. It's just a lot of parallel triads over a tonic pedal point in a very fast 6/8 with some displaced accents.

For some reason, this really made me laugh.

Ray Barnsbury

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

The Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra isn't extremely complex. It's just a lot of parallel triads over a tonic pedal point in a very fast 6/8 with some displaced accents.

For some reason, this really made me laugh.

Ray Barnsbury

I'd like to know why?

[Red 75]

Probably because it (the statement) had alot of musical jargin in it that probably doesn't make sense to some here. I barely understood it.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yeah, the musical terms terms you listed right after saying it wasn't complex seemed to negate that assertion. But that's just because it was like a foreign language to me.

Ray Barnsbury - who has only a very rudimentary understanding of music theory

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

Yeah, the musical terms terms you listed right after saying it wasn't complex seemed to negate that assertion. But that's just because it was like a foreign language to me.

Ray Barnsbury - who has only a very rudimentary understanding of music theory

And I could have done a better job describing it, because it's a little more complex than the way I made it sound. But I will try to explain the terminology I used.

It's just a lot of parallel triads

Triads are 3 notes played at the same time, most commonly where those 3 notes are nearly equidistant (ex: A, C, and E played at the same time). By parallel triads I mean that each of the 3 notes move in the same direction while almost staying equidistant. (ex: A moves up one key, but so do the C and the E.)

over a tonic pedal point

A pedal point is a note usually in the bass that keeps repeating or holding while other instruments are changing. The "tonic" part of it means the repeated note is the tonic, or the root (the main note that the piece is based on).

in a very fast 6/8

6/8 is a type of meter, usually pretty fast where you really only feel the two strong beats (beats 1 and 4). Try counting from 1 to 6 really really fast over and over again without stopping, and emphasizing the numbers 1 and 4. That's what a traditional 6/8 feels like. Common pieces in 6/8 are tarantellas and some John Philip Sousa marches.

with some displaced accents.

As mentioned above, a normal 6/8 piece will have beats 1 and 4 accented, but JW throws it off a bit by shifting the expected accents to other counts. This throws the rhythm slightly off kilter and gives it that bite.