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If Williams had composed Lord of the Rings scores...


Jarbas
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Imagine Peter Jackson had hired John Williams to work in the scores of the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy... some of the scores that he composed between 2001 and 2003 probably wouldn´t have been made due to lack of time.

Comparing with that Howard Shore produced on these three years: 2 scores in 2001, 4 in 2002 and 1 in 2003 (including the LOTR scores); Williams made the same amount of works for every year, except 2003. Therefore following the logic of available time, we would have to remove a Williams score in 2001 and another in 2002 to substitute for two scores of LOTR (In 2003 we´d have The Return of the King composed and conducted by John Williams, without problems). B)

I don't know if I would get to remove some score, perhaps Minority Report (but I would be without wonderful "Anderton´s Great Escape")...I leave how it is, after all the work of Howard Shore is excellent...

And you? Would discard one of every year... or not?

2001:

- A.I. Artificial Intelligence or Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

2002:

- Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones, Minority Report, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets or Catch Me If You Can

Have fun!!! :blink:

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Williams would have scored Spielberg's films and continued with the Star Wars prequels regardless. With his busy shedule I doubt he would have made the comittement Shore did to spend 3 to 4 years working on LOTR.

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We would be devoid of at least 4 classics: Lord Of The Rings by Howard Shore and Philosopher's Stone.

Jackson had good reasons to hire a composer who didn't have a bunch of awards on his shelve already, he didn't want one of those big names to produce a score with Williams or Horner or Elfman written all over it. He wanted a Lord of The Rings score, and frankly, I doubt Williams could have delivered something on the structural level of Howard Shore's work. Not at this point in his career.

Simply put: I don't think Lord Of The Rings by Williams would have been anything special. Certainly not amongst Williams' scores, that is. I know it's foolish to discard a new Williams from the get go, but I doubt he would have written anything but another John Williams score.

Plus, at this point in time, I don't think any studio is able and willing to afford paying John Williams for four years.

But if it had to be like that, then I would say AOTC and A.I. are easily replacable.

Now, let another chapter in the Williams Vs. Shore slugfest begin ...

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If it had happened, then I would choose AI, and Catch Me If You Can to not be Williams. But I'm quite happy that it didn't happen as I wouldn't want to lose those Williams scores, OR Shore's amazing scores to the LotR films.

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I have to agree with Newman. Also, you don't just write a LOTR score instead of Minority Report. It took Shore years of Tolkien research to come up with the scores he did, and I think it shows. LOTR is a high-maintenance animal, and Williams wouldn't committ to such a time-consuming project unless Spielberg and Lucas had retired or something.

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Williams would have scored Spielberg's films and continued with the Star Wars prequels regardless. With his busy shedule I doubt he would have made the comittement Shore did to spend 3 to 4 years working on LOTR.

Bingo. As much as I would like to hear what a Williams LotR would sound like, I think things turned out just fine.

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Williams would have scored Spielberg's films and continued with the Star Wars prequels regardless. With his busy shedule I doubt he would have made the comittement Shore did to spend 3 to 4 years working on LOTR.
Jackson had good reasons to hire a composer who didn't have a bunch of awards on his shelve already, he didn't want one of those big names to produce a score with Williams or Horner or Elfman written all over it. He wanted a Lord of The Rings score. (...)

Simply put: I don't think Lord Of The Rings by Williams would have been anything special. Certainly not amongst Williams' scores, that is. I know it's foolish to discard a new Williams from the get go, but I doubt he would have written anything but another John Williams score.

You don't just write a LOTR score instead of Minority Report. It took Shore years of Tolkien research to come up with the scores he did, and I think it shows. LOTR is a high-maintenance animal, and Williams wouldn't committ to such a time-consuming project unless Spielberg and Lucas had retired or something.

Yes, yes, yes.

What are you asking anyway?

Which two of those six scores can we do without the easiest, or would we like to have seen Williams score LotR instead of Shore?

If it is the latter, I can only answer for myself with a resounding "no."

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And you? Would discard one of every year... or not?

Williams is famous for not reading scripts. I don't know if he knows the Tolkien novel, but probably not that well. We can conclude that he would have started writing the music for each film once the film was (more or less) completed. Which invariably means that while the music would have been great, the complex thematic relations and backgrounds Shore managed to work into his score wouldn't have been there. Plus the three scores likely wouldn't be as cohesive, since I'm pretty sure Williams would have approached the three films individually.

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If I were to choose another composer to score the LOTR films it would have been Jerry Goldsmith during his best years (1968 to 1989) or Basil Poledouris.

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I'm surprised but relieved that no one has used this thread to reiterate how much better they think Williams would have scored LotR :blink:

In choosing scores, my ideal choice would be to do HP:PS in one year, A.I. in the other. Chamber of Secrets was good but not amazing, and I don't really care much about his other 2002 offerings.

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I agree with Newman, but I'd still be curious as to what Williams would have done with LOTR. But, that's all water under the bridge, and everything turned out out for the best.

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Lord of the Rings is not that listenable to me, and the subtle connections between the themes are not worth all the work put into it. If the films had been scored by the same John Williams who did Azkaban, we'd have 3 classic scores. As is, I think the scores are elevated by the films, not the other way around.

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While I would very much like to hear John's LotR Trilogy, I am happy that it was done by someone with a fresh voice. I am not sure if JW (being that old) could handle the whole project and deliver an original and inspiring score like Shore did. While JW did the trick on Azkaban, it was already the third part, while first two parts were just ok for me (I don't hold "hpss" in high regard).

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I think that under the same circumstances that Shore had, Williams would also make a great work. I think the closest example is his fantastic score for Close Encounters, where Spielberg and Williams began to work in the ideas soon after Jaws.

If John Williams had done LOTR, he would have seven Oscars. Maybe eight if he had to write that song.

Yes, I agree! :blink:

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I'm surprised but relieved that no one has used this thread to reiterate how much better they think Williams would have scored LotR :)

In his prime years, yes he probably would have written something better than Shore.

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I don't really believe that. Musically, the POA-type Williams would deliver great music for LOTR. There's no doubt that musically, Williams is far ahead of Shore - today more than ever. But neither now nor 10 or 20 years ago would he have submitted himself as much to the Tolkien world as Shore did.

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Lord of the Rings is not that listenable to me, and the subtle connections between the themes are not worth all the work put into it.

As is, I think the scores are elevated by the films, not the other way around.

I'm with Jeshopk on this one. Regardless whether it be LotR or any other fantasy project, I'd like to hear a JW score for it.

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CoS issues aside, definately.

And I, for one (just about the only one) am perfectly happy with AotC too, Geonosis and other tracking issues aside. Now, where did I put that helmet? :)

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Right,I would never have sacrificed a Star Wars score for anything,this would have made Williams' oeuvre incomplete

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I don't really believe that. Musically, the POA-type Williams would deliver great music for LOTR. There's no doubt that musically, Williams is far ahead of Shore - today more than ever. But neither now nor 10 or 20 years ago would he have submitted himself as much to the Tolkien world as Shore did.

Speaking of medieval motifs that John Williams composed for Harry Potter and Prisoner of Azkaban (POA)? I doubt very much that would deliver great music for LOTR that well considering it not even written for LOTR. The dark evil music that he can composed such as the dementors theme could work in the LOTR and very effective. John Williams may have approach something similar in the same way as Shore did. No matter what how people think of John Williams music would sound like for LOTR compared to shore ...it will be exceptable because who he is and the extreme talent his got in way his compose the music for films. He has never been rejected his career.

I'm not saying he could be better then shore or not. But since it John Williams it more likely to be a better score because his style of music and his orchestration. Shore mostly use choir in his LOTR as we his orchestra and if you listen to a choir piece that is composed by John Williams as well as the orchestra itself, you know it good.

And.....he may have to alter his style of music to match a genre of a film such as schindler's List, Seven Years in Tibet and Memoirs of Geshia...His has two different style of music that he can approach a film. Possibly he can do a 3rd style or a mixture of his distinctive styles just for the LOTR.

Or you have many ways of styles for a composer to choose from for a particular film so it work well with the film and that he can composed something like it.

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Lord of the Rings is not that listenable to me, and the subtle connections between the themes are not worth all the work put into it. If the films had been scored by the same John Williams who did Azkaban, we'd have 3 classic scores. As is, I think the scores are elevated by the films, not the other way around.

That's what I was afraid of. Shore has given us 3 scores that are modern classics IMO. I know this is all about opinions, and this is JW fan board, but thats mine :)

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Lord of the Rings is not that listenable to me, and the subtle connections between the themes are not worth all the work put into it. If the films had been scored by the same John Williams who did Azkaban, we'd have 3 classic scores. As is, I think the scores are elevated by the films, not the other way around.

Jesse is right , as usual.

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If John would have scored LOTR it means I would have not had 3 Howard Shore scores that I love with all my heart.

Nor would I have had 2 great Harry Potter scores that represent some of the best of Williams modern work.

So, the way it turned out is great, for me.

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If John would have scored LOTR it means I would have not had 3 Howard Shore scores that I love with all my heart.

Nor would I have had 2 great Harry Potter scores that represent some of the best of Williams modern work.

So, the way it turned out is great, for me.

Agreed.

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Listen to TLW and that might give you an idea of what a Williams scored King Kong might sound like.

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Not suprising, given the time to write the thing. Also, what ARE the chances of us ever hearing Shore's King Kong? Obviously the recording lies dormant somewhere...

Unless Shore tore it to shreds in a moment of uncontrollable bitter anger!

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According to a Q & A session at one of his recent concerts, Shore mentioned he would like to release his music for King Kong. The thread is the current LOTR one over at Moviemusic.com.

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One day when we have all 6 SW complete scores in one box set,AotC will be an essential part of it.

I seriously doubt that. It isn't even essential in the film. As its is, you could play any music over those silly scenes, you don't need Williams for this niveau.

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I'd like to hear Williams' go at LOTR if it didn't cost scores like the first Harry Potter and AOTC. But I enjoy both of those scores too much to throw them away on a gamble (although AOTC certainly frustrates me at times).

The thing is, I honestly don't care for the LOTR films that much. I agree with Jeshopk in that the films elevate the current scores, not vice versa, and I think that if William had scored them, his scores would have been dragged down by the films--i.e. I'd enjoy them more if I hadn't seen the films.

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One day we will a have a boxed set of all 6 scores and AOTC will still be the least listened to of the 6.

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I must be sick or something, I know. ;) I never get enough of "Chase through Coruscant"

This said, I'm still figuring out how to play it on my computer.

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One day we will a have a boxed set of all 6 scores and AOTC will still be the least listened to of the 6.

It's a pretty good score, despite it being the worst Wars score. But still, that kind of stuff should be kept to yourself.

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