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John Williams cues that don't sound like John Williams


Eric_JWFAN
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Of course you have a lot of non-Williams like movies such as Presumed Innocent, The Terminal, Stanley and Iris etc. But what about the major budget type movies that have un-Williams like cues?

Augie's Great Municipal Band and Banning Back Home come to mind. What others?

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Lots of...

some of them are:

"Susan's Speaks" from "The Patriot" - a Morricone rip off ;)

"Chase Through Coruscant" form "AotC" - most unusual JW action cue (though has some distinctive JW features).

"Brush on Silk" from "MoaG"

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"Susan's Speaks" from "The Patriot" - a Morricone rip off ;)

Huh? That's pure JW for most of it. Only the last 40 seconds or so sound like EM.

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The Knight Bus in Azkaban

I think Kight bus is definately Williams...old Williams though as it seems to be taken from his last mvt from sinfonietta for winds.

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Yeah, I hear Williams in it. 'Brush on Silk', 'The Temple of Doom' and 'La Bostella' (which I can't get enough of) really sound NOTHING like any other JW (with the possible exception of some of the accompaniment in ToD).

Adding to the list, The songs in Rosewood, as well as 'The Hounds of Summer' (or, as a friend of mine said (WTF?! This is Williams???), and the guitar sound in general is not something Williams used often (I can't think of another similar sounding Willims piece).

Images, of course, deserves a mention (the freaky stuff, not the elegant 'Blood Moon' and the track with Ponies and Unicorns or something).

Several of the Sugarland Express source cues sound nothing like JW. In general, his source cues don't sound like him (for obvious reasons). Certainly The Paper Chase ones. The Suite from 'Angels with Filthy Souls', naturally.

"The Mecha World" sounds like John Adams.

...but it also sounds like Williams.

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In general, his source cues don't sound like him (for obvious reasons). Certainly The Paper Chase ones. The Suite from 'Angels with Filthy Souls', naturally.

Yeah. Add Luthor's Luau to that as well then.

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Certainly, the calypso rythems....sounded like West Side Story with dinasaurs! Still, the typical JW brass punctuation makes it very JW music (those two notes from JFK).

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"The Moon Rising" from A.I.

Well, yeah, but IIRC it was strongly rumoured that that was written by Joseph Williams (the techno part).

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Adding to the list, The songs in Rosewood, as well as 'The Hounds of Summer' (or, as a friend of mine said (WTF?! This is Williams???), and the guitar sound in general is not something Williams used often (I can't think of another similar sounding Willims piece).

I feel that Rosewood has Williams written all over it!

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Yes, but I think that the songs, and some of the guitar music with less symphonic backing would not strike me immediately as JW.

Morlock- who loves Rosewood

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Born on the Fourth of July is a pretty un-Williamsesque score becuase it relies mainly on strings, which John rarely ever does. In fact, I think that it might be the only score of his where he uses strings to that extent.

The trumpet solos are similar to JFK and Nixon, though.

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Born on the Fourth of July is a pretty un-Williamsesque score becuase it relies mainly on strings, which John rarely ever does. In fact, I think that it might be the only score of his where he uses strings to that extent.

Huh?

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"Jabba's Baroque Recital" comes to mind. What an odd little gem...sort of. "Dennis Steals the Embryo" is often cited as an un-Williams-esque cue--and I mostly agree with that, although some of the horn writing reminds me of certain chords in RotLA.

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Parts of "The River" seem to occupy their own sound world, particularly with that drum beat in the main titles. Also, I thing "The Days Between" from Stepmom is not typical Williams at all - the harmonies are very French, like Ravel. I think only aficianados who knew the piece would recognise it as Williams.

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Actually, I think you can hear Williams in most of the mentioned pieces... Some may be some sort of classical, or baroque, or even pop/rock pastiche, yet, to my ears, they do sound genuine Williams.

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Born on the Fourth of July is a pretty un-Williamsesque score becuase it relies mainly on strings, which John rarely ever does. In fact, I think that it might be the only score of his where he uses strings to that extent.

The trumpet solos are similar to JFK and Nixon, though.

Jaws, Schindler's List......

I find Williams' string writing to be one of his strong points.

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Actually, I think you can hear Williams in most of the mentioned pieces... Some may be some sort of classical, or baroque, or even pop/rock pastiche, yet, to my ears, they do sound genuine Williams.

I agree with Miguel. Somehow all his tracks have the Willams' stamp on it. This became clear to me whilst listening to some of the early Williams scores.

Alex

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Born on the Fourth of July is a pretty un-Williamsesque score becuase it relies mainly on strings, which John rarely ever does. In fact, I think that it might be the only score of his where he uses strings to that extent.

The trumpet solos are similar to JFK and Nixon, though.

Jaws, Schindler's List......

I find Williams' string writing to be one of his strong points.

Schindler is a valid arguement, but Jaws is often filled with brass.

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Guest macrea
"Banning Back Home" was the first thing that popped into my head. I guess you could add "Montage" from Jaws to the list as well.

I thought of the "Hook" piece too. I always thought it sounded like Dave Grusin.

"Jaws" montage, on the other hand, is clearly Williams.

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I agree with Miguel as welll, there isn't much of JW's work that doesn't have his signature on it in some way. Though pastiche (for want of a better term) is so integral to what he does, the emotional signals and the overall design and structure down to micro-melodic shapes, and of course orchestrational brilliance, is pure Williams.

AI seems like a bit of a departure. Mecha World -- yes, John Adams but more John Adams' main influence Steve Reich ca. Variations for Winds, Strings & Keyboards or The Desert Music. Williams has frequently taken stylistic detours as noted in all the examples above, but I think one difference with AI is that in recent years JW has frequently acknowledged being impressed by the work of John Adams.

I think you can hear a shift to something more modern (even moreso given Williams is already a pretty modern type of composer though heavily informed by the 19th century) from AI onwards. More minimalist -- of course JW was writing repeating patterns long before Philip Glass was a household name. Ultimately the influence probably comes from JW's proto-minimalist mentor Bernard Herrmann.

If I had to vote for something it would be Images. Luthor's Luau has melodic pre-echoes of Han Solo & the Princess.

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I agree with Miguel as welll, there isn't much of JW's work that doesn't have his signature on it in some way. Though pastiche (for want of a better term) is so integral to what he does, the emotional signals and the overall design and structure down to micro-melodic shapes, and of course orchestrational brilliance, is pure Williams.

AI seems like a bit of a departure. Mecha World -- yes, John Adams but more John Adams' main influence Steve Reich ca. Variations for Winds, Strings & Keyboards or The Desert Music. Williams has frequently taken stylistic detours as noted in all the examples above, but I think one difference with AI is that in recent years JW has frequently acknowledged being impressed by the work of John Adams.

I think you can hear a shift to something more modern (even moreso given Williams is already a pretty modern type of composer though heavily informed by the 19th century) from AI onwards. More minimalist -- of course JW was writing repeating patterns long before Philip Glass was a household name. Ultimately the influence probably comes from JW's proto-minimalist mentor Bernard Herrmann.

If I had to vote for something it would be Images. Luthor's Luau has melodic pre-echoes of Han Solo & the Princess.

Well put, fivetones!

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Guest macrea

I think citing source music like "Luthor's Luau" is an easy out. Williams always demonstrates the ability to provide music evoking any era or region or mood as the scene requires.

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JW was writing repeating patterns long before Philip Glass was a household name.

Since when was Philip Glass a household name? ;)

ok Desert Wind and the Street Singer from the Phantom Menace

Ironically, source cues like those seem very Williams-like to me. I know they don't fit the popular idea of his music, but he's written a number of source cues that have that sort of sound. I'm not too fond of them, actually...they sound just a little too esoteric. :dance:

I haven't heard any of The Sugarland Express except the theme (courtesy of the "Spielberg/Williams Collaboration" album), and I don't think I'd ever have guessed it was Williams' work. The fact that he uses harmonica is definitely a big part of it, but a lot of the composition itself doesn't scream "Williams!" at me. The exception is some of the string writing in the middle. I like that piece, I must admit.

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"Banning Back Home" was the first thing that popped into my head. I guess you could add "Montage" from Jaws to the list as well.

I thought of the "Hook" piece too. I always thought it sounded like Dave Grusin.

Because it more or less copies a piece written by Grusin.

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I can't think of right now. It's been discussed before on this message board.

Basically it's a case of falling in love with the temp track and having Williams copy it as close as he could.

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"Banning Back Home" was the first thing that popped into my head. I guess you could add "Montage" from Jaws to the list as well.

I thought of the "Hook" piece too. I always thought it sounded like Dave Grusin.

Because it more or less copies a piece written by Grusin.

Actually, Banning back Home sounds a lot like the jazz work of aclaimed Portuguese composer António Pinho Vargas.

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How about The People Protest in the Reivers .Pure hillbilly music

As JW hillbilly music goes, nothing tops 'Celebration' from The Missouri Breaks in my book.

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Heartbeeps might strike a person as non-Williams sounding, except for the Crimebuster theme.

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What about "Gloria" from "Monsignore"? Pretty unwilliamsesque.

It's VERY Williamsesque.I first heard part of it on TV in the Monsignor commercials and I immediatly knew Williams scored the movie...then I wanted that cue forever

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What about "Gloria" from "Monsignore"? Pretty unwilliamsesque.

It's VERY Williamsesque.I first heard part of it on TV in the Monsignor commercials and I immediatly knew Williams scored the movie...then I wanted that cue forever

I disagree, but I might have worse ear for JW than you :rolleyes:

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It has those big smashing chords similar to E.T. at the end(that's the awsome part I wanted),and if you listen to the gloria theme played on strings and horn in Santonni's Compassion it's pure Williams.If anything it's the Main Titles that don't sound like williams in Monsignor.

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