Quintus 5,391 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Although some sound complex I have no idea myself. Please try to enlighten me Though in a way they must all be complex, or just beyond standard, skilled musical grasp. Because if every composer (not just for film) could write melodys like Williams, every single pop song in the Top 20 would be catchy as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 73 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 You made almost the exact same thread a little while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,391 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 Almost being the key word clever boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 73 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 But still, you didn't need to make this. The other thread would have answered this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Pre-Crime motif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 480 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 This bickering is pointless.It is a similar question to this one, but let's keep this one open for a bit and see what we can come up with if we exclude everything but actual themes and leitmotifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Five Tones 289 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I think it's more interesting to look at just the motifs/themes -- they have to stick in memory somewhat whereas the non-recurring material doesn't, hence ideas/complexity often get piled on. How complex can JW make a single melodic line for a theme?Pre Crime, rhythmically speaking yes. ET Over the Moon as something that sounds simple and catchy, but goes through tricky modulations and has wide intervals/range to boot. Plus the solo piano version for the end credits is wickedly tricky.To nuance this topic -- what is the most complex and still widely popular theme? The Imperial March. Throngs of people sing along with it at football and hockey games, yet it's highly chromatic and based on a quirky gothic progression of minor chords... totally unlike popular, folk or traditional classical music for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 2,924 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Shark Cage Fugue on the Spielberg /Williams Collaboration c.d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_JWFAN 11 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I think it's more interesting to look at just the motifs/themes -- they have to stick in memory somewhat whereas the non-recurring material doesn't, hence ideas/complexity often get piled on. How complex can JW make a single melodic line for a theme?Interesting point. In a sense, one could make a case for the Jaws theme. It's the only atonal "theme" I know by JW, and it went on the become arguably the most recognizeable movie motif of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 1,394 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 To nuance this topic -- what is the most complex and still widely popular theme? The Imperial March. Throngs of people sing along with it at football and hockey games, yet it's highly chromatic and based on a quirky gothic progression of minor chords... totally unlike popular, folk or traditional classical music for that matter.Excellent point. The chord progression of that thing is by no means conventional, and the melody isn't particularly simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 49 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I could play the Imperial March by ear on the piano, chords and all, when I was ten (with the exception of one or two particularly chromatic measures that I checked a songbook for). Jaws theme? Yeah, "dun-dun, dun-dun" was the most I could do. It's much more atonal, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 So, Council of Musicians, how does Anakin's theme rank in complexity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 1,394 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Actually, I find Anakin's theme's complexity to be its one fault. An ever-so-slightly simpler theme might have been more suitable, though it's a beautiful theme nonetheless.I could play the Imperial March by ear on the piano, chords and all, when I was ten (with the exception of one or two particularly chromatic measures that I checked a songbook for).Good point...me too. I guess it all depends on how we define complexity. The Imperial March is not so much complex as it is harmonically unconventional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,248 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Instrumentally it is vastly complex. Howard Shore learnt how to orchestrate by studying the score for the March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant 1,093 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 But never really learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,248 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 There are people who would beg to differ. Myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,602 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I think one of the most complex things JW has ever written is Hedwig's Theme. The main melody is pretty standard, but what the strings are doing underneath to imitate the owl's wings . . . oh my gosh, what's up with that? I'm surprised the players were able to move their bows so fast. Does anyone have the written score? It looks so complicated, I wonder how JW came up with that. (When I first heard the piece, I actually thought the violin players were just playing something. But of course JW has written down every single note.) TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 73 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 There are people who would beg to differ. Myself included.Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I think one of the most complex things JW has ever written is Hedwig's Theme. The main melody is pretty standard, but what the strings are doing underneath to imitate the owl's wings . . . oh my gosh, what's up with that? I'm surprised the players were able to move their bows so fast. Does anyone have the written score? It looks so complicated, I wonder how JW came up with that. (When I first heard the piece, I actually thought the violin players were just playing something. But of course JW has written down every single note.)Yeah...the part when the celeste mimics the Nimbus 2000 theme in that track is supposed to be wickedly difficult. It sounds superhuman fast!Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,602 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I think one of the most complex things JW has ever written is Hedwig's Theme. The main melody is pretty standard, but what the strings are doing underneath to imitate the owl's wings . . . oh my gosh, what's up with that? I'm surprised the players were able to move their bows so fast. Does anyone have the written score? It looks so complicated, I wonder how JW came up with that. (When I first heard the piece, I actually thought the violin players were just playing something. But of course JW has written down every single note.)Yeah...the part when the celeste mimics the Nimbus 2000 theme in that track is supposed to be wickedly difficult. It sounds superhuman fast!Ray BarnsburyYou know, I believe the strings part was actually played by the orchestra members, but I've heard the celeste was played by Randy Kerber on a synthethizer. If you think about it, that must be so. No player on earth can play that fast. Or maybe they recorded it separately?!Oh, and while we're on the topic, one of my favorite renditions of Hedwig's Theme can be heard in Letters from Hogwarts. You can hear the strings/celeste/harp accompaniment slightly better, for one thing, and the second half has a different orchestration. Sounds awfully good--I always get goosebumps when I hear that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Isn't playing it on a snythesizer the same method as playing it on a celeste, using a keyboard for both? In any case, I'm pretty sure it's been played live at concerts too.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 2,924 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Hedwig's theme has been played at live concerts,but very poorly,including Williams conducted performances.Maybe it indicates that it's difficult to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant 1,093 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I've been few times with performing the Hedwig's theme. I asked our keyboardist( who is very good) is it tricky.He played the real celeste and said it's very very tricky but still playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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