Zimmer on POTC: At World's End

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Because...Zimmer is selling hundreds of thousands of copies of a single album, even millions, while most other composers like Williams and Goldsmith were barely struggling to reach 50,000.

[bondo 33]

...that doesn't affect the way we should interpret the scores themselves though. Blame the system, not the composers. I'd find it strange if every composer sold the same amount of CDs. It's art, it doesn't work that way.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well given the way people settle for mediocrity these days that doesn't suprise me.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

It's like how people were whining about HP posters and why they don't look like Drew Struzan work.  It's completely effective for WB, and it's popular with the audience.  

Things change, welcome to the future folks, if you don't like it, check out at your nearest cliff.  

Oh yes, romantics cried because of the hideous acts of North and Herrmann, and the cycle goes on. How dare they poision our art with this hideous jazz stuff? How dare Zimmer and James Newton Howard and Danny Elfman and the likes introduce rock and pop into our art?

[Ollie 1,059]

It's like how people were whining about HP posters and why they don't look like Drew Struzan work.  It's completely effective for WB, and it's popular with the audience.  

Things change, welcome to the future folks, if you don't like it, check out at your nearest cliff.  

Oh yes, romantics cried because of the hideous acts of North and Herrmann, and the cycle goes on. How dare they poision our art with this hideous jazz stuff? How dare Zimmer and James Newton Howard and Danny Elfman and the likes introduce rock and pop into our art?

Problem is you have 4 talented composers out of 5 who can actually write interesting and good music.

[bondo 33]

Problem is you have 4 talented composers out of 5 who can actually write interesting and good music.

All subjective.

[Damo 0]

To be honest.... I think I Don't Think Now Is The Best Time is the best track out of the entire album....well for action really. The action in this track is one of the best action cues I heard in a while. That vocal kid soloist which featured at the start of Hoist The Colours is something I didn't like it that much. I though it sounded a bit out of tune with orchestral percussive accompaniment. Did Zimmer purposely deliberate did that?

Overall I though the OST album for At World's End was a much better score compared to the "Dead Man's Chest" score. There are others parts in the OST album for At world's End that I didn't like besides that vocal soloist in the first track. But still as an overall I am quite happy how this one turn out to be. I'm looking forward to seeing the actual movie as well.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It's alright.

I kinda like Up Is Down and Drink Up Me Hearties.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Filmtracks has given it 2 stars.

[Damo 0]

That speak the truth of it how bad these MV composers are for some people out there!! Compared to say to the top A class composers such as John Williams, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, Jerry Goldsmith amongst other non MV composers...

But actually the 5 stars has more votes though I think compared to average stars given there...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

That speak the truth of it how bad these MV composers are for some people out there!!

Does it now?

It's still just one man's opinion. Take it or leave it.

[JWfangirl1992 18]

I got the soundtrack today. For some reason I called up the only two music stores in my vicinity and none of them had it come in yet. Anyway I got it off Itunes and it is amazing. Now normally I don't describe Zimmer work as amazing but he...I'm guessing the word is transposed (i think, I may confuse the hell out of some of you) the Davy Jones locket theme and organ theme in "At Wit's End" and it is fantastic and the same goes for the new love theme. When I heard the thirty second clips I was like "This is argh!!" but as a whole it really comes together and is worth the buy. (IMO)

[Damo 0]

That speak the truth of it how bad these MV composers are for some people out there!!

Does it now?

It's still just one man's opinion. Take it or leave it.

I'm just saying it for people out there who doesn't like it. Me saying that doesn't mean I don't like it because everyone knows for a fact that not all people like it except for those who does. But If you like it...then you like it and there nothing wrong with something you like and knowing some people who doesn't like it which is still okay. That goes for any other music genres in general. I like the music from Pirates of the Caribbean because it sounds fun and enjoyable to listen to. Even though the music from Pirates of the Caribbean may not be great orchestral film music like John Williams, or Danny Elfman or Jerry Goldsmith or any other NON MV film composers out there which are far more advanced level of skills and classically well trained.

Well to make obvious statement...there is a very big differents between hearing John Williams music and listening to Hans Zimmer...But doesn't mean I may not like Hans Zimmer or any other film composers out there which are not in advanced level as john Williams is. Even though every single composer has their own style of music even though their style of music can be influences with other composers that you like as well as their level of skill...Well like I said if you like it...then you like it...If you don't then you don't.... Just as simple as that.

[Incanus 5,714]

Having listened to POTC At World's End few times I really can't say it is anything special. It is Zimmer in his Zimmer style like he has done so many times before. I do not happen to like his action style very much. Few nice moments aside the score is pretty standard Zimmer fare.

[JWrocks231 0]

I love the At World's End album. Its such an improvement from Dead Man's Chest which was weighed down to much by darkness and percussion. [The Best songs on AWE are: Up Is Down, Parlay(not much of a fan of guitar being used in film score but it works for this), and Drink Up Me Hearties]

[Richard Penna 3,684]

Well as you've resurrected this thread, I'll bring my more up to date opinion on board. I now routinely enjoy about 2/3 of the album, with the other 1/3 having too little interest to make me want to play individual tracks. As an album experience though, I love it.

Oh, and Up is Down is one of the most addictive tracks I've ever owned.

[riselordvader 0]

I have always loved PotC music and always will. Between the three soundtracks, I have heard them more than any other CD I own (and I have a considerable amount). A day does not go by when I don't listen to them, repeatedly, for that matter. Now, I don't understand why everyone bickers and complains about Zimmer constantly, and frankly I don't want to know. I don't see why all this "synth" nonsense should matter. To me, Zimmer's music, especially PotC, is the most addicting, enjoyable, action-packed music there is. Schools across the nation play the memorable themes in band concerts. I think the word to best describe this music is: engaging.

I know this is a John Williams fansite (yes I can read). Some people are more likely to listen to and prefer his music more than Zimmer's, Shore's, or any one else's. But do we seriously need the constant childish bashing of music and composers that a majority of the public appreciates anyway (though they may not be on this site)? If people like Zimmer, they'll like Zimmer. If they don't like him, that's okay too. But must we really need to be reminded of that every time we open a thread in this message board?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

It's like how people were whining about HP posters and why they don't look like Drew Struzan work. It's completely effective for WB, and it's popular with the audience.

Things change, welcome to the future folks, if you don't like it, check out at your nearest cliff.

Oh yes, romantics cried because of the hideous acts of North and Herrmann, and the cycle goes on. How dare they poision our art with this hideous jazz stuff? How dare Zimmer and James Newton Howard and Danny Elfman and the likes introduce rock and pop into our art?

Wow, and I usually never agree with you.

[Henry B 50]

Except while Elfman and Newton Howard know what they're doing, Zimmer just sucks.

When it comes right down to it, there is simply no way to differentiate between Pearl Harbor and Pirates of the Caribbean, cello waltzes and other random, half-hearted inclusions of more period-style music aside. Even though I can't stand Zimmer's synthesizers (and I've heard how incredibly complex and expensive they are - ironic, since they sound worse than my $200 Garritan Personal Orchestra program) and am not taken with his style of writing, it is the sheer pretentiousness that every scene ever is ARMAGEDDON that turns me away from his music. The Japanese attack? ARMAGEDDON. The main character's plane goes down? ARMAGEDDON. The Romans do battle? ARMAGEDDON. The pirates do battle? ARMAGEDDON. The Simpsons do battle? ARMA--well, who knows, but I'm not too hopeful. Clemmenson, though I'm not fond of all his reviews, puts it succinctly:

"His tendency to write overbearingly powerful and simplistic anthems for nearly anything remotely connected to the concepts of action and drama begs for criticism and skepticism when it's applied in unconventional ways."

[Richard Penna 3,684]

Clemmenson may call his anthems powerful and overbearing, but I think that's what makes his music work with the masses.

However, I've been listening to a lot of his music recently, and a lot of his themes, while simplistic, are incredibly memorable. The opening jig from PotC for example - I've become addicted to it. Didn't Zimmer also recently mention in an interview that he does do a lot of research before he does a score, and that it's the way he records instruments that makes them sound as if they're samples.

[Vaderbait1 1]

At World's End is largely forgettable. I'm trying not to join the pro/anti-zimmer debate, as it is largely childish, but I'm genuinely surprised that many people liked even 2/3rds of this.

I personally found Dead Man's Chest to be much better, more entertaining. Most of AWE is uninspiring and forgettable. I think there were two or three tracks I kind of liked, but I can't really remember.

And that's never a good sign.

The only truly good Pirates score remains Dead Man's Chest.

[Henry B 50]

Clemmenson may call his anthems powerful and overbearing, but I think that's what makes his music work with the masses.

At the risk of sounding like an elitist prick, well, I'm an elitist prick. Of course Zimmer's music appeals to the masses. So does Madonna! The lowest common denominator is not what typically draws me to film music. A truly great score should be able to appeal to your average, popcorn-munching, soda-spilling moviegoer, but also to critics, musicians and serious listeners (Star Wars, for example - didn't that album do pretty well commercially?).

However, I've been listening to a lot of his music recently, and a lot of his themes, while simplistic, are incredibly memorable. The opening jig from PotC for example - I've become addicted to it. Didn't Zimmer also recently mention in an interview that he does do a lot of research before he does a score, and that it's the way he records instruments that makes them sound as if they're samples.

Yeah, Zimmer's themes are as memorable as Shakira's "Hips Don't Lie," which is in fact very memorable. I can't tell you how often "He's a Pirate" has been bouncing around my skull.

This is not a positive, however.

[Richard Penna 3,684]

At World's End is largely forgettable. I'm trying not to join the pro/anti-zimmer debate, as it is largely childish, but I'm genuinely surprised that many people liked even 2/3rds of this.

I personally found Dead Man's Chest to be much better, more entertaining. Most of AWE is uninspiring and forgettable. I think there were two or three tracks I kind of liked, but I can't really remember.

And that's never a good sign.

The only truly good Pirates score remains Dead Man's Chest.

Well this is clear evidence that all of this might just be down to differing tastes. I hate all but 2 1/2 tracks (I edited the louder part of Davy Jones out) of Dead Man's Chest, yet I was largely impressed when I first heard At World's End.

Just trying to offer my opinion here - I thought AWE was by far the best of the 3 scores, and that was even before my first viewing of a somewhat confusing film. I think it contains far more piratey music than that funky organ stuff in DMC, and lots more, very flexible thematic elements.

You know, I think we all have our own ways of defining whether a theme is good. My criteria is that if I can hum it after a few listens, it's good. Doesn't matter how complex it is. And most of the themes in AWE do that for me. Sometimes I do judge themes by how complex they are, but I've begun to realised that these days it's often director requests or just what the film needs.

[skyy38 21]

There is a very interesting interview with Hans Zimmer available. He talks about all three POTC scores and how they evolved .

etc.

Gee, I didn't know Zimmers pen name was "Klaus Badelt"...*wow*

Or that God had a younger smarter brother

Or that Pamela Andersons boobs were *gasp*......REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean,the way I see it,Hans Zimmer would collect a stool sample out of a toilet and call it "stew".....as published by Media Ventures.(That was Media Ventures in "Attack of The Clones",right?)

Next to Hans Zimmer,Hitler was an underachiever...and Hitler didn't even have a synth.

For example about the final POTC score he says: "There's a lot of old-fashioned woodwind writing, which I could do in my sleep, it's really easy that stuff."

At the very end he gets asked about Simpsons: The Movie and confirms that he is usind Elfmans theme in some twisted way: "I see myself in a way as Dannys orchestrator. For better or for worse I'm going to stay in the Danny world, except it's going to be my slant on the Danny world."

Great stuff, fun interview, must listen:

http://www.soundtrack.net/podcast/

-Snowster

[bondo 33]

"Zimmer music appeals to the lowest common denominator" - get over yourselves, please. Just admit to not liking it and move on. You don't have to insult those of us who DO enjoy his music.

However feel free to bash someone who says "I love Zimmer and no one else - synths are cool, orchestra is crap." THAT's okay.

[Vaderbait1 1]

I generally judge a score by how memorable it is. Simple scores can be really memorable as well. And a previous poster was right, it all comes down to taste. I prefer the upbeat, catchy Dead Man's Chest, and they believed that there were better themes in AWE. See people, disagreeing over Zimmer doesn't have to get so personal and bitter.

[Panthera 0]

The german website ONLINE FOCUS revealed that Hans ZIMMER didn't want to be nominated for the Oscars anymore.

"I was 7 times nominated ; Each time, it brought my life out its balance ; call, interviews and stress. That's why i decided it was enough. From now, I forbid the Filmstudios to submit my music to the Academy."

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Poor guy, being nominated for Oscars time after time! Why do such bad things happen to good people?

Ray Barnsbury

[gkgyver 1,645]

"Zimmer music appeals to the lowest common denominator" - get over yourselves, please. Just admit to not liking it and move on. You don't have to insult those of us who DO enjoy his music.

That's not an insult, it's fact.

If you like the lowest common denominator, that's fine, but it's still the lowest common denominator. You liking it doesn't make it any better, and pointing that out is only fair.

If you say it rains, you don't automatically insult people who rather have sunshine.

By the way, does Zimmer know any keys besides D minor? I always get a chuckle when I click on some new Zimmer sheet music and I see that "b" at the beginning of the bar.

[Ollie 1,059]

The german website ONLINE FOCUS revealed that Hans ZIMMER didn't want to be nominated for the Oscars anymore.

"I was 7 times nominated ; Each time, it brought my life out its balance ; call, interviews and stress. That's why i decided it was enough. From now, I forbid the Filmstudios to submit my music to the Academy."

Well at least he's smart enough to recognize crap when he hears it.

[bondo 33]

That's not an insult, it's fact.

If you like the lowest common denominator, that's fine, but it's still the lowest common denominator. You liking it doesn't make it any better, and pointing that out is only fair.

No, that would be OPINION. What constitutes the "lowest common denominator" is a matter of opinion. "Bad" and "good" are subjective. Wrap that around your brain if you can - music, like art, is subjective.

It's not good or bad - you either like it or you don't. It's quite simple, really.

[Henry B 50]

The lowest common denominator is the subpopulation (and vast majority) of film score fans that listen at the most casual level. ("Dude, Pirates of the Caribbean has sick music! I downloaded the main theme off Limewire.") These are the people that like various "themes," but may have only one or two or no soundtrack CDs. Hans Zimmer is the most popular film composer, probably in history, but most of the highest tier film score fans (those that have dozens of CDs, listen critically, and post on forums) dislike his works. So where does the popularity come from?

As gkgyver said, it is fact. This has nothing to do with intelligence or character, but it does generally have to do with how seriously one takes music.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Way too much is labelled as "opinion" nowadays.

Zimmer's music *is* the lowest common denominator. People not being aware of that doesn't change it at all.

You can proclaim earth is flat, the majority may even believe in it, but earth will still be round.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Way too much is labelled as "opinion" nowadays.

I disagree.

[Panthera 0]

That's not an insult, it's fact.

If you like the lowest common denominator, that's fine, but it's still the lowest common denominator. You liking it doesn't make it any better, and pointing that out is only fair.

No, that would be OPINION. What constitutes the "lowest common denominator" is a matter of opinion. "Bad" and "good" are subjective. - music, like art, is subjective.

It's not good or bad - you either like it or you don't. It's quite simple, really.

I'm going to have to agree with bondo on this.

[Red 75]

Way too much is labelled as "opinion" nowadays.

I disagree.

I agree with your disagreement (to a certain degree).

[gkgyver 1,645]

Of course you disagree.

Nobody would like to be called an idiot.

And I can't say anything against your disagreeing, can I? Because it's "opinion", rather than a shocking absence of taste, right? And what on earth could one say against an opinion, after all, opinion is untouchable, right?

BS.

It always works like this. Discussions take place, but there never is a winner because no winner is apparently allowed, which renders the whole discussion kind of obsolete, really.

The notion is always "Discussing my opinion is nice, but don't make me think too hard about it, please". In the end, there will always be some dolt saying "we have to agree to disagree", which seems to be the ultimate solution for anything.

But without conflicts, no solutions.

[Morlock 11]

Of course you disagree.

Nobody would like to be called an idiot.

And I can't say anything against your disagreeing, can I? Because it's "opinion", rather than a shocking absence of taste, right? And what on earth could one say against an opinion, after all, opinion is untouchable, right?

BS.

It always works like this. Discussions take place, but there never is a winner because no winner is apparently allowed, which renders the whole discussion kind of obsolete, really.

The notion is always "Discussing my opinion is nice, but don't make me think too hard about it, please". In the end, there will always be some dolt saying "we have to agree to disagree", which seems to be the ultimate solution for anything.

But without conflicts, no solutions.

Yes, but life isn't fair, and, in the end, people disagree. If there is a different opinion, than there obviously is a different opinion. And, when discussing the quality of a piece of creativity (or lack-there-of, depending on one's opinion), I don't see how it is not possible for one person to be right and the other to be wrong.

I've had many long, hard discussion about many things with many people. Generally, it's the conversation that is of value. You can change one's opinion, to be sure, but that doesn't make your opinion fact.

And 'We have to agree to disagree' is a phrase that is generally used (I find) when a person is talking to a dolt who thinks what he's saying is fact, and will not concider that there are opinions on such matters, not only facts.

For research, please see the life and times of Dr. Dan Hobgood.

[Red 75]

Saying that Zimmer is bad is opinion. There's just no getting around that. Even though I agree with this, the only fact about it is there is no absolute truth when dealing with art or pop culture. There is absolute truth in other things, though.

[Henry B 50]

You can't prove that this is bad music! I created it! I labored over it for years!

Really, there's no such thing as absolute truth, but it's more interesting to debate using logic and common sense than to stand around repeating "it's only your opinion" like a bunch of damn robots.

[bondo 33]

That's fine and good and all, but you're calling those of us who disagree with the assertion that "Zimmer is the lowest common denominator" idiots. You're saying that it's crappy music, and those of us who like it adhere to the phrase "Ignorance is bliss."

I don't like Graeme Revell's music - I think most of it is boring atmosphere. But you won't ever hear me say that it's crap, or that people who do enjoy it are the lowest common denominator. This is a very simple concept, I'm surprised we're still debating it...

[gkgyver 1,645]

You can't prove that this is bad music! I created it! I labored over it for years!

That is exactly the point!

In this context, it may be wrong to talk about "bad" music. There's just bland, repetitive, uninspired, uninteresting music.

Your "masterpiece" is without a doubt just that. And so is 80% of Zimmer's music. What you make of it, whether you like it, that's a whole different story, but Zimmer's music is derivative, bland, and repetitive. There's no shortcut to sneak around that.

And in this context, yes, ignorance is a bliss.

[Morlock 11]

You can't prove that this is bad music! I created it! I labored over it for years!

That is exactly the point!

In this context, it may be wrong to talk about "bad" music. There's just bland, repetitive, uninspired, uninteresting music.

Your "masterpiece" is without a doubt just that. And so is 80% of Zimmer's music. What you make of it, whether you like it, that's a whole different story, but Zimmer's music is derivative, bland, and repetitive. There's no shortcut to sneak around that.

What a singularly stupid post. Once again, you are expressing your opinion in a dumb, ego-centric manner.

Morlock- who is not saying with this that Zimmer's music is not derivative, bland, and repetitive, merely that stupid posts such as the one above are the bane of intelligence and conversation.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I don't see what's so singularly stupid about it. I like alot of repetitive and bland music, and yet I have to acknowledge that it is bland and repetitive.

And so is Zimmer's music. Blandness and the perception of it are two completely different things.

I have nothing against people liking Hans Zimmer's music.

I just can't stand it when people proclaim his stuff as intelligent and inspired, when it is, in fact by the way, not.

Go ahead, listen to Zimmer as much as you like, I would even put you your headphones on personally. Rave about you loving his music as much as your heart desires! But don't rave about his musical qualities - for they are few.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

The german website ONLINE FOCUS revealed that Hans ZIMMER didn't want to be nominated for the Oscars anymore.

"I was 7 times nominated ; Each time, it brought my life out its balance ; call, interviews and stress. That's why i decided it was enough. From now, I forbid the Filmstudios to submit my music to the Academy."

Well now if all composers aside john Williams did the same...

Anyway, well it seems we got rid of the MV scores from the oscars, since few of the 'minions' are nominated.

It sounds mean but really MV music is very popular... if a Williams score lost for a MV score, that would be as Santaolalla wining ,

[Morlock 11]

I don't see what's so singularly stupid about it. I like alot of repetitive and bland music, and yet I have to acknowledge that it is bland and repetitive.

And so is Zimmer's music. Blandness and the perception of it are two completely different things.

I have nothing against people liking Hans Zimmer's music.

I just can't stand it when people proclaim his stuff as intelligent and inspired, when it is, in fact by the way, not.

Go ahead, listen to Zimmer as much as you like, I would even put you your headphones on personally. Rave about you loving his music as much as your heart desires! But don't rave about his musical qualities - for they are few.

You think I don't acknowledge Zimmer's flaws? Of course I do. I do not defend him on the grounds of his amazing compositional skills. I like him for something else entirely. But that is quite beside the point. I am not taking offence to your dislike of Zimmer. But blandness is not a fact. It is an opinion.

[Henry B 50]

That's fine and good and all, but you're calling those of us who disagree with the assertion that "Zimmer is the lowest common denominator" idiots. You're saying that it's crappy music, and those of us who like it adhere to the phrase "Ignorance is bliss."

I did not say that you are "idiots," merely that you belong to the largest and least serious bloc of film music fans. Popularity is not always bad - after all, John Williams is nearly as popular as Zimmer and a much greater composer. Anyway, "lowest common denominator" was not originally my phrase, and it should probably just be dropped.

[Morlock 11]

But what of those that love Williams above all, yet also love Zimmer?

And, BTW, there are circles in which loving John Williams like we do is only slightely better than liking Zimmer. Are those the smallest, yet most serious bloc of film music fans?

[Henry B 50]

Exceptions to the rule. Would you not agree that Zimmer is generally less popular with serious film music fans? Of course, there are many ways to define "serious," but I'm just trying to establish a basic principle. Nothing absolute.

[Morlock 11]

Certainly, I would agree.