The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread

[JoeinAR 1,949]

its so funny because the music is so bad its not Oscar worthy anyways.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

its so funny because the music is so bad its not Oscar worthy anyways.

the shame is that if it were nominated, it could have won.

Popularity and all.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It isn't worthy of a nomination, but that's not the point being discussed. I just hate how the Academy functions. Studios send in FYC promos of scores, but you would think they would choose a score based on how it works in the movie, not how you like it on a damn CD.

[Delorean90 42]

But that's part of the criteria of an award-worthy score--any great score. If it's going to win, it should fulfill both functions of enhancing the film and being an outstanding piece of music in its own right. They are right to consider both.

Anyway, the multi-composer thing is a moot point, as others have said. The music itself isn't Oscar-worthy--and I wonder if the healthy dose of reworked passages from Begins could be a strain on eligibility/winningness.

[Romão 2,274]

Could Indy4 have its chances hurt by the use of the Raiders March?

[indy4 155]

ToD and LC were both nominated, so I doubt it.

[Romão 2,274]

That rule was not in effect back then

[indy4 155]

Then I certainly hope not...it isn't used much throughout the score, however, so hopefully the Academy members will see this.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

But that's part of the criteria of an award-worthy score--any great score. If it's going to win, it should fulfill both functions of enhancing the film and being an outstanding piece of music in its own right. They are right to consider both.

If you're critiquing a score for best original score, how it stands up as a listening experience on its own is completely irrelevant. There are scores that do wonders in the film, but suck on their own, and vice versa.

Then I certainly hope not...it isn't used much throughout the score, however, so hopefully the Academy members will see this.

It's got the Raiders March, it can't be nominated. But who knows, considering that they like to break their own f*cking rules, it could happen.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Oh, for Pete's Sake, indy4. "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" will not be disqualified because it contains the "Raider's March".

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yes it will, or at least it should be.

[Romão 2,274]

Return of the King won the Oscar. Even Babel won an oscar. They all used previously written themes or tracks.

[Henry B 50]

Then I certainly hope not...it isn't used much throughout the score, however, so hopefully the Academy members will see this.

Are you thinking of Last Crusade? The Raiders March is used incessantly in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

[Ollie 1,059]

The Raiders march will not disqualify it from being eligible.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Every respectable sequel score would be banned if that were the case (reprisals of previously written themes, I mean).

[Ollie 1,059]

Now re-using cues, such as the grail theme, Marian's theme and the Flight From Peru version of the Raiders March might disqualify it. Also depends on how much they were used.

You can re-use themes if it's a sequel but there has to be a certain percentage of original music.

[Romão 2,274]

The Grail theme was not a re-used cue, it was a new orchestration and rendition.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

There is no problem with quoting a previous piece of music here and there. And the other themes that you mentioned were completely relevant to the story. John Williams would have been crazy not to use those themes. Oh, and "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith" would have been disqualifed if they were that strict, right?

[indy4 155]

Who's to say it wasn't?

[Delorean90 42]

The "Flight From Peru" quoting I could see being a bugaboo for a KOTCS nomination. TDK does have more of the prevalent repurposed passages, though, and that could also be an issue.

But that's part of the criteria of an award-worthy score--any great score. If it's going to win, it should fulfill both functions of enhancing the film and being an outstanding piece of music in its own right. They are right to consider both.

If you're critiquing a score for best original score, how it stands up as a listening experience on its own is completely irrelevant. There are scores that do wonders in the film, but suck on their own, and vice versa.

I'm not talking about a "listening experience" per se, I'm talking about the quality of the music. A score may do wonders in the film and suck on its own, and a score may suck in the film and be a great listen, you're right on that. But that's why those scores shouldn't win. The best score is going to fulfill both qualities.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Who's to say it wasn't?

The people who nominated it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Their rules are complicated, they're stupid, and even pointless if they break them whenever they want. The whole list is up on their site somewhere. I'm too tired to go find it, I'll get it for you guys tomorrow if no one else does so by then.

I gotta finish this 6-page research paper...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

You do not need to trouble yourself. To Google.com, I go!

(Cue "Ride to the Nazi Hideout")

[indy4 155]

Who's to say it wasn't?

The people who nominated it.

RotS score was not nominated for an Oscar.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Oh. My mistake.

Anyways, regarding the rules....

Link One

Link Two

You must choose, but choose wisely. For as the true Link will grant you the Academy Award rules, the wrong Link will lead to certain Rick Roll.

[indy4 155]

I chose...poorly.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The Oscars are the same as most things.

If they award what you like, they're great. If they don't, they're old and out of touch.

[indy4 155]

The Oscars have constantly set double standards for scores in regards to the rules of submission. I'm sure some of the anger felt towards them is based on their personal choices, but a lot of it has good reason.

Having said that, I always look forward to the Oscars every year.

Now re-using cues, such as the grail theme[...]might disqualify it.

I can see the Academy members now:

- "This score is invalid due to Williams' use of previous material in the score, such as the Grail Theme."

- "Wait...that'd be Henry's Theme, actually."

- "Sort of. It's actually the motif for Henry and Indy."

- "It's the theme for the father and son. It works for Henry/Indy or Indy/Mutt."

- "The B Melody is the Father/Son bit, the rest is the Grail Theme."

- "You guys are wrong, it is the Illumination Theme..."

No other theme has sparked such controversy, confusion, and mystery among the ranks of John Williams addicts.

Or better yet, Indy 4 will be disqualified for JW's tracking of "Ah, Rats!!!"

[Koray Savas 2,251]

My anger towards the Academy is a constant thing, even if the people I want to win end up winning. With that being said, I still watch them every year, well, because I love film.

For those who don't want to go searching for it:

B. ELIGIBILITY

1. The work must be specifically created for the eligible feature-length motion picture.

2. The work must be the result of a creative interaction between the film maker(s) and the composer(s) or songwriter(s) who have been engaged to work directly on the film.

3. The measure of the work's qualification shall be its effectiveness, craftsmanship, creative substance and relevance to the dramatic whole.

4. The work must be recorded for use in the film prior to any other usage including public performance or exploitation through any of the media whatsoever.

5. Only the principal composer(s) or song writer(s) responsible for the conception and execution of the work as a whole shall be eligible for an award. This expressly excludes from eligibility all of the following:

(a) supervisors

(b) partial contributors (e.g., any writer not responsible for the over-all design of the work)

© contributors working on speculation

(d) scores diluted by the use of tracked or pre-existing music

(e) scores diminished in impact by the predominant use of songs

(f) scores assembled from the music of more than one composer.

6. The Executive Committee shall resolve all rules interpretations and all questions of eligibility.

7. It is within the sole and confidential discretion of the Board of Governors to determine what awards, if any, shall be given.

It puts composer with an (s) at the end on more than one occasion. Does that imply that more than one composer can work on a score? I think it does, but then you get that rule towards the bottom that says only 1 composer.

[Ollie 1,059]

The Grail theme was not a re-used cue, it was a new orchestration and rendition.

But it's still music that was previously used in another film and that was the point I was making.

[Romão 2,274]

Well, so is the Raiders March. POA was nominated in 2004, when this rule was already in effect, and was still nominated.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It's a bullpoo rule anyway, designed only to keep The Two Towers from getting a nomination in 2003.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yes but Williams basically started fresh and Hedwig's theme was the only returning theme, at least that's all I can really recall. Now COS would have been disqualified because of the re-use of music from SS.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Its Williams only output this year.

They have to nominate it!

And i hope it wins (there arent many good scores this year, for starters) and i would take it as a recognition for the franchise that has no Score Oscar.

[Ollie 1,059]

In all honesty, while KOTCS may end up being one of the better scores composed this year it still isn't Oscar worthy.

I think that says more about the sad state of film music.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

In all honesty, while KOTCS may end up being one of the better scores composed this year it still isn't Oscar worthy.

I think that says more about the sad state of film music.

I just dont care, worse crap has won the prize.

[Romão 2,274]

KOTCS would be one of the best scores of the year on any year

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I just dont care, worse crap has won the prize.

*Cough*Brokeback Mountain*cough*Babel*

KOTCS would be one of the best scores of the year on any year

Agreed.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

And i hope it wins (there arent many good scores this year, for starters)

There aren't that many, but there are a few, and few more to be released in the coming month(s).

[Red 75]

In all honesty, while KOTCS may end up being one of the better scores composed this year it still isn't Oscar worthy.

I think that says more about the sad state of film music.

Chances are it will be nominated.

[Ollie 1,059]

Since non of the prequel scores were nominated I highly doubt this one will be.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm fairly positive that it won't be nominated.

Ingelsias's Che

Howard's Defiance

Desplat's Benjamin Button

Newman's Revolutionary Road

Newman's WALL*E

Those are all the ones I think have a pretty good chance of being nominated. There are probably a couple more I can't think of at the moment.

[Red 75]

Some of those haven't been released yet.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I know, but knowing the Academy, those are the ones I think are good contenders.

[Ollie 1,059]

A majority of the damn films that will be up for awards on Oscar night haven't been released yet.

[Red 75]

A majority of the damn films that will be up for awards on Oscar night haven't been released yet.

True. Most Oscar-contending movies are released in the fall and winter.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Since non of the prequel scores were nominated I highly doubt this one will be.

this is a spielberg movie.

And tell me a year in where Williams has composed a score and has not been nominated.

I cant recall any recent one.

[indy4 155]

KOTCS would be one of the best scores of the year on any year

It is my favorite score of 2008 so far.

Since non of the prequel scores were nominated I highly doubt this one will be.

I thought JW didn't submit those for consideration?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

A majority of the damn films that will be up for awards on Oscar night haven't been released yet.

True. Most Oscar-contending movies are released in the fall and winter.

And we are in the fall and winter seasons. In a month and a half you'll have all of your contenders released.

And tell me a year in where Williams has composed a score and has not been nominated.

I cant recall any recent one.

There's a first time for everything.

[Henry B 50]

Since non of the prequel scores were nominated I highly doubt this one will be.

I thought JW didn't submit those for consideration?

I specifically remember that Revenge of the Sith was submitted. Granted, Williams had already garnered two nominations for more serious scores, so it's understandable that Star Wars was the odd man out.