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The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread


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Except that the media is going to focus on Ledger.

The media already is focusing on Ledger, and it isn't a good thing.

Why isn't it a good thing? Almost every review gushes about Ledger but also talks about how amazing all the other actors are in the film, usually listing them by name.

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But they start by talking about his tragic death and not the movie. The EW article this week talked about how no one in the film wanted to talk about Ledger. They wanted to talk about the movie and not his death.

Exactly. But beyond that there is so much to this film than just Ledger, although again he is a big presence and worthy of praise.

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However I am somewhat intrigued by the sequel.

That has to be the understatement of the year. Heath Ledger's Joker is singlehandedly going to make this the movie of the year. Its a shame that the movie has to be surrounded by his tragic death.

Why is it the understatement of the year? Because I'm not some drooling fanboy who's pissing himself with excitement?

The first film was bland with an awful score, now the same crew is returning and just because a decent actor who has shown promise dies before the film is released we're supposed to expect the best damn thing made this year?

While I'm expecting this film to be a top 3 of the summer I could be flat out wrong and after a strong opening it could die at the box office. With the exception of a few films most Superhero film's sequels generally gross less than the first one.

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However I am somewhat intrigued by the sequel.

That has to be the understatement of the year. Heath Ledger's Joker is singlehandedly going to make this the movie of the year. Its a shame that the movie has to be surrounded by his tragic death.

Why is it the understatement of the year? Because I'm not some drooling fanboy who's pissing himself with excitement?

Even though I am not a drooling Batman fanboy, I am pissing myself with excitement.

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Isn't the score really utterly bland?

Just a thought, having heard the full thing.

I think it's probably the right score for the film, judging by what's been said. I think the same for BATMAN BEGINS, a score which - while I like it a lot - probably doesn't present that great a listening experience, but fits the movie like a glove. As mentioned earlier, the score complimenting the film is more important than the score as music on its own, and I think it might work that way, and as also mentioned earlier, I don't think styles such as Elfman's would fit the film (not that I'm a giant fan of Elfman's... aside from one or two tracks, I don't think it's anyway near the great piece it's talked about as).

Although I do wish they maybe had tried to balance the more Nine Inch Nails-style with a more developed thematic score. On the subject, I still think Shirley Walker's BATMAN: MASK OF THE PHANTASM is the best Batflick score.

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I keep wondering ... why is it that every time criticism against Zimmer's (and Howard's) scores comes up, the point that Elfman's sound would be wrong appears like a reflex?

Why is that even a valid point? Doesn't that imply Elfman could do nothing with these Batfilms but revamp "Batman"?

There are many shades between a double- standard RC action score and a bombastic, gothic, operatic approach a la "Batman", you know!

To me, it often seems as if Zimmer/Howard's output is presented as the only approach truly fitting for these films.

The choice is not between "fitting the film" and the original "Batman" sound; the choice is between stereotypical RC and more tasteful music.

And I can't hear the standard argument "it fits the film" anyway, that's the rudimentary requirement.

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I keep wondering ... why is it that every time criticism against Zimmer's (and Howard's) scores comes up, the point that Elfman's sound would be wrong appears like a reflex?

Why is that even a valid point? Doesn't that imply Elfman could do nothing with these Batfilms but revamp "Batman"?

There are many shades between a double- standard RC action score and a bombastic, gothic, operatic approach a la "Batman", you know!

To me, it often seems as if Zimmer/Howard's output is presented as the only approach truly fitting for these films.

The choice is not between "fitting the film" and the original "Batman" sound; the choice is between stereotypical RC and more tasteful music.

And I can't hear the standard argument "it fits the film" anyway, that's the rudimentary requirement.

Someone edited Elfman's music onto scenes from Begins and it fit fine in my opinion. I'm all for the new, gritty atmosphere of the Batman movies, but they use it as an excuse to be lazy about the music.

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Do you know where these videos can be found? I'd really like to see them.

It was a while ago...last year maybe? They were on youtube, so I'd search on there. I don't have a link though, I'm going by memory.

EDIT: Here's ones:

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Someone also took the Arena cue from AOTC and tracked it over the final battle from POTC 3. It fit like a glove.

I don't know whether that's a statement as to how bad Zimmer's music is or how interchangeable Williams' action music has become.

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It doesn't fit perfectly, obviously. THey were scored for two separate scenes. The point is, the mood fits perfectly fine, Zimmer and Howard could have easily developed themes and had a wonderful, memorable, fitting score. They could have even made it "gritty." I'm just tired of the excuse that because this is a new Batman, we can't have any interesting music.

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It doesn't fit perfectly, obviously. THey were scored for two separate scenes. The point is, the mood fits perfectly fine, Zimmer and Howard could have easily developed themes and had a wonderful, memorable, fitting score. They could have even made it "gritty." I'm just tired of the excuse that because this is a new Batman, we can't have any interesting music.

Exactly my thought. I also believe there is no excuese for the bland music, no matter how the movie looks like. Z and H's score for the BB was just bland and capable composers like them ARE able > if they would like >to write something interesting, without being in contrast with the mood of the new movie.

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Worked for me...

Just think how much better it would work if Elfman actually wrote it for that scene...

Elfman was offered to work on the score, he turned it down.

Do you have a source for this? Since the most I've ever heard about Elfman and the movie is that he ran into Zimmer, who joked about Elfman doing it.

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I'm thinking how much of the 'blame' for this has to lie with Nolan - he originally went to Zimmer alone for the score (which could explain I guess why JNH's contributions seem to be fairly minimal, at least on the album). I haven't seen a single movie directed by him where at some point I thought 'I must have that piece of music'. Even from the first BB score, I only have about 5 cues culled from the complete score boot.

The guy in that audio interview asked whether, in the light of all these separate releases, a complete version would surface, at which point they went on about the 'hours and hours' of music they had composed. I now agree with their lack of enthusiasm at such a release, and even thought the film looks like it's going to be good, I don't think it's going to change that.

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I think Elfman has had his say on Batman and was probably not interested in re-visiting the franchise.

Richuk hit the nail on the head. As much as we criticize composers for their music, the ultimate blame must go to the director/producers because they do the hiring and allow/request the music you hear.

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No, but it is their fault for hiring and accepting the music. It's obvious, for whatever reason, that Nolan likes Zimmer's music or someone else involved pushed for Zimmer's music so I place the blame with them.

I work in management, If I hire someone inadequate to work it's not their fault. The blame will lie with me for doing a poor job finding an employee capable of doing a good job.

Now if I hire a talented person and they screw up then you can place the blame at their feet for not understanding what was expected or delivering quality work.

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I don't think anyone's denying the fact that it probably works like a house on fire in the movie, and heck, after seeing the movie I may well give the album a second chance (I did listen to a pretty pooty quality version as well), but a disastrous initial listen doesn't really bode well for an independent listen.

I can literally hear my brother's forthcoming comments when we walk out of the cinema and I remark about how generic and rubbish the music was. He just doesn't get it...

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I'm avoiding all trailers and clips for Wall-E and Dark Knight. I have high enough expectations for both of them that I want to go in as 'blind' as possible.

I made that mistake with the Simpsons Movie, the trailer for which endlessly repeated several scenes to the point where they just weren't funny any more when you finally saw them on the big screen.

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Wow, they certainly are shooting for a record opening.

I'll probably wait a week or 2 before going to see it.

Dave and I are likely to do a double feature next week, Batman begins again, and Mamma Mia(what can I say)

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Meh. It only 'worked' because its generic.

It's not generic. I don't understand all the hate around this score. Hans himself said people aren't going to like it on album, because it is not a type of score you would listen on its own. I've heard parts of Why So Serious, I probably won't to listen to it that much, but from what I heard of it in the prologue, it works, and it works damn well.

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Meh. It only 'worked' because its generic.

It's not generic. I don't understand all the hate around this score. Hans himself said people aren't going to like it on album, because it is not a type of score you would listen on its own. I

Or more likely, he knew he was writing crap music.

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Meh. It only 'worked' because its generic.

It's not generic. I don't understand all the hate around this score. Hans himself said people aren't going to like it on album, because it is not a type of score you would listen on its own. I've heard parts of Why So Serious, I probably won't to listen to it that much, but from what I heard of it in the prologue, it works, and it works damn well.

Why release an OST if it's not something you can listen to on its own? He was lazy, knew people would be pissed off, and so took a pseudo-philosophical explanation.

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It's not generic.

Nooooooo ... not at *all*! :lol:

If you think TDK is generic, you haven't heard generic music.

Sure, there has been more generic music in the past, just like there has been worse music in the past. That doesn't change the fact that Batman Begins, at least, is quite generic sounding, especially compared to good music. Which should, after all, be the standard.

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Why release an OST if it's not something you can listen to on its own? He was lazy, knew people would be pissed off, and so took a pseudo-philosophical explanation.

Oh O.K. I'm just gonna go ahead and trust that you're in Zimmer's head and know exactly what he's thinking. And why release an OST? That's like asking why release any music. TO MAKE MONEY. They are releasing an OST, a Special Edition a Double LP Set, and then a Deluxe Edition. 2 of those are unnecessary.

It's not like HZ controls what gets released anyway. "Oh I was lazy and my music sucks, so I'm gonna release it anyway and say it's not listenable on it's own."

Fantastic job on a stupid post! :lol:

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