The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread

[Taikomochi 1,136]

From what I read, it doesn't look like anyone besides me found the leaked score. Before people attack me, I will say, I think it's helpful for me to listen to a score beforehand so I will appreciate more when hearing it in the movie.

Anywho, I've listened to small parts of it. "Why So Seroius?" is, IMO, awesome. Probably the most original piece as most of it sounds just like Batman Begins. Still, I like it. Most unfortunate the 16 minute final track has 2 minutes of skipping in it from the version I found.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

They are releasing an OST, a Special Edition a Double LP Set, and then a Deluxe Edition. 2 of those are unnecessary.

That's funny, not so long ago you took the release of three individual versions as a sign that the music is of awesome quality.

[Ollie 1,059]

It's not generic.

Nooooooo ... not at *all*!

If you think TDK is generic, you haven't heard generic music.

Yeah but you think ID4 is generic music.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

"Why So Serious?" has a creepy atmosphere to it, but it's nothing special.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

That's a knockout in the first round right there.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Fantastic job on a stupid post!

I have a long ways to go to catch up to yours it would seem.

[Richard Penna 3,688]

From what I read, it doesn't look like anyone besides me found the leaked score. Before people attack me, I will say, I think it's helpful for me to listen to a score beforehand so I will appreciate more when hearing it in the movie.

Anywho, I've listened to small parts of it. "Why So Seroius?" is, IMO, awesome. Probably the most original piece as most of it sounds just like Batman Begins. Still, I like it. Most unfortunate the 16 minute final track has 2 minutes of skipping in it from the version I found.

I also found it last week. I didn't give it a hugely detailed listen, but enough to get a flavour of every track, and 'Why So Serious?' wasn't among the ones I liked - I'm not sure what people hear in it TBH.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

They are releasing an OST, a Special Edition a Double LP Set, and then a Deluxe Edition. 2 of those are unnecessary.

That's funny, not so long ago you took the release of three individual versions as a sign that the music is of awesome quality.

Find a post of me saying that. You continuously make claims that I state certain things which I never have. HOOCHIE MAMA!!!!!!

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Does

Frodo die

in this one?

[Henry B 50]

"Why So Seroius?" is, IMO, awesome. Probably the most original piece as most of it sounds just like Batman Begins.

Guh?

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Find a post of me saying that. You continuously make claims that I state certain things which I never have. HOOCHIE MAMA!!!!!!

Since you asked for it, from the very bottom (no joke intended) of page 10:

Joker's theme was always going to be a few notes. They lived up to their promises. Expect a fully-developed and awesome BATMAN theme. Hell, if the score is getting a standard release, a special edition release, a double LP release, and a deluxe edition release: It must be f-ing good.

... and shame on you for making me do it.

And you were even wrong about expecting a "fully-developed and awesome Batman theme".

By Taikomochi

"Why So Seroius?" is, IMO, awesome. Probably the most original piece as most of it sounds just like Batman Begins.

Do you even have the faintest idea what "original" means? It's not original when it sounds just like XY.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

And you were even wrong about expecting a "fully-developed and awesome Batman theme".

Don't blame me for that, it's what Hans told us.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

What he did say was that they would never write a "fully- blown" theme, never ever. Because it would be "just wrong", whatever this means.

[Henry B 50]

I watched Batman Begins last night. Great film, but the score was a letdown, especially in the talky scenes. The score was far too accessible and heroic sounding.

Yes, you heard me correctly. There should have been frightening dissonances, alienating electronics, that sort of thing. Maybe some very dark jazz (but not the zany kind, like Goldenthal's). Instead, we got mostly optimistic, motivational music. And yeah, there's a Batman theme. I picked up on it right away. It's recognizable and heroic, but I don't like it. It's interchangeable with Black Hawk Down and Pirates and everything else. Blah blah blah uplift.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

That's what aggravates me most about Zimmer's score; not that it is dull, that can be expected by now, but that the movie deserved SO much better music.

[Henry B 50]

The greatest failure to me was the release of the nerve gas in the final act. The music didn't convey an inkling of the horrors transpiring.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I've said it already, but I say it again, Zimmer is too limited a composer to handle more complex emotions. Plus, his music is so symmetrical that flexibility isn't possible.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I watched Batman Begins last night. Great film, but the score was a letdown, especially in the talky scenes. The score was far too accessible and heroic sounding.

Yes, you heard me correctly. There should have been frightening dissonances, alienating electronics, that sort of thing. Maybe some very dark jazz (but not the zany kind, like Goldenthal's). Instead, we got mostly optimistic, motivational music. And yeah, there's a Batman theme. I picked up on it right away. It's recognizable and heroic, but I don't like it. It's interchangeable with Black Hawk Down and Pirates and everything else. Blah blah blah uplift.

I wouldn't call Z's Batman's theme heroic. Elfman's superhero music is heroic.

[Vaderbait1 1]

I watched Batman Begins last night. Great film, but the score was a letdown, especially in the talky scenes. The score was far too accessible and heroic sounding.

Yes, you heard me correctly. There should have been frightening dissonances, alienating electronics, that sort of thing. Maybe some very dark jazz (but not the zany kind, like Goldenthal's). Instead, we got mostly optimistic, motivational music. And yeah, there's a Batman theme. I picked up on it right away. It's recognizable and heroic, but I don't like it. It's interchangeable with Black Hawk Down and Pirates and everything else. Blah blah blah uplift.

I wouldn't call Z's Batman's theme heroic. Elfman's superhero music is heroic.

I think Z's theme gets just as heroic, which is why I keep saying Zimmer was just lazy and is making excuses for himself. My God, some of the climaxes of the themes in Begins and Dark Knight are more heroic than most of Elfman's scores.

[Desplat13 1]

I watched Batman Begins last night. Great film, but the score was a letdown, especially in the talky scenes. The score was far too accessible and heroic sounding.

Yes, you heard me correctly. There should have been frightening dissonances, alienating electronics, that sort of thing. Maybe some very dark jazz (but not the zany kind, like Goldenthal's). Instead, we got mostly optimistic, motivational music. And yeah, there's a Batman theme. I picked up on it right away. It's recognizable and heroic, but I don't like it. It's interchangeable with Black Hawk Down and Pirates and everything else. Blah blah blah uplift.

Yup.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I've said it already, but I say it again, Zimmer is too limited a composer to handle more complex emotions. Plus, his music is so symmetrical that flexibility isn't possible.

You obviously haven't seen enough of HZ's movies. No emotion in Gladiator? Black Hawk Down? The Thin Red Line? Tears Of The Sun? All of those are very emotional films, and his music is responsible for part of that.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

You don't seem to understand; I didn't say Zimmer's music can't be emotional, I said his music isn't able to go beyond the obvious, cliched emotions, since Zimmer takes forever to move his music forward.

A score, for instance, like Seven Years In Tibet conveys any number of specific and complicated feelings; it's this more mature sound that Zimmer can't produce and which makes him sound more amateurish compared to other composers.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

O.K. I can understand that. I haven't seen Seven Years In Tibet, so I can't comment. However, I wouldn't necessarily call the films I listed cliche emotion. Something like Tears Of The Sun can really strike deep. It's a very powerful film, despite some of its flaws.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I'm not necessarily talking about films either, just the music. A film can be horribly flat, and yet a great composer can indicate the depth of a soul, which isn't apparent on film.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

True, but it's hard for the music to solely convey the emotion. It happens from time to time though.

[Delorean90 42]

Agh! I missed the discussion of my video! Yeah, I made that video of the chase scene, but I didn't upload it to YouTube. The people who didn't like it should realize that up until the time Batman turns off his lights, I didn't make a single cut to the music. Although I was curious to see how more interesting music would work with it--particularly Elfman's--, a big reason for why I shared it was because it's amazing how, within the context of that musical approach (however wrong you may think it is for the film), it actually fits ridiculously well. One prime example is the bit where the Tumbler goes into weapons mode on top of the parking garage. I had no idea that would happen. I just started out "Batman to the Rescue" at a place where it seemed music could go, and all of those matches you see just happened. One of my favorite bits though is when the Tumbler comes back down to the road from that roof. I think it's clear that there is definitely room for more enthusiasm and energy in the score--loads of potential that just didn't get tapped. It doesn't have to be in that same gothic realm, but give it a little kick, man. As Fatty said, there are many shades between the two approaches, and I think the truly perfect approach for these films lies in one of them.

As for TDK, has anyone noticed that there is a buttload of TV spots being aired now, seeming to show more and more footage? It's kind of freaking me out. The other night I was watching TV and the spot started with

Gordon in the interrogation room with the Joker, where the lights turn on as Gordon leaves to reveal Batman standing behind Joker.

I was thinking. "Man! I really would've liked to have seen that for the first time in the film!" It just seems like an awesome moment that would've been better had it not been revealed beforehand. I'm really going to have to be cautious. Hopefully that won't ruin the moment too much for me, but I'm definitely leery.

[Henry B 50]

Zimmer's score fits the film a little better than Elfman's would have, but that isn't saying much. I'll say it again: harsh, foreign and dissonant music is what the film needed... A completely atonal Batman score would have been interesting, no?

[Delorean90 42]

If executed right, then it would certainly be better than what we got. If Herrmann or Goldsmith could've gotten that opportunity, I'm sure it would be gold. I've said it before: the film itself holds the potential for a classic, four-star score. But I don't know about completely atonal. I think there is room for well-written, tonal music, that even gets enthusiastically heroic. It doesn't have to get gushy, it doesn't have to be Superman but let's actually enjoy the film, hm? There's room for some triumphant stuff. There's some stuff that's made for that. Remember the bit where Loeb tells Gordon, "There isn't anyone left to send," and as if in response, the Tumbler shoots past across the river? Even the two-note motif (which was used there) could be used so much better than it was, but it's stuck in the same mode. The mood for Bruce's quest is not the same as the mood for Batman busting onto the scene, and yet it's pretty much scored like it is. It's that kind of stuff that leaves me scratching my head.

And of course, again, the quality of the music is the most disappointing thing. There are different levels of approach that might be a little more or less appropriate, but if well-written, could be more forgivable. But not only does the score seem to play as though it's walking around with an atomic wedgie, it doesn't even do that interestingly, but stays bland and biteless.

[Henry B 50]

If executed right, then it would certainly be better than what we got. If Herrmann or Goldsmith could've gotten that opportunity, I'm sure it would be gold. I've said it before: the film itself holds the potential for a classic, four-star score. But I don't know about completely atonal. I think there is room for well-written, tonal music, that even gets enthusiastically heroic. It doesn't have to get gushy, it doesn't have to be Superman but let's actually enjoy the film, hm? There's room for some triumphant stuff. There's some stuff that's made for that. Remember the bit where Loeb tells Gordon, "There isn't anyone left to send," and as if in response, the Tumbler shoots past across the river? Even the two-note motif (which was used there) could be used so much better than it was, but it's stuck in the same mode. The mood for Bruce's quest is not the same as the mood for Batman busting onto the scene, and yet it's pretty much scored like it is. It's that kind of stuff that leaves me scratching my head.

That's a good point. I suppose a little tonal heroism is acceptable for the final act. The music for Bruce's quest should have been cold and alien.

Another moment that stood out to me as a failure was the flashback to Bruce and Rachel talking, which sounded like a Howard moment. The music was about as predictable as it comes. This doesn't surprise me, though. I've heard a lot of lousy stuff from Howard.

[Delorean90 42]

Are you talking about when they're in the kitchen, or when they're in the car? I'm assuming the former, and if that's the case I suspect that that might have had something to do with Nolan. Howard definitely has the ability to write good stuff for things like that. But that scene actually brings me to another point: it almost seemed overscored at times (in quantity, not in the nature of the scoring). Scenes like this and the scene where Fox first shows Bruce around kind of seem like they should've been left without music. At first I didn't realize there was music there, and then I saw the film again and I was thinking, "What? Where'd that come from?" Had the music been better in those scenes it might have worked, but the music in the kitchen scene was fairly forgettable, and the music in the first Fox scene made me feel like I was playing the N64 Goldeneye game instead of watching a Batman film.

[Henry B 50]

Yes, the kitchen scene. It's terrible. Maybe Nolan wants his scores to suck so that they don't steal the thunder of the other aspects of the film. I can actually sort of appreciate this idea.

[MattyO 62]

I got The Dark Knight soundtrack yesterday in Australia. Whilst there is definitely some development from Begins it is a very generic Zimmer score. The final track is like listening to Zimmer's career over 16 minutes. This doesn't bother me because I haven't outgrown Zimmer yet, but this score is going to rile up a whole lot of film score fans.

'Why So Serious?' is an interesting approach to The Joker, undeniably, but really The Joker is such an amazing, iconic character and it is Heath Ledger's final role, that the character deserves a theme, not a lattice of various sounds. I just don't understand how Zimmer, when given this kind of character, can go and "write" something like WSS?, any other composer would go for their life. I wonder what James Newton Howard would have done if allowed to score The Joker.

Anyway, the score doesn't disappoint me, I expected as much and arguably there is some development of the material from Begins. Like I said, I'm not completely averse to Zimmer's sound yet, but I can totally understand the people who already hate this score and the many, many people who are going to hate it by the end of this week.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

[Wojo 2,453]

All the negative hype that you guys are giving this score makes me glad I'm not a Zimmer fanboy to go out and buy this score. I own a few, but I save my superhero scores for Elfman and Williams.

But this brings up an interesting subject, probably worthy of its own thread, if it hasn't already had one. We all know of fantastic movies with fantastic scores, like Ben-Hur, Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, the three Lord of the Rings, Harry Potters, etc. There's a number of movies with really great scores that go to so-so movies, like Cutthroat Island, Hook, and Independence Day.

So does The Dark Knight potentially belong to the group of really great movies (if we believe the hype, we'll find out Friday) with really lousy or just so-so soundtracks? What other movies belong in that group?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

So does The Dark Knight potentially belong to the group of really great movies (if we believe the hype, we'll find out Friday) with really lousy or just so-so soundtracks? What other movies belong in that group?

I don't think it will be 'really great'. It will probably be pretty good, very good even...but with a crap score. Batman Begins belongs in that group too, so does Goldeneye...

[Red 75]

The score will work better in the movie than on the album, that's for sure.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The score will work better in the movie than on the album, that's for sure.

Indeed.

I can give a lot of you another reason to hate the score, I wonder if I should tell. Hmm....

[Richard Penna 3,688]

*Curious*

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Indeed.

I can give a lot of you another reason to hate the score, I wonder if I should tell. Hmm....

May I rip a page out of your book? Why thank you Koray.

Hans Zimmer

Ladies and Gentlemen... I've just stole my own opening of "Dear Clarice" from Hannibal and used it as my wonderful Joker motif in "Why So Serious?".

[Wojo 2,453]

Is that all? At least he's honest.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Well he isn't really actually. That's me using fraudulent Zimmer quotes as a form of welcomed sarcasm.

[indy4 155]

Nice poster, this film has some really great posters.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

finally some bad reviews to this "perfect" movie,

[Morlock 11]

A couple of critics I like are amongst the nay-sayers. Excellent. Means the movie might actually be as edgy as some have said (A movie can't be really edgy and universally loved).

[MattyO 62]

I saw the film last night at a preview screening in Perth (thanks to MySpace). All I can say is stunning, stunning work from everyone involved. Yes, the movie is dark, very dark and yes it is long, but it is such a solid script and cast that these things don't hurt it.

Heath Ledger was superb. The hype about him getting a Best Supporting Oscar nomination, perhaps played up because of his death, is completely justified. If he was still alive he would totally deserve it as well. But, Aaron Eckhart was just as mesmerising in "both" of his roles.

Of course, here, the important thing is the score. I've been listening to it all weekend without having seen the film and it does sound kind of bland and certainly generic Zimmer. Naturally, though, the score works in the film, I'd say even better than the score to Begins. The wailing siren sound representing The Joker is used throughout the film to represent the chaos surrounding the character, whenever something goes wrong the siren starts wailing and Joker appears. The action stuff is typical Zimmer, but it's effectiveness is the same as Zimmer's scoring of the Pirate movies: generic, but begrudgingly entertaining. The Harvey Two-Face theme, appearing in suite form on album, is used nicely in the film and I wish we had a better representation of the character on album. One annoying thing is that one scene with Harvey Dent uses the Joker's siren to represent Dent, when the entire movie beforehand has used that audio signature for the Joker. Of course, it may be more appropriately labelled as the Chaos theme or Anarchy theme, rather than just The Joker's theme.

So, there's just a few thoughts.

[Romão 2,274]

A couple of critics I like are amongst the nay-sayers. Excellent. Means the movie might actually be as edgy as some have said (A movie can't be really edgy and universally loved).

Couldn't agree more, Morlock.

And some of the criticisms are really silly, like complaining the movie is not funny enough or that comic book movies should not take themselves seriously.

[Red 75]

or that comic book movies should not take themselves seriously.

I've heard that several times, and it's aggravating. It's like they would rather have a dumb, vapid, forgettable film.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They'd rather have Iron Man.

[Red 75]

Except that Iron Man was good.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

A couple of critics I like are amongst the nay-sayers. Excellent. Means the movie might actually be as edgy as some have said (A movie can't be really edgy and universally loved).

Couldn't agree more, Morlock.

And some of the criticisms are really silly, like complaining the movie is not funny enough or that comic book movies should not take themselves seriously.

Nolan's Batman films just prove that Ang Lee's Hulk was ahead of its time.