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The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread


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It really is the Joker's movie. I could easily watch that character for a whole nother movie, which just makes Ledger's untimely death even more tragic.

Well I sort of disagree there, Eckhart was just about as good and as interesting. Bale did very well, with a little less to do this time and Gary Oldman was superb.

Thinking about it, I think the best choice madfe in this movie was not not reveal anything about the Joker or his motivations.

The last few years cinema's 2 most memorable villians, Darth Vader

I thought Vader was 'ruined' in ROTJ

Though ESB started it all.

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It seems like a lot of people are sick of it, but both Ted Pigeon and Jim Emerson have started very interesting discussions about the film, which have helped me sharpen my love for the film, and some of my misgivings (and the reaction to both).

http://tedpigeon.blogspot.com/2008/08/terr...opinionism.html

http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2008/08...ark_knight.html

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It really is the Joker's movie. I could easily watch that character for a whole nother movie, which just makes Ledger's untimely death even more tragic.

Well I sort of disagree there, Eckhart was just about as good and as interesting. Bale did very well, with a little less to do this time and Gary Oldman was superb.

Thinking about it, I think the best choice madfe in this movie was not not reveal anything about the Joker or his motivations.

The last few years cinema's 2 most memorable villians, Darth Vader

I thought Vader was 'ruined' in ROTJ

Though ESB started it all.

No, Star Wars, and The Empires Strikes Back cemented Vader's legacy as a bad guy, I just don't consider the other films

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It seems like a lot of people are sick of it, but both Ted Pigeon and Jim Emerson have started very interesting discussions about the film, which have helped me sharpen my love for the film, and some of my misgivings (and the reaction to both).

http://tedpigeon.blogspot.com/2008/08/terr...opinionism.html

http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2008/08...ark_knight.html

Interesting articles, even if this whole TDK paranoia seems a bit scary to me. I choose to stay away from it as far as possible.

On a sidenote I watched yesterday a documentary about Alan Moore (the author of V for Vendetta, From Hell, and Watchmen comic books). He was talking there about some magic stuff and looking for higher Self. It made more sense than it seems, trust me. Anyway, there was a clip about modern culture and advertisments and how it tries to brainwash us. It works to the point that when there is no desire to generate a single original thought or opinion. The advertisment as a death of free will. Maybe not very original, but this whole situation with Nolan's film kind of exactly resembles of what he was talking about. Scary.

Karol - who doesn't see this film as a political statement at all.

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The last few years cinema's 2 most memorable villians, Darth Vader and Hannibal Lector have been virtually neutered by misguided attempts to show us exactly how and why they became so evil, and we were even asked to pity them or at least feel some symphathy.

I don't know, I enjoy the extra dimensions the prequels added to the DV. I can watch SW and ESB and enjoy seeing Vader as nothing but an evil villain, I can watch RotJ and enjoy seeing good triumph in Vader's heart, I can watch the prequels and enjoy watching the tradegy and complexities of of how love turned one evil.

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The last few years cinema's 2 most memorable villians, Darth Vader and Hannibal Lector have been virtually neutered by misguided attempts to show us exactly how and why they became so evil, and we were even asked to pity them or at least feel some symphathy.

I don't know, I enjoy the extra dimensions the prequels added to the DV. I can watch SW and ESB and enjoy seeing Vader as nothing but an evil villain, I can watch RotJ and enjoy seeing good triumph in Vader's heart, I can watch the prequels and enjoy watching the tradegy and complexities of of how love turned one evil.

:P;);):lol::lol:

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My sentiments exactly.

I've seen Dark Knight, and while it's a stunning movie, the score is even worse in the film. It's all over the place, and often enters so painfully unsubtle that you wonder whether Zimmer and Howard were scoring to picture at all or whether they just wrote pieces which Nolan edited in at random.

PS: Ah, Koray is in this thread, I expect harsh criticism in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ....

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saw it on Imax today, looks really good, but not good enough for 4 bucks more.

I tried to listen to the score, and when I did, all I could think of is why is POTC playing.

The music is AWFUL, perhaps it works, but I found it annoying. The Joker's theme is a rip off of Texas Chain Saw Massacre.

this movie is too good to have such a bad score. I know people like it, and fine, glad you do, but I know the movie would even be better if there was a quality score attached to it.

I agree with Neil it will not hold up as well over time but its still a very good film. Ledger's performance didn't blow me away like it did the first time, but Eckhart's did more. Still they are both the high points of the film.

The bat voice is more annoying than ever but that has more to do with everyone complaining, so it was more on my mind. Its a really good movie.

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saw it on Imax today, looks really good, but not good enough for 4 bucks more.

I tried to listen to the score, and when I did, all I could think of is why is POTC playing.

The music is AWFUL, perhaps it works, but I found it annoying. The Joker's theme is a rip off of Texas Chain Saw Massacre.

this movie is too good to have such a bad score. I know people like it, and fine, glad you do, but I know the movie would even be better if there was a quality score attached to it.

I agree with Neil it will not hold up as well over time but its still a very good film. Ledger's performance didn't blow me away like it did the first time, but Eckhart's did more. Still they are both the high points of the film.

The bat voice is more annoying than ever but that has more to do with everyone complaining, so it was more on my mind. Its a really good movie.

Joker's theme is a rip off of Hannibal, not Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Although it could be both, because Jablonsky did the Chainsaw films. I understand HZ's scores can sound similar to previous ones, but I don't hear any POTC in The Dark Knight. If anything, the score is more alike to that of Black Rain.

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I'm fine with the voice, it's not just there, it has a purpose. If I would complain about Batman, it would be his disappearances. Like on the rooftop when he's talking to Harvey Dent and Gordon, and then he's just gone. Not really possible to do that unnoticed. I just poke fun at it and say he's hiding behind the wall, or like in the bank, he's just around the vault pressed up against the wall.

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As a Batman fan, I loved seeing the disappearances. It was all throughout the cartoons (and it was in the comics, wasn't it?), and I always got a kick out of that. One of those great things. I think Nolan and Goyer were trying to set that up in Begins, particularly with the bit of Ducard talking about stealth.

I understand the practical, within the story reasons why he would do it, I just can't help but snigger a little every time he has more than a few words to say. With all that money couldn't he invest in a voice modulator or something? :rolleyes:

And when the batteries run out, or it gets wet, or gets hit or destroyed...? "Pay no attention to the man behind the modulator!" :)

I think it works great. It goes with the whole not quite human angle.

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I'm fine with the voice, it's not just there, it has a purpose. If I would complain about Batman, it would be his disappearances. Like on the rooftop when he's talking to Harvey Dent and Gordon, and then he's just gone. Not really possible to do that unnoticed. I just poke fun at it and say he's hiding behind the wall, or like in the bank, he's just around the vault pressed up against the wall.

That's just something that Batman does.

I'm fine with the voice, but Bale overdoes at times. No one beats Kevin Conroy's voice acting in Batman: The Animated Series (and the spin-off movies) as far as that's concerned.

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I'm fine with the voice, it's not just there, it has a purpose. If I would complain about Batman, it would be his disappearances. Like on the rooftop when he's talking to Harvey Dent and Gordon, and then he's just gone. Not really possible to do that unnoticed. I just poke fun at it and say he's hiding behind the wall, or like in the bank, he's just around the vault pressed up against the wall.

He did have ninja stealth training though, and their entire image is based around disappearing and appearing from seemingly nowhere. No-one complains when ninjas do it.

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saw it on Imax today, looks really good, but not good enough for 4 bucks more.

I tried to listen to the score, and when I did, all I could think of is why is POTC playing.

The music is AWFUL, perhaps it works, but I found it annoying. The Joker's theme is a rip off of Texas Chain Saw Massacre.

this movie is too good to have such a bad score. I know people like it, and fine, glad you do, but I know the movie would even be better if there was a quality score attached to it.

I agree with Neil it will not hold up as well over time but its still a very good film. Ledger's performance didn't blow me away like it did the first time, but Eckhart's did more. Still they are both the high points of the film.

The bat voice is more annoying than ever but that has more to do with everyone complaining, so it was more on my mind. Its a really good movie.

Joker's theme is a rip off of Hannibal, not Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Although it could be both, because Jablonsky did the Chainsaw films. I understand HZ's scores can sound similar to previous ones, but I don't hear any POTC in The Dark Knight. If anything, the score is more alike to that of Black Rain.

Wayne Bell and Tobe Hooper did the music to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, not Jablonsky(who did that awful remake), he was like 3 or 4. Haven't you figured out by now I'm old school.

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I'm fine with the voice, it's not just there, it has a purpose. If I would complain about Batman, it would be his disappearances. Like on the rooftop when he's talking to Harvey Dent and Gordon, and then he's just gone. Not really possible to do that unnoticed. I just poke fun at it and say he's hiding behind the wall, or like in the bank, he's just around the vault pressed up against the wall.

That's just something that Batman does.

I'm fine with the voice, but Bale overdoes at times. No one beats Kevin Conroy's voice acting in Batman: The Animated Series (and the spin-off movies) as far as that's concerned.

The voice didn't bother me most of the time. There was one line in the last scene between Batman and Joker when Bats says something like this: "There are people in this city that believe in GOOD!". Or something along the lines. It was really hilarious - the line itself and the way he said it. He really overdid it. But, really, it is the only problem of the film - the dialogue. There's simply too much of it and it sometimes treats the audience as complete idiots by explaining what can be already seen on the screen or present the themes of the film by straight forward explanation. But then again, it's still a summer blockbuster about guy dressing himself as a bat to fight crime, so... ;)

The film itself was much better still on the second viewing. I liked it very much the first time, but it seemed there was too much information for one viewing. I didn't notice any problems with the pacing. it seemed natural to me. No it seems a lot more clear. The ferry sequence wasn't tiring at all.

As for Ledger... it's not really A great role. It's very good, but because of the nature of the character itself, it's so inconsistent that no matter what he did - it would still work. It's entertaining and scary at time - I agree. But because the Joker is not complicated, the role isn't as well. There is nothing underneath. It's a show. That was the point. But the truly great acting comes from more introverted parts. That's why his role in Brokeback Mountain was so much better.

Did it bother anyone that at the beginning of the movie the bus drives out of the bank and no one around seems to even notice it?

I noticed more score this time. The Joker note worked well, but more as a sound design than anything else. Besides, most music is monotonous and treats itself so seriously, as with most Zimmer work. I wish he did something more subtle one in a while, because his work is so overbearing and hevy-handed, that I can't listen to it. It's not even the style. I think that's exactly what makes the film so exhausting for some people.

Can't wait to see it again ROTFLMAO

Karol

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There was one line in the last scene between Batman and Joker when Bats says something like this: "There are people in this city that believe in GOOD!". Or something along the lines. It was really hilarious - the line itself and the way he said it.

That was the equivalent of the New York bridge scene in Spider-Man. Although not quite as bad.

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Okay, but it's not like he's explaining it to us. He's talking to the Joker--rubbing it in his face, I guess you could say. It would be kind of unnatural for him to just sit there and not say anything.

And on this note I will mention that I wonder how many of the people who complain about all the dialogue and Joker's speech at the end and such realize that that kind of thing is all over comic books and comic adaptations. I hadn't heard any complaints about that stuff before, and I didn't think it was a problem here.

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Okay, but it's not like he's explaining it to us. He's talking to the Joker--rubbing it in his face, I guess you could say. It would be kind of unnatural for him to just sit there and not say anything.

And on this note I will mention that I wonder how many of the people who complain about all the dialogue and Joker's speech at the end and such realize that that kind of thing is all over comic books and comic adaptations. I hadn't heard any complaints about that stuff before, and I didn't think it was a problem here.

Batman already said: "did you think all people are as nasty as you?" (or something like that) and "you are alone" in that scene. That was enough.

Besides, I have no problem with Joker's dialogue (or monologue, for that matter). He's insane and it adds to the character actually. I'm more worried with Batman, Gordon, Rachel and Alfred. This last one may give speech that works in trailers, but seems a bit forced in a movie that is largely very well executed. Sometimes you don't have to say something to make a point. In the case of The Dark Knight it's already there, in the context of the plot itself and imagery.

Karol

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Everytime Batman talks I have an urge to clear my throat.

I would love to see this film on the IMAX but the nearest one is an hour away, if it's even playing there.

I felt the whole ferry sequence was un-neccessary, I would have preferred the film end with the capture of the Joker or him escaping and carrying Dent's story over to the third film.

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I felt the whole ferry sequence was un-neccessary, I would have preferred the film end with the capture of the Joker or him escaping and carrying Dent's story over to the third film.

What?

The ferry scene is pivotal to the film, since it essentially concludes the Joker's story arc and proves his beliefs that civilisation turns to choas when the rules are changed wrong.

Someone did not pay attention, I think.

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Someone did pay attention. My main gripe, besides the music, was that the film was too long. I felt the film came to a conclusion after the the capture of the Joker and Dent's fate. It would have made for a better ending with the Joker escaping at the end and Dent's character set for a third film.

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The movie was not too long. I don't get people who complain about length. You're in the theater, do you need to be somewhere? Does the film bore you at a certain point? I'm not talking specifically to Mark here, but I know some people who don't like movies for the pure fact that they are long.

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I wasn't bored by TDK, I like long movies but I felt this one tried to cram a little too much into one film. I think Harvey Dent's storyline should have carried over to the next film. To me he was just as compelling as the Joker.

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I can't wait to see Bane break Christian Bale's back. Couldn't they have at least digitally removed that spot on the left side of his nose?? My attention focused on it the whole time.

bruce.jpg

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The movie never felt long to me, even though it pretty much was (especially compared to other films of its' type). I think those who complain about the length are more accurately complaining about how Harvey Dent's entire character arc was put into it. For me it might not have been completely necessary for this movie, but it ultimately made it better.

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