The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread

[Romão 2,274]

Batman has always represented the triumph of will and the determination of an human being to push himself to physical and intelectual perfection. I don't think Bruce Wayne would care if he was training with the enemy, as you put it, or not.

And BTW, that was Nepal in BB.

[Ollie 1,059]

Hopefully Dark Knight is an improvement over BB or else I can't see myself wasting anytime with it.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Batman has always represented the triumph of will and the determination of an human being to push himself to physical and intelectual perfection. I don't think Bruce Wayne would care if he was training with the enemy, as you put it, or not.

And BTW, that was Nepal in BB.

obviously not in this interpretation.

[Romão 2,274]

Bruce Wayne had to become Batman. There's more to it than just doning a mask. And even the mask is more than to hide his face. Burton ignored this aspects completely.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

thats because Batman didn't start when he first donned the mask, his presence was already established.

[Romão 2,274]

Barely, "8 sightings after only one moth". There was not examination of the Batman character, no exploration of his journey to become what he is. In my opinion, that's a very important element of the Batman mythos. He took more time with the Joker's origin that with Batman's. It should be the other way around, it should be the Joker the one with the obscure and unkown past.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I guess the way I see it is Burton's Batman is more about Batman and the Joker, it covers far less ground than does BB which I will grant has a larger story arc. Perhaps Batman could have been titled Joker Begins. Personally Michael Keaton is a far better Bruce and Batman to me, and Jack is untouchable as Batman.

[Romão 2,274]

Well, I do agree some of the elements of the conflict between Joker and Batman were very interesting, like a battle for the chromatic dominance over Gotham. And I did enjoy Jack's performance and Keaton was actually fantastic. BUt I am more than happy with Bale's casting, and truly expect great things from Ledger, I already did before his tragic death.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I just don't see why people are anticipating a great performance nothing he did up to then was truly inspired, not even his vastly overrated Brokeback Mountain role.

[tpigeon 3]

You've got to be kidding.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

you think Ledger had shown he was a great actor, you've got to be kidding? Lots of actors that arn't great have good performances once in awhile.

[Romão 2,274]

His role in Brokeback Mountain was very very impressive. And so were his performances in Candy, Lords of Dogtown.

[tpigeon 3]

As were his performances in Monster's Ball, The Brothers Grimm, and I'm not There, not to mention the underrated performance of his in Brokeback Mountain.

Ted

[Romão 2,274]

Oh yeah, he was fantastic in Monster's Ball, I think that's what you meant, Ted.

[QMM 4]

You looking forward to Batman: Gotham Knight, Merkel?

[Romão 2,274]

Of course, specially with the creative talent involved

[JoeinAR 1,949]

As were his performances in Monster's Ball, The Brothers Grimm, and I'm not There, not to mention the overrated performance of his in Brokeback Mountain.

Ted

never saw Monster's Ball, heard that Berry's win was pure tokenism, and very undeserved, or saw I'm not there(never heard of it). I saw Brother's Grimm and nobody was good in that, NOBODY.

[QMM 4]

Kevin Conroy just seals the deal

[tpigeon 3]

As were his performances in Monster's Ball, The Brothers Grimm, and I'm not There, not to mention the overrated performance of his in Brokeback Mountain.

Ted

never saw Monster's Ball, heard that Berry's win was pure tokenism, and very undeserved, or saw I'm not there(never heard of it). I saw Brother's Grimm and nobody was good in that, NOBODY.

So that tokenism is based on something you heard, huh. Interesting that you would point that out and nothing else, considering you haven't seen the movie.

Ted

[JoeinAR 1,949]

As were his performances in Monster's Ball, The Brothers Grimm, and I'm not There, not to mention the overrated performance of his in Brokeback Mountain.

Ted

never saw Monster's Ball, heard that Berry's win was pure tokenism, and very undeserved, or saw I'm not there(never heard of it). I saw Brother's Grimm and nobody was good in that, NOBODY.

So that tokenism is based on something you heard, huh. Interesting that you would point that out and nothing else, considering you haven't seen the movie.

Ted

I'm going by what I heard, I've yet to hear one person say that she really was just great in the movie(which I heard is awful), but she does help the argument here, she won the Oscar, but her career as an actress has been rather bland , just as I see Ledger's.

[tpigeon 3]

Well make it one. She was really great in the movie. Now you can say you've heard different things.

Ted

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I don't believe you, you're just saying that.

But even if you arn't, you have to admit she's been more disregarded than regarded for her acting, and I think Ledger is the same.

[QMM 4]

That still wouldn't diminish her role in Monster's Ball

[tpigeon 3]

No it wouldn't. And you're wrong about Ledger, Joe. Dead wrong, to use your wonderfully blunt language.

Ted

[JoeinAR 1,949]

well we'll never know for sure. I hear the Olsen Twins will play him in the Dark Knight 2.

[Morlock 11]

Well make it one. She was really great in the movie. Now you can say you've heard different things.

Ted

I was underwhelemed by her performance there. In general, I think she's a featherweight actor at best. Not too hard on the eyes, but not much of an actress.

[tpigeon 3]

George Lucas ain't much of a director, but Star Wars is a great movie. The point is, I'm not a huge Halle Berry fan, but her performance (along with Thornton's and Ledger's) were excellent in that film. I'm not even addressing the Oscar stuff here. It was simply a very good performance. I'd rather not get into whether she deserved it or not. Let's take these performances for what they are.

Ted

[Delorean90 42]

Gary Oldman IS Jim Gordon, has to be the geekiest line on this board in awhile.

Ummm...okay? We're on a John Williams fan board debating the portrayal of a comic book character. Geekiness is hardly something I'm shying away from right this second. Would you prefer it if I said, "Gary Oldman was perfect as Jim Gordon"?

there was never anything wrong with Batman that required the character to be fundementally changed, just the execution.

The fundamentals of the character weren't changed in Begins.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

well then we'll have to disagree, I just don't see much character development of Gordon, and Batman going from a bent detective to a japanese assassin type is a fundemental change in my book. I have to say I did like Michael Caine's last line in the trailer.

[Delorean90 42]

As far as character development goes, you'll have to blame the script, but his portrayal was fantastic. Seeing him do the real detective work would be nice, but if by Japanese assassin type you're talking about his martial arts and stealth stuff, well, again, that's been around for a long time now.

[Red 75]

Gordon wasn't meant to have a big character arc in Begins, because most of the film was spent solely on Bruce Wayne/Batman. Most of the characters in the film are seen as revolving around Bruce, which is why he as a character is never overpowered by any villains or anyone else (something that's common in superhero movies). That being said I do think he could have been utilized a bit better, but it does not detract from Oldman's great portrayal.

[Henry B 50]

Most of the characters in the film are seen as revolving around Bruce, which is why he as a character is never overpowered by any villains or anyone else (something that's common in superhero movies).

Funny you should say that...

[tpigeon 3]

Character development is boring.

Ted

[Red 75]

Most of the characters in the film are seen as revolving around Bruce, which is why he as a character is never overpowered by any villains or anyone else (something that's common in superhero movies).

Funny you should say that...

I doubt that Joker will have more screen time than Bruce Wayne/Batman in the film. The trailers and marketing have made it seem that way, but it's just that, marketing.

[QMM 4]

Most of the characters in the film are seen as revolving around Bruce, which is why he as a character is never overpowered by any villains or anyone else (something that's common in superhero movies).

Funny you should say that...

I doubt that Joker will have more screen time than Bruce Wayne/Batman in the film. The trailers and marketing have made it seem that way, but it's just that, marketing.

Nolan's gone on record saying that Dent has the bigger arc in the film (as opposed to the Joker)

[Red 75]

I know about that. He went on to say that Dent's story was the true backbone of the film, and that Joker had no character arc whatsoever (which I think is a good thing).

[Romão 2,274]

First look at Two Face (might be considered spoilerish)

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/36628

[Jacob 0]

Whoa. That's messed up.

[Trent B 337]

FYI that's just concept art but don't be surprised if it actually ends up being close to the final version for the film.

[crocodile 7,999]

Looks good

Oh, and the ninja-whatever thing comes from the Batman comic books of the 70's. Nolan's film was supposed to honor all GOOD Batman eras. Which it did pretty well, I think.

I liked Nicholson's Joker, but I don't need to see this kind of performance in TDK. Nor do I want to.

Karol.

[Audax 0]

According to batman-on-film this could be the first snippet of the DK score: http://www.hersheys.com/reeses/darkknight/

It's sounds different but it could also be some kind of remix of the BB score.

[Red 75]

At least the first part of that was used in the first teaser trailer. It could be a snippet from the score, I'm not sure.

[Vaderbait1 1]

I don't think it's a snippet. If it is, it sounds like a direct rip off of the first, which was terrible by most any standard you use.

[Morlock 11]

http://www.filmmuziek.com/titles.cgi?go=composertalk

Interview with Zimmer and JNH about the score. Promising tidbits about the score, methinks.

[Morlock 11]

No takers?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I started listening but then stopped, since I don't really have much interest in the score. Any particular points of interest you care to quote?

[Red 75]

Good to know that James Newton Howard is scoring the Harvey Dent side of the story. There's a lot of great material there.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

A nice bit of Hans Zimmer in denial:

HANS ZIMMER: The thing we really worked hard on for BATMAN BEGINS was this idea of an iconic motif. Now, what James has just said is absolutely right. The studio loved it, but I don't think they quite realized how iconic it was...until after these few years have gone by. And now when you hear those two notes, you don't have to see Batman on the screen. You know he is coming and that this is a "Batman film" and nothing but a "Batman film."

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yep, screw Hedwig's Theme or the Fellowship Theme...the mainstream public has truly become one with the two-note Batman motif.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Joker's theme is only 1 note.