The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread

[indy4 155]

Yes.

Indy 4 is a rehash of old themes mixed with a couple new decent ones. It is definitely not brilliant.

Huh? There are 4 new themes and 3 returning ones. Raiders March is barely used throughout the film, other than the end credits. When it is, it is fresh and exciting arrangements, with the exception of the 2 uses of "Flight from Peru." Marion's Theme is used, what, twice? Once in Jungle Chase, once during the wedding. Henry's theme is used twice as well, both in versions that don't even appear on the OST. And the new ones are new, brilliant themes (we have swashbucklers, cold evil themes, militaristic march-like themes, and mysterious exotic themes).

"Molossus," my favorite BB track, does not even begin to compare with "Jungle Chase," "A Whirl Through Academe," "Ants!," "The Adventures of Mutt," "Finale," etc. . . .

I don't know why all this is spoiler barred, but it's not in the Indy subforum, so what the hell.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Greetings, fellow JWFanners.

I would appreciate it if you could all continue this thread by having a conversational discussion about the impending release of The Dark Knight and its score.

Rather than resorting to namecalling and tantrums.

That is all.

- Marc

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Joker's theme was always going to be a few notes. They lived up to their promises. Expect a fully-developed and awesome BATMAN theme. Hell, if the score is getting a standard release, a special edition release, a double LP release, and a deluxe edition release: It must be f-ing good.

Probably will be the best score of the year, definitely better than Indy, which is not that hard to top.

Yeah, right.

First the waltz comment, then the claim that the amount of Special Editions says something about the quality of the music, and now a sequel to an already mediocre score you haven't even heard yet is better than Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull.

That's almost too much to compute all at once and tell you why you are somewhat deluded.

But every once in a while, comments like that are needed to remind you that you are indeed still sane.

Or more sane than other at least.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Rather than resorting to namecalling and tantrums.

- Marc

I'm having trouble abiding by this, especially with Fatty's last comment.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Well, you started.

And you can't expect a xxxxxx comment like

Hell, if the score is getting a standard release, a special edition release, a double LP release, and a deluxe edition release: It must be f-ing good.

slip by without some not so discreet eyerolling.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Wait...The Happening is out now? Is it any better than JNH's previous M.Night Shamalambalac scores?

And back to the Dark Knight: I can say, definitively, that there is nothing I have read about the score to make me think they are actually going to deliver on their promise of a better score. Everything points towards and even more simplistic score, and I just don't have faith in them to create a fully rich and wall-to-wall good score. Both of them had great pieces, but never entire scores, in my mind. I want them to, but they won't.

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

[Red 75]

I'd like Koray to admit he's wrong.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

About what?

[Red 75]

All of Zimmer's scores are simplistic and/or waltzes.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

If you don't know what a waltz sounds like, then you shouldn't be talking about music. I'll admit to something when I'm wrong. It is a fact that his scores are structured as waltzes. The man said it himself, so maybe you should talk to him.

You can play any of Hans' scores easily on a piano, if that's not simple, I don't know what is.

[Delorean90 42]

"The Blue Danube" is a waltz. "Up is Down" is not.

Not having seen the actual quote, my guess is that what he actually said was something along the lines of Williams speaking of the music from Raiders as often balletic in certain ways. He didn't literally mean it was a ballet, but just that he drew certain inspirations in tone and pacing that were present in the work.

[John Crichton 4]

Greetings, fellow JWFanners.

I would appreciate it if you could all continue this thread by having a conversational discussion about the impending release of The Dark Knight and its score.

Rather than resorting to namecalling and tantrums.

That is all.

- Marc

You can lead a horse to the pool, but you can't make it swim...

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

It is a fact that his scores are structured as waltzes. The man said it himself, so maybe you should talk to him.

Just because something has a certain drive doesn't mean it's a waltz, even if Zimmer says so. The man has often talked about ideas that didn't show in his music at all, so a comment from him that his scores are structured as waltzes is to be taken with a ton of salt.

Maybe he's *thinking* about waltzes when writing his music, but that doesn't mean it shows. Don't throw around such musical terms that have a definition as if you knew what you're talking about.

From Brockhaus Musik: "Walzer, french Valse, english Waltz: Couple dance in 3/4, appeared around 1770 in the Austrian/ South German area for the first time. [...] Characteristic became the form of introduction, chain of five waltzes and coda with thematic fallbacks, the quicker tempo compared to the ländler and the slight anticipation of the second backbeat."

If you don't know what a waltz sounds like, then you shouldn't be talking about music.

Clearly *you* are the one who shouldn't talk about music, but you won't realise it, even when you get hit in the head with it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm having an extremely hard time of not... I'm not gonna even say cause I'll get banned if I do.

I'm just ignore anything you have to say from this point onward, FattyMcButterpants.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

That's what you've always done, you just hid it with a few words.

My dear fellow, I've given you numerous points and evidence that you are on the wrong track. You, on the other hand, have done nothing on the matter, except providing a few themes that you perceive as waltz- like, nothing more.

If you can come up with some source of authority that backs you up, I might start taking you seriously. Until then, you're nothing more than a hot- headed Zimmer fan blowing smoke.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Who said I was a Zimmer fan?

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Just a feeling ... preferring Dark Knight over KOTCS without having heard the former gave me a hunch.

And you might want to change your avatar ...

"Who says I'm fat?"

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm going to make an official statement here:

I am not, nor will I ever be a Hans Zimmer fan. I like a select handful of his scores. Some, as I've said before on many occasions, I enjoy as entertainment and not actual quality score. I support Zimmer at what he does, because he has been an essential part of bringing new technologies to the film scoring business. He has also created the sound for the modern warfare genre, which other composer go out of their style to use, which I see has a great achievement. I am also fine with his RCP collaborators, they have fun doing what they do, and I envy that. This does not mean I like their music, in fact, I despise pretty much anything RCP with the exception of Hans Zimmer, John Powell, and Harry Gregson-Williams. Maybe 1 or 2 scores here and there from Mancina or Rabin, but like I said, as entertainment. I defend what I believe greatly, especially when it comes to RCP because it seems most don't know or understand them entirely (i.e. who composes what in each score, or how many actual composers).

My favorite composers are: Ennio Morricone, John Williams, James Newton Howard, Michael Giacchino, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Harry Gregson-Williams, Danny Eflman, Thomas Newman, James Horner, Alan Silvestri, and Howard Shore.

I highly respect and understand the genius of Jerry Goldsmith, Bernard Herrmann, Elmer Bernstein, and other Golden Age composers. However, I have never really been able to get into their sound. I love a few scores from each though.

My least favorite composers are: Tyler Bates, Brian Tyler, John Frizzell, Graeme Revell, John Debney, Randy Edelman, and BT (not even a composer). Debney and Edelman have at most a couple fantastic scores, and I like those.

Marco Beltrami is midlevel for me. I really like a few of his scores, but right now he seems to be a stock composer. I look forward to some of the projects he works on in his future.

THERE! That pretty much sums up me and film scores. Go to hell, Fatty. I don't want to talk to you anymore.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Okay ...? Still, doesn't explain your ridiculous statemens earlier.

If you haven't noticed, I haven't criticised you for being a Zimmer fan.

[Delorean90 42]

I'm going to make an official statement here:

I am not, nor will I ever be a Hans Zimmer fan. I like a select handful of his scores. Some, as I've said before on many occasions, I enjoy as entertainment and not actual quality score. I support Zimmer at what he does, because he has been an essential part of bringing new technologies to the film scoring business. He has also created the sound for the modern warfare genre, which other composer go out of their style to use, which I see has a great achievement. I am also fine with his RCP collaborators, they have fun doing what they do, and I envy that. This does not mean I like their music, in fact, I despise pretty much anything RCP with the exception of Hans Zimmer, John Powell, and Harry Gregson-Williams. Maybe 1 or 2 scores here and there from Mancina or Rabin, but like I said, as entertainment. I defend what I believe greatly, especially when it comes to RCP because it seems most don't know or understand them entirely (i.e. who composes what in each score, or how many actual composers).

My favorite composers are: Ennio Morricone, John Williams, James Newton Howard, Michael Giacchino, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Harry Gregson-Williams, Danny Eflman, Thomas Newman, James Horner, Alan Silvestri, and Howard Shore.

I highly respect and understand the genius of Jerry Goldsmith, Bernard Herrmann, Elmer Bernstein, and other Golden Age composers. However, I have never really been able to get into their sound. I love a few scores from each though.

My least favorite composers are: Tyler Bates, Brian Tyler, John Frizzell, Graeme Revell, John Debney, Randy Edelman, and BT (not even a composer). Debney and Edelman have at most a couple fantastic scores, and I like those.

Marco Beltrami is midlevel for me. I really like a few of his scores, but right now he seems to be a stock composer. I look forward to some of the projects he works on in his future.

THERE! That pretty much sums up me and film scores. Go to hell, Fatty. I don't want to talk to you anymore.

Look, man, you're taking this to a ridiculous (and childish) level. A couple posts back he was trying to make an intelligent point, and you blew him off. Take it down a few notches. Take a deep breath (or two or three).

If Zimmer is one of your favorite composers, then you're a fan in some capacity. That's not a bad thing, and I don't see anyone saying that it is. We (well, I am anyway) are just trying to intelligently discuss TDK, the comments being made about its score, etc. So some people make some snarky comments. Oh well.

Everyone just take it easy. It's not worth getting worked up at each other over this. (Now, getting worked up over the score is an entirely different matter. )

[Red 75]

Koray, I will admit that I don't know a lot about music, but I'm still fairly positive that everything that Zimmer has written is not a waltz. Could you explain how "Up is Down" is a waltz? I'm not familiar with the Zimmer quote you brought up, but the man can be wrong.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I don't know the other scores you mentioned, but Pirates as well as King Arthur are definitely not waltzes, even if you stand on your head.

And simply being written in 3/4 doesn't make it a waltz either.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Koray, I will admit that I don't know a lot about music, but I'm still fairly positive that everything that Zimmer has written is not a waltz. Could you explain how "Up is Down" is a waltz? I'm not familiar with the Zimmer quote you brought up, but the man can be wrong.

I'll admit to exaggerating a bit by saying everything. I tried to find the interview where he said he always utilizes waltzes in his scores, but I think the video was taken down from YouTube for some reason. "Up Is Down" is not so much a contemporary waltz as Jack's theme. It is somewhat waltzy though. I also know probably the bare minimum about music. But you cannot deny his constant use of waltzes in his scores. It may have come off that I said everything he ever composes is a waltz, but that's that not what I was trying to get across.

I think you guys were trying to say that that was not true, while I was under the impression that you understood what I was trying to say.

To Fatty - I'm not saying it's a pure full out waltz, but he utilizes the structure and rhythm of them, and there is usually 1 track that is very much like a waltz, and others that are blatant waltzes like Gladiator, Backdraft, and Matchstick Men.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Listen, Zimmer's scores emphasise almost constantly the meters in a very strong way, they almost never break it, and when you do that, a 3/4 meter always has a very characteristic motion, much like 5/4.

But 3/4 does not equal a waltz; it's part of the waltzes characteristic, but it's by far not the only one.

3/4 is nothing more than a rhythmic device, a waltz is much more; you can't say a piece is very close to a waltz just because it's in 3/4 and shows it.

[Ollie 1,059]

Greetings, fellow JWFanners.

I would appreciate it if you could all continue this thread by having a conversational discussion about the impending release of The Dark Knight and its score.

Rather than resorting to namecalling and tantrums.

That is all.

- Marc

You can lead a horse to the pool, but you can't make it swim...

I thought the saying was you can lead a horse to water......

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Greetings, fellow JWFanners.

I would appreciate it if you could all continue this thread by having a conversational discussion about the impending release of The Dark Knight and its score.

Rather than resorting to namecalling and tantrums.

That is all.

- Marc

You can lead a horse to the pool, but you can't make it swim...

I thought the saying was you can lead a horse to water......

But horses CAN swim.

[Ollie 1,059]

Or maybe the saying was "You can lead a camel to water but you can't make him drink".

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

If you do that after a journey through the desert, the camel will drink a great deal of liters of water in very few minutes.

Who makes these sayings? Not a biologist i suppose

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Greetings, fellow JWFanners.

I would appreciate it if you could all continue this thread by having a conversational discussion about the impending release of The Dark Knight and its score.

Rather than resorting to namecalling and tantrums.

That is all.

- Marc

You can lead a horse to the pool, but you can't make it swim...

I thought the saying was you can lead a horse to water......

But horses CAN swim.

But then there are horses, and then there are stupid horses.

[Ollie 1,059]

Just like people.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed!

[Hitch 57]

The agree with the statement made by the Honourable Gentlemen in the previous 2 posts. What were you talking about again???

[Wycket 36]

The track list is up. Good news is that the CD contains 73:24 minutes of score. Also the tracks are titled by scene rather than bat-names. Unfortunately the tracks are clearly not in order, but that is a small technicality. I'm going to hide the tracklist as there might be a potential spoiler or two.

1. Why So Serious? 09:14

2. I'm Not A Hero 06:34

3. Harvey Two-Face 06:16

4. Aggressive Expansion 04:35

5. Always A Catch 01:39

6. Blood On My Hands 02:16

7. A Little Push 02:42

8. Like A Dog Chasing Cars 05:02

9. I Am The Batman 01:59

10. And I Thought My Jokes Were Bad 02:28

11. Agent Of Chaos 06:55

12. Introduce A Little Anarchy 03:42

13. Watch The World Burn 03:47

14. A Dark Knight 16:15

[Morlock 11]

A 16 minutes track? Even for Zimmer, that's long.

[Red 75]

A 16 minutes track? Even for Zimmer, that's long.

Probably too long.

[Wycket 36]

Maybe it includes End Credits? Don't forget, JNH is working on this as well (pretty much the only reason why I show interest for a Zimmer score)

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Is track number one a Joker suite? If it is, ten minutes for one note is a stretch.

[Vaderbait1 1]

I'm betting Track 3 is the second to last, chronologically. That's probably a pretty easy one to pin down.

And no, I don't think Track 1 is. I think it refers to a particular scene. I don't think we'll get a Joke Suite. Themes don't really seem to be strong points among composers these days.

[Red 75]

According to one of the interviews Zimmer said that there would be a Joker suite and it would be around 9 minutes long. He better have some awesome variations on that one note.....

[Delorean90 42]

Those track titles look pretty awesome. They get me more pumped for the film than for the soundtrack, but having actual titles does help inspire interest. I still say there has to be more to the whole Joker one-note thing than meets the eye; perhaps it's a misunderstanding or miscommunication. A single note just doesn't make sense. As an aspiring composer, I know that even on a lazy day I would be busting to use at least one other note. It can't be what it seems.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Those track titles look pretty awesome. They get me more pumped for the film than for the soundtrack, but having actual titles does help inspire interest. I still say there has to be more to the whole Joker one-note thing than meets the eye; perhaps it's a misunderstanding or miscommunication. A single note just doesn't make sense. As an aspiring composer, I know that even on a lazy day I would be busting to use at least one other note. It can't be what it seems.

Maybe he meant that there's a repeating, one note build up to the real theme? But that wouldn't make sense to say that, either.

[Red 75]

An "alternate trailer" has been released:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=65zKQYpjpiE

[indy4 155]

I'm actually getting excited for this film, and I only thought that the first was okay.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

A 16 minutes track? Even for Zimmer, that's long.

Shows how much you know about Hans Zimmer.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm not one to quickly say this, but I'm banking on this being the best summer blockbuster this year. Possibly best blockbuster of 2008 if it wasn't for my high hopes for Quantum of Solace.

- Marc, excited.

[Vaderbait1 1]

I'm not one to quickly say this, but I'm banking on this being the best summer blockbuster this year. Possibly best blockbuster of 2008 if it wasn't for my high hopes for Quantum of Solace.

- Marc, excited.

Me and you both. In fact, those are the only two movies I'm really looking forward to at all this year. I guess I might catch Iron Man when it comes out on DVD.

[indy4 155]

I doubt this will be better than Indy 4 (in my mind), because I thought that the first was merely okay.

[Romão 2,274]

New clip of Harvey Dent as Two Face

http://www.whysoserious.com/myhero/

[Vaderbait1 1]

I love Indy 4, but this will be the best movie of the year, I expect. That clip was the second full clip we got of the movie so far, right? Other than trailer clips, I mean.

So we've got the Opening Sequence and the Two-Face clip.

It looks amazing!

[Red 75]

Very nice clip. I'm excited to see Two-Face done right on screen, after the laughable portrayal by Tommy Lee Jones in Batman Forever.