Original MIDI mockups

[ChuckM 1]

I know that a lot of film composers use MIDI mockups as they are writing the score. Do those original MIDI mockups ever get leaked? If so, does anyone know of a website or someplace to get a hold of some?

[Red 73]

I doubt Williams uses them, since he rarely ever uses a computer.

[Ollie 859]

The last thing I'd want to do is listen to a bunch of annoying midi mockups.

I do not know of any place that has actual composer midi mockups.

[King Mark 2,924]

The last thing I'd want to do is listen to a bunch of annoying midi mockups.

[Datameister 1,394]

Really, the only reason for me to listen to such a MIDI would be to understand the artistic process and possibly understand the composition better. Williams is the only film composer whose work is both complex enough and enjoyable enough for me to even be interested in this, and I know he doesn't do MIDI mockups. It's all piano and handwritten sketches for him, which is quite remarkable, considering the variety of tonalities he achieves.

[Saxbabe 28]

One person that comes to mind that does extremely detailed MIDI mockups is James Newton Howard. And his MIDIs he has said he tries to make very realistic (with an impressive range of samples) so that a directors can get a clear idea of what the music will sound like and how it works to picture. In fact in a radio interview I heard, he remarked he basically does his orchestrating completely in them, so from there his orchestrators really aren't doing much more than transposing and extracting.

There was once a great article about his process on the web from Keyboard magazine, the cue demonstrated was "Egg Travels" from Dinosaur, and it had the MIDI posted to compare to the actual track, it sounded very good. I still have it around somewhere. But there is some kind of echo, time delay going on in the MIDI, that is distracting.

I doubt mockups appear often, though they can be interesting as far as the compositional process.

[Datameister 1,394]

I'd love to hear that "Egg Travels" MIDI, Saxbabe. I generally dislike MIDIs, but that's a truly outstanding cue--I like it better than plenty of Williams moments, and that's saying something!--and I'd love to hear Howard's initial mockup.

BTW, the last part of the Williams quote in your sig should read "Only music can make fantasy reality." No comma between "fantasy" and "reality." </nitpicking>

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Yes, that mockup of The Egg Travels was very impressive.

There's also a demo of John Debney's main titles and the first cue for CutThroat Island on the 2-disc Prometheus release of that score.

[Datameister 1,394]

Do either of you know where that Howard mockup can be heard?

[ChrisAfonso 159]

Elfman's mockups for "Nightmare before Christmas" are floating around, too... interesting stuff, they already include all the individual orchestrational details and everything that makes it the "Elfman sound"...

[Morlock 9]

Do either of you know where that Howard mockup can be heard?

I looked around a bit...but to no avail. It was on MacMusic.org, but I couldn't find it now.

[Luke Skywalker 1,284]

I think that in the more music from gladiator CD there is a demo version of 'The Battle'

But its ages since i last touched that CD.

[skyy38 21]

http://www.wingsofworship.com/chansondelange/FindingLost.mov

Listen to the music.

File size is 42.6 MB

This is a QUICKTIME .MOV. It is not set for streaming.Best thing to do is right click and select "save as..."

Meanwhile you can also listen to this:

http://mahawa.jw-music.net/amateurs/index.htm

Clonk Superman,to the left and then hit the mp3 on the right.

Tell me which one you prefer....

I didn't do ANY of the above,btw.

[Richard Penna 2,082]

I'd also LOVE to hear this Egg Travels mockup

I'm googling to try and find this thing - I'll shout if I find it.

[Datameister 1,394]

Thanks! Best of luck to you...be sure you holler REAL loud if you find it...

[Richard Penna 2,082]

The closest I got was 2 dead mp3 links. So unless anyone actually has it, we're not going to hear it anytime soon

[Saxbabe 28]

The closest I got was 2 dead mp3 links. So unless anyone actually has it, we're not going to hear it anytime soon

LOL. PM me. But, I'm telling you there is something odd with it, it's got some kind of echo going on, I think it was a sync issue with the samples, maybe one of you who works with MIDI could shed more light on it.

It really does sound in many places, just like the real track, I think he used some of the same samples. That is still THE cue that got me into JNH. I was familiar with some of his scores in passing, but was actually looking him up on the net when I realized he was scoring Dinosaur (c. 2000) and found that article with that clip. It had the MIDI and the the final version. I was like, my god, this guy is brilliant, I have to hear his other scores! So consistenly good I've hardly been disappointed since. Even his early stuff is interesting.

It's so cool to see over the last few years a lot of people at JWFan who also love JNH.

[Datameister 1,394]

I hate to argue, but I don't think the track you PMed me is the MIDI mockup. It sounds exactly like the original orchestral recording, only played twice simultaneously with a one-second mismatch, and some extra bell parts thrown into the mix. I don't think he used samples for the final recording, and what you sent me doesn't sound similar...it sounds identical.

That is still THE cue that got me into JNH. I was familiar with some of his scores in passing, but was actually looking him up on the net when I realized he was scoring Dinosaur (c. 2000) and found that article with that clip. It had the MIDI and the the final version. I was like, my god, this guy is brilliant, I have to hear his other scores! So consistenly good I've hardly been disappointed since. Even his early stuff is interesting.

I feel exactly the same way. That's by far my favorite JNH cue to this day. Absolutely gorgeous material! I'm frequently semi-disappointed by his work in other films because I tend to compare. Disney's Atlantis had some great work, too. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem as consistently brilliant or amazing as John Williams. He seems more like the kind of guy whose work is at least competent most of the time, but only truly exceptional on somewhat rare occasions.

[AI 0]

I read that page, a long time ago, and listened to both of the files. They were in fact the same file, identical, I looked at them in a sound editor also, just to make sure. The links were not correct. What you heard is the final orchestral version in both cases.

[Saxbabe 28]

Yeah, it's really weird, I didn't change the title of the supposed MIDI, it's the one they had on it posted in the article. "The Egg Travels (MIDI)V1" is their tag. Go figure.

MIDI samples can actually sound that good (especially coming from him) but there is a delay of about 1 second through, most noticeable in the latter half. Odd. He is known to record live instrument samples from sessions and stuff though.

But anyway, that's the file that was linked to that article, whatever it is.

[Datameister 1,394]

MIDI samples can actually sound that good (especially coming from him)

The timbres of sampled instruments can be very convincing, but human performers can pull off subtleties in the interpretation that computers just can't replicate yet. The bassoon solo stuff in the beginning and the fluttery woodwind stuff just before the low strings begin that fun rhythmic passage are good examples of that. You can hear vibrato, phrasing, and tonal control that just doesn't happen on that level with samples. It can be mimicked...but not replicated at that quality level yet.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to say that you're purposely sending out a bad file or something. In fact, I really appreciate you sending it to me so readily and with such a friendly demeanor.