Grade Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix by Nicholas Hooper

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

Happy Pappy, Derivative, and every John Williams cliche in the book. The music sounded like John Williams, not Harry Potter.

Prisoner of Azkaban is lightyears ahead of that....and every other John Williams score since 1993, and to a lesser degree ahead of Phantom Menace and The Lost World.

That said, the Hedwig's Theme concert version stands as one of his greatest compositions, if not the greatest.

Yes, oh, yes.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I don't understand why there seems to be something inherently wrong with "happy pappy." Damn cynics!

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

Happy Pappy, Derivative, and every John Williams cliche in the book. The music sounded like John Williams, not Harry Potter.

Prisoner of Azkaban is lightyears ahead of that....and every other John Williams score since 1993, and to a lesser degree ahead of Phantom Menace and The Lost World.

That said, the Hedwig's Theme concert version stands as one of his greatest compositions, if not the greatest.

Yes, oh, yes.

Yes to all of it? Who are and what have you done with Ross!?

[Datameister 2,042]

I don't understand why there seems to be something inherently wrong with "happy pappy." Damn cynics!

Heh. I think Williams did a fine job of scoring those scenes, because they already are "happy pappy." They can get a little annoying, but they're not as frequent as Blumenkohl makes it sound. And despite what nearly everyone says, I do not hear any net shift towards a darker direction in the Potter scores. To me, HP:SS remains the darkest score--listen to cues like the one(s) in the Forbidden Forest, or the one accompanying the final confrontation with Quirrel/Voldemort, or even Hedwig's theme itself, which I don't find to be as lighthearted as many people do. CoS doesn't count because it's more or less the same score with some additions and modifications; PoA has dark moments, but it strays from the quasi-Elfmanesque tonalities of SS and loses some of its darkness that way. People (especially not on this site) cite GoF as a very dark score, but my annoyance with that score overwhelms any dark feelings it produces in me. It's textbook dark...but not truly evil-sounding. Then there's OotP, a topic we've strayed quite far from (partially my fault), which is the most lighthearted of all the scores so far.

[Henry B 50]

Sorcerer's Stone sounds very spooky, but it is not heavy or tragic, so that's a different sort of "dark."

[Jacob 0]

Eh in terms of that vein of music, I prefer Leaving Hogwarts from Chamber of Secrets.

You mean Reunion of Friends from Chamber of Secrets?

I agree. The CoS finale is my favorite Harry's Wondrous World cue.

[Henry B 50]

It's overstated. The original "Leaving Hogwarts" is fine the way it is; adding unnecessary extensions and flourishes diminishes it. It would have been nice if Williams had written an original cue for the finale, but that was neither possible under the composing schedule nor desirable, since director Columbus evidently wanted a copy of the original film in most of the Secrets design aspects.

[Morlock 11]

I don't like it because of the scene it accompanies. Out of place scene that was given far too much importance.

[gkgyver 1,645]

"Reunion Of Friends" and "Finale" (from PoA) are the only pieces, and scenes, so far that made me cry. Although "Leaving Hogwarts" got me close, too.

I also don't really see the descend into darkness that people see in the Potter films and scores. PoA remains the most dramatic and "serious" film.

[Datameister 2,042]

Sorcerer's Stone sounds very spooky, but it is not heavy or tragic, so that's a different sort of "dark."

Good point.

EDIT:

It's overstated. The original "Leaving Hogwarts" is fine the way it is; adding unnecessary extensions and flourishes diminishes it.

Absolutely agreed.

I don't like it because of the scene it accompanies. Out of place scene that was given far too much importance.

REALLY absolutely agreed. Having the entire hall cheering for ten minutes because Hagrid's back after they've been perfectly silent so that he can have a special conversation with the three kids--really, really bad idea for the ending of the film. I can tolerate the music outside of the scene, but I'm with Henry on this...it's just too big, and the spectacular Sorcerer's Stone cue from which it is derived actually achieves more by trying less.

[Joe Brausam 214]

Back on the subject of Hooper's score...

I've seen OOTP three times and listened to the score outside of it many more times, and each time I find that I appreciate it even more. With GOF I could imagine something replaceing Doyle's work, however I don't get that feeling with this score. This one really does seem to just fit in a way. I'm actually glad we didn't have Williams for this, I enjoy Hooper's work. I wouldn't give up some cues like The Room of Requirements, Possesion, Sirus Deception (especially the part scoreing the flight to the ministry), or Loved Ones for anything.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I'm pretty much the same way. While I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd prefer this over hearing what Williams would've done, the score's really grown on me over the past few weeks. I love the setpiece flying cues ("Flight of the Order of the Phoenix" and the second half of "Sirius Deception"), Umbridge's delightfully pompous theme, the mischief and fun of "The Room of Requirements" and "Dumbledore's Army," and the wonderful build-up in "The Ministry of Magic." And the action music toward the end of the film, while fairly simple and unoriginal, has a geat urgency and tension to it, something I felt was lacking from Doyle's score. If I could rate Hooper's score again, I'd give it a B+.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

The only cue that really gets me is 'Room of Requirement'. That, and a bit of the Ministry fight, are the only cues I really noticed in a positive way in the film.

[John Crichton 4]

I still haven't gotten the CD (I will, though), but after finally seeing the movie it gets a solid B.

John- who very much enjoyed the cue for the Order's flight in the film

[Elmo Lewis 6]

It's the best score the movie could ask for.

A B sounds fine to me. Some less interesting tracks keep it short of an A.

[Datameister 2,042]

John- who very much enjoyed the cue for the Order's flight in the film

Well, there goes any respect I ever had for you.

- Datameister, on whom just about every OotP cue has grown at least a little...except that one.

[Henry B 50]

Some sequences stuck out to me as oddly scored, but not that one. What's wrong with "Flight of the Order of the Phoenix"?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Maybe people hear the drums and think MV, like they did with the opening of GoF. Which is silly.

Speaking of said cue, I can't help but think it would've been nice if Hooper had expanded on that motif a bit as a theme for the Order. The same for the D.A., and the melody as they fly to the Ministry.

Ray Barnsbury

[John Crichton 4]

Maybe people hear the drums and think MV, like they did with the opening of GoF. Which is silly.

Ray Barnsbury

Or Narnia.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I was thinking that too!

Ray Barnsbury

[Red 75]

Drums equals MV? I thought that was synths.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Apparently to some people.

Ray Barnsbury

[Joe Brausam 214]

Maybe people hear the drums and think MV, like they did with the opening of GoF. Which is silly.

Speaking of said cue, I can't help but think it would've been nice if Hooper had expanded on that motif a bit as a theme for the Order. The same for the D.A., and the melody as they fly to the Ministry.

Ray Barnsbury

The score for the flight to the ministry is great, to me. Its a fun cue that I think really captures the moment, it has a playful urgency to it, but mostly feels really noble, I like it.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I do really like it as a standalone piece. I meant to say that it would've been interesting to hear that theme fleshed out into the rest of the score.

Ray Barnsbury

[Joe Brausam 214]

I know, and I agree, it really is a nice melody that could have used fleshing out into other parts of the score.

[Datameister 2,042]

What's wrong with "Flight of the Order of the Phoenix"?

I haven't listened to it on its own on the album, which I do not own, but I paid close attention to it both times I saw the film, and it just felt...weird. I felt like the snare drum was mixed too loudly--and I'm a percussionist!--especially considering how simplistic and relatively unimportant the snare drum part was. What the rest of the orchestra played felt trite, unrelated to the visuals, and...well, as I said, weird. Anyway, if you enjoy the cue, I'm happy for you. I just can't relate.

Maybe people hear the drums and think MV, like they did with the opening of GoF. Which is silly.

That would be silly. I don't mind the drums...as long as they're mixed properly, which they were not in that scene, IMO.

Drums equals MV? I thought that was synths.

Nope, neither. Both are common in MV (RCP?) scores, but they're not what makes MV music MV music. That has to do with the composition itself.

- Datameister, who really liked the drums at the beginning of GoF

[Richard Penna 3,686]

I don't believe this has been posted anywhere, but I was searching around randomly for stuff about Hooper and I found the following page:

http://www.spell-cast.com/index.php?post_id=238138

Contains a link to a podcast, which contains amongst other things a very good, 10 minute interview with Hooper. He talks about a lot of stuff including how he writes, comes up with themes, and he also gets a chance to refute those who have criticised the score

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

finally listened to the cd (havent seen the film) and i'm pretty unimpressed.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

I'll say this: see the film and listen to the above link. You may change your mind.

I'm liking this score more every time I hear it, even if it doesn't quite have the potential to reach full height with me.

[robthehand 3]

Having seen the film again, I'll say this: I think it's a competent, functional score, never less than competent, but rarely more than that. They could have picked far worse than Hooper, but needless to say they could have picked better, too.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

this score has grown on me, far better than the shit Doyle crapped on Goblet of fire

[John Crichton 4]

Having seen the film again, I'll say this: I think it's a competent, functional score, never less than competent, but rarely more than that. They could have picked far worse than Hooper, but needless to say they could have picked better, too.

Yes, competent is the word I'm thinking of too, certainly nothing spectacular but it gets the job done.

[Ollie 1,059]

I give it a B. I doubt I'll ever see the film but on it's own I give it a B.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

It does work very well in the film, but I agree with you guys - it's competent but never ascends to any level where people walk out of the cinema humming themes. Even with its improvements, to me it just feels like a really, really good TV score.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Well as I said at the opening of the thread, hopefully being a "newcomer" per se, will give Nicholas Hooper the incentive to listen to critcism and to give us something even more satisfying next time.

[MSM 126]

Music as such is mediocre, almost themeless but listenable. But in the movie it was terrible. It didn't express the onscreen emotions or made the movie better in any way. At least Patrick Doyle's score for GoF suited the scenes (e.g. the graveyard scene), although the music was not that memorable. But Doyle's score was functional. In OotP the music is often misplaced and even annoying at times (Umbridge's theme). The orchestrations are to thin to be hearable above action scenes and too overblown in other places. The scene transitions are badly scored. I was open minded and I enjoy the cd to some extent but I cannot see how you guys think it worked well in the film. I am convinced that it is this television-series-quality-soundtrack that made the movie feel flat and dreadful. David Yates shouldn't be allowed to choose his own composer. Some composers are just not well known for a reason. IMO. I give it a C, because I think Hooper gave his best.

[David Vincent 8]

D-, because I find it is better than Patrick Doyle.

[Henry B 50]

Music as such is mediocre, almost themeless but listenable. But in the movie it was terrible. It didn't express the onscreen emotions or made the movie better in any way. At least Patrick Doyle's score for GoF suited the scenes (e.g. the graveyard scene), although the music was not that memorable. But Doyle's score was functional. In OotP the music is often misplaced and even annoying at times (Umbridge's theme). The orchestrations are to thin to be hearable above action scenes and too overblown in other places. The scene transitions are badly scored. I was open minded and I enjoy the cd to some extent but I cannot see how you guys think it worked well in the film. I am convinced that it is this television-series-quality-soundtrack that made the movie feel flat and dreadful. David Yates shouldn't be allowed to choose his own composer. Some composers are just not well known for a reason. IMO. I give it a C, because I think Hooper gave his best.

Very well put. I'm not sure if I agree, but these same sentiments kept tugging at me as I watched the film. Cues like "The Sacking of Trelawney" and "Possession" were especially causative of said sentiments for me. Yet... on CD, the music works very well, and is epic and enjoyable. Also, Yates pretty much aced the film - it was only let down by the new screenwriter Rosenberg and, arguably, the composer. I wonder why Yates was so adamant to have Hooper hired... or why he's worked with nobody but Hooper for all his years in television (given that Phoenix is his film debut, Yates must have been doing rather good work).

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

In OotP the music is often misplaced and even annoying at times (Umbridge's theme).

That piece in particular, I felt, was a perfect marriage of visuals and music (the montage of her "takeover"). Though there are many greats tracks and moments on the album, there are also absolutely dead parts I always skip over, including the the two mentioned by Mr. Buck.

Ray Barnsbury

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Well as I said at the opening of the thread, hopefully being a "newcomer" per se, will give Nicholas Hooper the incentive to listen to critcism and to give us something even more satisfying next time.

Not sure about him listening to criticisms. There are obviously mixed opinions around here about how well the score worked in the film, but in the podcast, the interviewer mentions that a friend didn't like the score much, and Hooper responds fairly defensively and maintains that he thought he did a good job. Not at all arrogant, just proud of what he achieved.

[John Crichton 4]

I don't get this generic trashing of TV scores. There's some very good ones out there, you know. I rather have a good TV score than a crappy film score.

[Panthera 0]

I enjoy the music to the 5th film. It isn't my favorite or least favorite of the 5. I loved Doyle's music and would have been happy if he came back, but Hooper has nice music too.

[Simon R. 10]

I gave it a C. When I watched the movie I was so underwhelmed by the score, until maybe the last 45 minutes of the film - here Hooper showed some good composing. For the most part though, the arrangements and orchestrations seemed unfinished to me, and some compositions so simple it's embarrassing having them for such an A movie... Don't get me wrong, if simple works, it's fine, but it just sounded amateurish like he didn't fully understand how to write for an orchestra in many parts of the score.

Doyle's score was much better, although even that one was lacking in comparison to Williams' work as well. Also, the thematic material in this one is almost nonexistant. The best few thematic moments in the score are when Hooper plays a little bit of Hedwigs theme and that's a bit sad. Of course it didn't help that the movie is one of the weakest in the series - perhaps THE weakest. That said, there were fine moments in the score, especially in the last parts of the movie.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

In OotP the music is often misplaced and even annoying at times (Umbridge's theme).

That piece in particular, I felt, was a perfect marriage of visuals and music (the montage of her "takeover"). Though there are many greats tracks and moments on the album, there are also absolutely dead parts I always skip over, including the the two mentioned by Mr. Buck.

Ray Barnsbury

Really? You don't listen to "Possession"? I greatly enjoy it, mainly after seeing the film and how it works on-screen. A great build-up and climax without being overbearing in orchestration.

Though it does make me want to put on Williams' "Reaching the Country" from WotW straight afterwards...

[King Mark 3,631]

Though it does make me want to put on Williams' "Reaching the Country" from WotW straight afterwards...

It urges you to put on a decent track.

OotP is close to "delete to make more room on my hard drive"

K.m.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Actually I was going more towards a similar chord progression, only the WotW cue goes on to have that awesome brass climax as the Tripod emerges over the hilltop.

OotP is probably the main thing I'm listening to on my iPod at the moment, along with Secret Weapons Over Normandy which i only recently got.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Really? You don't listen to "Possession"? I greatly enjoy it, mainly after seeing the film and how it works on-screen. A great build-up and climax without being overbearing in orchestration.

I actually do like how it worked in the film, I just need to give it a more careful listen on album. Recently, I've been tending to just skip to the "bigger" highlights.

Ray Barnsbury

[MSM 126]

Though it does make me want to put on Williams' "Reaching the Country" from WotW straight afterwards...

It urges you to put on a decent track.

OotP is close to "delete to make more room on my hard drive"

K.m.

But seriously, there are relatively low-profile composers out there who would make for a more interesting HP score. I think of Edward Shearmur, Michael Convertino or Brian Tyler.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

After watching three seasons of the new Doctor Who, I say bring Murray Gold in. He's more than capable of handling a full-scale orchestra well - though it can get quite overblown at times. His quiter bits are gorgeous though, like the beautiful new theme for the Doctor/Martha in Season 3 (not sure who it's attributed to most).

At the very least, he's a capable British composer.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

At the very least, he's a capable British composer.

Do you think that's an important distinction for a Harry Potter composer to have?

Ray Barnsbury