Forword To Time Past

[Josh500 1,615]

The name is possibly a play on the title Back to the Future, only reversed.

I read this in a Wikipedia article, and I almost slapped myself on the forehead (figuratively, that is). Why didn't I realize that before? This is an homage to Alan Silvestri's brilliant score to Back to the Future! What do you guys think of this cue? I love the first part, but then it kinda fizzles out, I think . . .

I have always adored the passage right after this cue, the one that's not on the CD--it's between Forward to Time Past and the second half of Saving Buckbeak . . . the music that's playing when Hermione says "Is that really what my hair looks from behind?" I think the entire scene rocks . . . because of the music! I get goosebumbs listening to it in the movie . . . but unfortunately, unless we get a Complete Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban, we won't be hearing it anywhere else!

[Maglorfin 196]

The name is possibly a play on the title Back to the Future, only reversed.

I read this in a Wikipedia article, and I almost slapped myself on the forehead (figuratively, that is). Why didn't I realize that before? This is an homage to Alan Silvestri's brilliant score to Back to the Future!

Hm, quite possible, but why would Williams want to pay a tribute to that particular composer and/or score?

Otherwise, it's a fine cue.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Williams doesn't come up with his track titles. And I think it's just a poetic play of words, since 'forward to the past' is a contradiction in terms that's justified by the action in the movie.

[ChuckM 1]

I've always thought it may be a subtle hint to Back to the Future. Especially since the movie's plot revolves around time-travel. It even starts out with clocks ticking, which makes it sound a little like the beginning of BTTF.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Williams doesn't come up with his track titles.

Eh? I always just sort of assumed he did...

And I think it's just a poetic play of words, since 'forward to the past' is a contradiction in terms that's justified by the action in the movie.

Yes. I'm sure it has nothing to do with BttF...that would a really random reference (and JW probably doesn't even know who Silvestri is).

Ray Barnsbury

[fommes 153]

I'm also quite sure the track titler did not have BttF in mind.

[Morlock 11]

Yes, it would be very uncharactaristic of Williams to be aware of Hollywood film music of the last few of decades. I was shocked when he included Titanic in his medley at the Oscars. Last new composer I heard he was aware of was Bruce Broughton. Never, ever heard him mentioning Horner, Elfman, Zimmer or Howard. He might have mentioned Thomas Newman once, though I'm not sure (I know that several other silver age composers were big T Newman fans).

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Williams doesn't come up with his track titles.

But he does at least the funny Cuesheets ones.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Yes, it would be very uncharactaristic of Williams to be aware of Hollywood film music of the last few of decades. I was shocked when he included Titanic in his medley at the Oscars. Last new composer I heard he was aware of was Bruce Broughton. Never, ever heard him mentioning Horner, Elfman, Zimmer or Howard. He might have mentioned Thomas Newman once, though I'm not sure (I know that several other silver age composers were big T Newman fans).

In an interview of some years ago, I remember he mentioned James Horner, Tom Newman and George Fenton above some of his favourites of the younger generation. In antoher interview, he also said that he and Steven Spielberg usually talk about contemporary film music.

However, I'm pretty sure Williams is well aware of the contemporary Hollywood film music scene. He probably doesn't want to endorse anyone in particular in public, given his private and modest behaviour, but surely he knows who does what and who is better than others

[Morlock 11]

Missed that mention of those newer folk. Live and learn

[Maglorfin 196]

Yes, it would be very uncharactaristic of Williams to be aware of Hollywood film music of the last few of decades. I was shocked when he included Titanic in his medley at the Oscars. Last new composer I heard he was aware of was Bruce Broughton. Never, ever heard him mentioning Horner, Elfman, Zimmer or Howard. He might have mentioned Thomas Newman once, though I'm not sure (I know that several other silver age composers were big T Newman fans).

In an interview of some years ago, I remember he mentioned James Horner, Tom Newman and George Fenton above some of his favourites of the younger generation. In antoher interview, he also said that he and Steven Spielberg usually talk about contemporary film music.

Hm, sounds interesting, do you maybe remember what interview that was?

However, I'm pretty sure Williams is well aware of the contemporary Hollywood film music scene. He probably doesn't want to endorse anyone in particular in public, given his private and modest behaviour, but surely he knows who does what and who is better than others

My opinion exactly.

[Morlock 11]

I don't know, he still doesn't strike me as being in the loop. Although he did use a moaning woman, drum loops and ethnic insturments on Munich.......

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

While I'm sure Williams probably does not go out to buy the new JNH score, I'm sure that he has a general idea what going on in film music land these days.

[Ollie 1,059]

I don't know, he still doesn't strike me as being in the loop. Although he did use a moaning woman, drum loops and ethnic insturments on Munich.......

It's called giving in to the director's temp track wishes.

[Morlock 11]

Not necasserily.

[JWfangirl1992 18]

Williams doesn't come up with his track titles.

Are you serious? I always thought he had a clever sense of humor when it came to most track titles and it has all been a lie...

[Datameister 2,037]

Cue titles are his, naturally. Track titles...I dunno, has there ever been a definitive word on that?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The movie is awesome from the moment they enter the Shrieking Shack. It got even better when they had to leave Ron behind, he gets on my nerves.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

It's pretty much awesome from the moment we hear "Harry. Harry! HARRY! Open - the door!"

Ray Barnsbury

[King Mark 3,625]

Yes. I'm sure it has nothing to do with BttF...that would a really random reference (and JW probably doesn't even know who Silvestri is).

Ray Barnsbury

exactly

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Cue titles are his, naturally. Track titles...I dunno, has there ever been a definitive word on that?

Actually, Hans Zimmer described the process when I interviewed him in Madrid last year - the record company usually approaches the composer (in some cases, well before the score is finished), and asks for track titles so they can start designing the artwork. Given Zimmer's approach to scoring (which isn't as organised as others'), he tries to be as vague as possible because he simply doesn't know what music is going to be good enough to be on the album. Which explains Batman Begins and The DaVinci Code (he actually joked about those track titles in the interview). The next part of the process is filling the tracks with the score and film's highlights, which may partially explain why some scores have several cues pasted into one single track.

In Williams case, though (and I confess I can't remember my source for this), he is more organised and experienced in film scoring, so he could afford to be more precise in the track titles - he probably has the score's structure in his mind when he's writing the music - but he, like many others in Hollywood, usually leaves that to his assistant, or to the record company. I'm a little blurry on the reasons for this: it could very likely be that only a few composers care about the final album, it could be that the companies want to ensure more commercial and catchy track titles, or it could that that's the album producer's job.

Oh, and just don't trust the 'album produced by John Williams' credit in his albums. It simlpy means he just gave out the dough and forgot about everything else.

[Josh500 1,615]

Williams doesn't come up with his track titles.

Eh? I always just sort of assumed he did...

And I think it's just a poetic play of words, since 'forward to the past' is a contradiction in terms that's justified by the action in the movie.

Yes. I'm sure it has nothing to do with BttF...that would a really random reference (and JW probably doesn't even know who Silvestri is).

Ray Barnsbury

Are you guys serious? OF COURSE the title "Forward to Time Past" is an allusion to BttF!!! What else should it be? Now, I've always assumed that JW did come up with the track names . . . who else would do it, anyway? Kenny Wannberg? No, I think JW names the tracks . . . he is credited producer of his albums, after all.

[Maglorfin 196]

No, I think JW names the tracks . . . he is credited producer of his albums, after all.

So you don't believe Ender?

Oh, and just don't trust the 'album produced by John Williams' credit in his albums. It simlpy means he just gave out the dough and forgot about everything else.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hmmmm . . . honestly, I don't! Sounds to me like a load of half-truths! Not that I'm accusing Ender of lying, it's just that I find it hard to take anything that Hans Zimmer says seriously.

[Morlock 11]

That's why you are you, and Ender is Ender. He is enlightened.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Are you guys serious? OF COURSE the title "Forward to Time Past" is an allusion to BttF!!! What else should it be? Now, I've always assumed that JW did come up with the track names . . . who else would do it, anyway? Kenny Wannberg? No, I think JW names the tracks . . . he is credited producer of his albums, after all.

Why are you so convinced? What possible reason would there be for Williams to enigmatically reference an 80's adventure score in the track title of a 2004 fantasy film, neither of which has anything to do with the other (besides the very common idea of time travel)? The music has no similarities to Silvestri's theme or score, and the titles doesn't even line up; "forward" is the opposite of "back," and the same goes for "time past" and "future." You ask "what else should it be"? Umm, it should be a creative name that reflects the scene it underscores. Which it is. Let go of shift+1 for a minute, take a breath, and move on!

Ray Barnsbury

[Ollie 1,059]

It's just a cue to POA and nothing else.

[Josh500 1,615]

Are you guys serious? OF COURSE the title "Forward to Time Past" is an allusion to BttF!!! What else should it be? Now, I've always assumed that JW did come up with the track names . . . who else would do it, anyway? Kenny Wannberg? No, I think JW names the tracks . . . he is credited producer of his albums, after all.

Why are you so convinced? What possible reason would there be for Williams to enigmatically reference an 80's adventure score in the track title of a 2004 fantasy film, neither of which has anything to do with the other (besides the very common idea of time travel)? The music has no similarities to Silvestri's theme or score, and the titles doesn't even line up; "forward" is the opposite of "back," and the same goes for "time past" and "future." You ask "what else should it be"? Umm, it should be a creative name that reflects the scene it underscores. Which it is. Let go of shift+1 for a minute, take a breath, and move on!

Ray Barnsbury

Of course I can't be 100% sure, but it's very very likely that it is. Did you read the first post at all? It said, "The name is possibly a play on the title Back to the Future, ONLY REVERSED." Of course, this cue is not gonna be named Back to the Future--that would be a dead giveaway! (Besides, it wouldn't fit.) So he just reversed it! Why am I so sure? Why would JW name it "Forward to Time Past" if it's not a reference to BttF? The phrase FtTP doesn't come up in the movie OR in the book . . .

You say the 2 movies have nothing to do with each other, but you are wrong! There are 2 connections:

1. Both movies deal with time travel--and they are probably THE 2 most successful movies dealing with it, at that.

2. Steven Spielberg was producer of BttF--and before you say PoA has nothing to do with Spielberg, I'm just saying that JW has!

Why are YOU denying this so vehemently, I wonder.

[robthehand 3]

If JW names his own CD tracks, why do the cues on the scoring logs often have different titles to the ones on the albums?

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Are you guys serious? OF COURSE the title "Forward to Time Past" is an allusion to BttF!!! What else should it be? Now, I've always assumed that JW did come up with the track names . . . who else would do it, anyway? Kenny Wannberg? No, I think JW names the tracks . . . he is credited producer of his albums, after all.

Why are you so convinced? What possible reason would there be for Williams to enigmatically reference an 80's adventure score in the track title of a 2004 fantasy film, neither of which has anything to do with the other (besides the very common idea of time travel)? The music has no similarities to Silvestri's theme or score, and the titles doesn't even line up; "forward" is the opposite of "back," and the same goes for "time past" and "future." You ask "what else should it be"? Umm, it should be a creative name that reflects the scene it underscores. Which it is. Let go of shift+1 for a minute, take a breath, and move on!

Ray Barnsbury

Of course I can't be 100% sure, but it's very very likely that it is. Did you read the first post at all? It said, "The name is possibly a play on the title Back to the Future, ONLY REVERSED." Of course, this cue is not gonna be named Back to the Future--that would be a dead giveaway! (Besides, it wouldn't fit.) So he just reversed it! Why am I so sure? Why would JW name it "Forward to Time Past" if it's not a reference to BttF? The phrase FtTP doesn't come up in the movie OR in the book . . .

You say the 2 movies have nothing to do with each other, but you are wrong! There are 2 connections:

1. Both movies deal with time travel--and they are probably THE 2 most successful movies dealing with it, at that.

2. Steven Spielberg was producer of BttF--and before you say PoA has nothing to do with Spielberg, I'm just saying that JW has!

Why are YOU denying this so vehemently, I wonder.

Even taking all that into account, that's a very unlikely connection. And those are pretty much the two flimsiest connections one could make in this context.

[Morlock 11]

Indeed. And the title doesn't bring BTTF to mind at all.

[Josh500 1,615]

I'm just wondering . . . what drugs are you guys on?

They don't HAVE to have a connection except for the ones I mentioned, don't you get that? It's not like JW dedicated the whole score to AS! It's just a slight reference, that's all, a nod to the previous most successful movie about time travel! Why is that so hard to swallow?

[robthehand 3]

They don't HAVE to have a connection except for the ones I mentioned, don't you get that?

If it was intended as a reference, your connections make sense, but they're hardly enough to prove anything. It could just as easily be a co-incidence.

[Josh500 1,615]

If it wasn't a reference to BttF, what kind of title is that, anyway? I mean, "Forward to Time Past"? COME ON!!!

[Admiral Holdo 16]

It's like saying the name Red Buttons is a tribute to Edgar Allen Poe because he wrote 'The Mask of the Red Death.'

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, I don't really care what you guys believe, I just wanted to throw it out there. But I am convinced--whether consciously or unconsciously I don't know--that JW (or his assistant, according to HZ) named the track Forward to Time Past with Back to the Future in mind . . .

[fommes 153]

"The question is: who cares?"

[Josh500 1,615]

"The question is: who cares?"

The answer is you obviously don't, so get the hell outta here!

[Joe Brausam 214]

If it wasn't a reference to BttF, what kind of title is that, anyway? I mean, "Forward to Time Past"? COME ON!!!

The story is moving forward to a time that has already past.

[Josh500 1,615]

If it wasn't a reference to BttF, what kind of title is that, anyway? I mean, "Forward to Time Past"? COME ON!!!

The story is moving forward to a time that has already past.

That should actually be, "The story is moving forward to a time that has already passed."

[Admiral Holdo 16]

If it wasn't a reference to BttF, what kind of title is that, anyway? I mean, "Forward to Time Past"? COME ON!!!

The story is moving forward to a time that has already past.

That should actually be, "The story is moving forward to a time that has already passed."

Wow, what a Grammar Nazi.

[Joe Brausam 214]

Technicaly yes, but then what I said wouldn't fit with the track title would it?

"The story is moving forward to a time that has already past."

[Josh500 1,615]

Technically, it's "technically"! Haha, I'm just kidding . . .

[Joe Brausam 214]

I'm no English major.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

After careful analysis of several John Williams albums, I have changed my opinion and am in complete agreement with Josh. In fact, it seems that there is a rich history of brilliant allusionism throughout Williams' body of work!!! Some examples I've come across:

From Amistad, "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" is clearly a nod to Spielberg's stirring African American film The Color Purple, and expresses Williams' disappointment with not having been asked to score it

From the same score, "Crossing the Atlantic" slyly tips its hat to another big film of that year, Titanic, in an extension of good will toward Horner

"The Early Days, Massapequa" from Bot4J is a clever parallel to the title of The Land Before Time (Spielberg produced this, so the connection is unrefutable!)

Catch Me if You Can's "Doctor, Lawyer, Lutheran" is a bravely satirical social commentary on the perceived importance and superiority of upper-middle class, white Protestantism in our nation.

"The Ferry Scene" from War of the Worlds is a wonderful inside joke for fans who are familiar with Williams' love of Showboat and other classic Broadway musicals

In The Lost World, Williams gives a moving nod to famed trumpet player and longtime friend Malcolm McNab with the track "Malcolm's Journey"

And The Terminal's "A Legend is Born" hints at the symbolism of Viktor as a Christ figure, and is a powerful tribute to the Christian idea of the immaculate conception

I can't wait to find more of these awesome testaments to Williams' enudring wit and intellect!!!!!!!

Ray Barnsbury

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Of course I can't be 100% sure, but it's very very likely that it is. Did you read the first post at all? It said, "The name is possibly a play on the title Back to the Future, ONLY REVERSED." Of course, this cue is not gonna be named Back to the Future--that would be a dead giveaway! (Besides, it wouldn't fit.) So he just reversed it! Why am I so sure? Why would JW name it "Forward to Time Past" if it's not a reference to BttF? The phrase FtTP doesn't come up in the movie OR in the book . . .

You say the 2 movies have nothing to do with each other, but you are wrong! There are 2 connections:

1. Both movies deal with time travel--and they are probably THE 2 most successful movies dealing with it, at that.

2. Steven Spielberg was producer of BttF--and before you say PoA has nothing to do with Spielberg, I'm just saying that JW has!

Why are YOU denying this so vehemently, I wonder.

Okay, I'm going to use this as proof that we need an age restriction for people who wish to post here.

[Josh500 1,615]

Now, look who's coming around . . . !

P.S. You're taking this too seriously. You're acting like my initial post was a terrible affront to you personally!

Of course I can't be 100% sure, but it's very very likely that it is. Did you read the first post at all? It said, "The name is possibly a play on the title Back to the Future, ONLY REVERSED." Of course, this cue is not gonna be named Back to the Future--that would be a dead giveaway! (Besides, it wouldn't fit.) So he just reversed it! Why am I so sure? Why would JW name it "Forward to Time Past" if it's not a reference to BttF? The phrase FtTP doesn't come up in the movie OR in the book . . .

You say the 2 movies have nothing to do with each other, but you are wrong! There are 2 connections:

1. Both movies deal with time travel--and they are probably THE 2 most successful movies dealing with it, at that.

2. Steven Spielberg was producer of BttF--and before you say PoA has nothing to do with Spielberg, I'm just saying that JW has!

Why are YOU denying this so vehemently, I wonder.

Okay, I'm going to use this as proof that we need an age restriction for people who wish to post here.

Yeah, so get the hell outta here!

[Morlock 11]

Great post, Ray. Real eye-opener.

[fommes 153]

After careful analysis of several John Williams albums, I have changed my opinion and am in complete agreement with Josh. In fact, it seems that there is a rich history of brilliant allusionism throughout Williams' body of work!!! Some examples I've come across:

From Amistad, "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" is clearly a nod to Spielberg's stirring African American film The Color Purple, and expresses Williams' disappointment with not having been asked to score it

From the same score, "Crossing the Atlantic" slyly tips its hat to another big film of that year, Titanic, in an extension of good will toward Horner

"The Early Days, Massapequa" from Bot4J is a clever parallel to the title of The Land Before Time (Spielberg produced this, so the connection is unrefutable!)

Catch Me if You Can's "Doctor, Lawyer, Lutheran" is a bravely satirical social commentary on the perceived importance and superiority of upper-middle class, white Protestantism in our nation.

"The Ferry Scene" from War of the Worlds is a wonderful inside joke for fans who are familiar with Williams' love of Showboat and other classic Broadway musicals

In The Lost World, Williams gives a moving nod to famed trumpet player and longtime friend Malcolm McNab with the track "Malcolm's Journey"

And The Terminal's "A Legend is Born" hints at the symbolism of Viktor as a Christ figure, and is a powerful tribute to the Christian idea of the immaculate conception

I can't wait to find more of these awesome testaments to Williams' enudring wit and intellect!!!!!!!

Ray Barnsbury

[Red 75]

Hmmm.

If anything, "Forward to Time Past" is reminiscent of "The Museum" from Hook. Both deal with a time motif.