What exactly did William Ross do in Harry Potter the Chamber of Secrets

[loveydovey 0]

Hi everyone. I'd like to ask what exactly did William Ross do in Harry Potter the Chamber of Secrets soundtrack? It says he "adapted" John Williams' score but I don't understand what "adapting" entails exactly.

According to the Wikipedia entry:

"Because of scheduling commitments Williams was concerned he would not be able to deliver the complete score.He therefore asked composer William Ross to finish the score, if need be, adapting Williams' themes. Ultimately Williams composed most (if not all) of the score, though Ross conducted the scoring session and retained "adaptation" credit."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_...28soundtrack%29

Basically my question is: What is adapting?

Thank you!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

He was tasked with utilizing themes from Sorcerer's Stone and new themes Williams wrote for Chamber and adapting and arranging them to fit the scenes in Chamber of Secrets.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Oh no, I hate this topic. It's had the tendency to gety nasty lately.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Thanks for that succinct explanation, Blumenkohl...I don't think I have the strength anymore.

Ray Barnsbury - who wonders what's so hard about using the forum's "Search" function

[King Mark 3,625]

There's 2 camps

1)Those that think Williams wrote 40 minutes of music only and William Ross magically composed the rest of the score mimicking Williams style EXACTLY

2)Those that think Williams ended up writing most ,if not the entire score,but for professionnal reasons Ross adapting credit was kept

[loveydovey 0]

Thanks for that succinct explanation, Blumenkohl...I don't think I have the strength anymore.

Ray Barnsbury - who wonders what's so hard about using the forum's "Search" function

I most certainly used the search engine before inquiring. Although the search engine spit out no results for me--at least not with the keywords I used.

Thank you to everyone else who replied without the snark.

Can anyone explain what "adapting" means though? I had been under the assumption it meant something similar to arranging.

[King Mark 3,625]

Usually this discussion pops up inside another unrelated topic .I can't remember where we last discussed it but it was last week

[Trent B 337]

Blumenkohl practically explained it the best way possible.

Another example is when Don Davis adapted Williams original Jurassic Park themes for Jurassic Park III's score.

[King Mark 3,625]

That is not at all the same thing.JP3 is a Don Davis score and CoS is a John Williams score

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Another example is when Don Davis adapted Williams original Jurassic Park themes for Jurassic Park III's score.

No, this has nothing to do with that. Williams wrote nothing new for Jurassic Park III, so it's easy to spot what's his and what isn't based on the previous scores.

Fact is Williams wrote something for Chamber of Secrets -- just how much we can't decide. Despite the logical, likely and proven route of the 40 minutes theory (which leaves the rest to Ross), of course.

[Trent B 337]

Um, Ender re-read my post I said ORIGINAL Jurassic Park themes, basically the ones from the first movie. I know that Williams didn't write anything for JP III and most everyone knows that.

[Henry B 50]

I think Vosk meant that Jurassic Park III is an example of another person doing an excellent imitation of Williams.

If you think it's excellent, that is.

[King Mark 3,625]

Then don't compare it to CoS

JP3 can be compared to Superman 2 and 3 or Jaws 3 and 4

And even Don Davis "excellent" imitation doesn't sound like real Williams composed cues,which some people think the genius William Ross can do

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Conclusion:

I know that Williams didn't write anything for JP III and most everyone knows that.

Then don't compare it to CoS

Also...

And even Don Davis "excellent" imitation doesn't sound like real Williams composed cues,which some people think the genius William Ross can do

I don't think there's anything genius in the music we attribute to Ross.

We're gonna be stuck on this for years to come, aren't we?

[Hitch 57]

If it don't gel, it ain't Jello.

[Trent B 337]

I think Vosk meant that Jurassic Park III is an example of another person doing an excellent imitation of Williams.

If you think it's excellent, that is.

Thank you Henry, that's what I was trying to say. I for one do think it's an excellent imitation of Williams original music. For those of you who don't think so then, bleh.

[Datameister 2,037]

I'll consider myself blehed.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Well if you read this thread i started ages ago on this topic, you'd find that a member (Hellgi) who works for William Ross says that Ross composed most of the score

[crumbs 14,301]

Wasn't it rumoured John Williams conducted the Spinosaurus attack on the river? Not wrote, just guest conducted as a friendly gesture?

[Ollie 1,059]

No.

Anyhoo, Blumenkohl said it best. Anything else is pure speculation with no facts to back up it up.

[gkgyver 1,645]

We really need a sticky thread with a Faux Pas list ...

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

KingMark,

Don Davis and William Ross and people of the likes have made careers out of mimicking great composers styles. They are professional arrangers and orchestrators, their craft is the flawless duplication of their employers stylistic nuances and musical flavors. These are like the lower chefs working under a head chef to bring his recipe into fruition, and they know the style of the head chef as a part of their job.

To think that just because it sounds like Williams it must be Williams is a bit crazy. By the same token then I used to have a clock that chimed like a chickadee every hour, so therefore it must have been a chickadee.

Oh and this thread qualifies as a A HORNER POST

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I most certainly used the search engine before inquiring. Although the search engine spit out no results for me--at least not with the keywords I used.

Thank you to everyone else who replied without the snark.

Well, we just finished yet another discussion on it here, which turned up within the first few search results. That's all.

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...0&start=240

Ray Barnsbury

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

As of now, i dont know who to believe regarding this score...

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

You can

A) Believe the facts

B) KM's gut feelings

That's all there's to it, pick one.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Well if you read this thread i started ages ago on this topic, you'd find that a member (Hellgi) who works for William Ross says that Ross composed most of the score

Didn't the outcome of that thread end up that "wrote" was not really the same thing as "composed"?

Basically, Blumenkohl already said it best.

And yes, this is a Horner thread.

[John Crichton 4]

I most certainly used the search engine before inquiring. Although the search engine spit out no results for me--at least not with the keywords I used.

Thank you to everyone else who replied without the snark.

Well, we just finished yet another discussion on it here, which turned up within the first few search results. That's all.

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...0&start=240

Ray Barnsbury

If there's one thing Mr. Barnsbury does not do is snark. A little legwork could have avoided yet another circular "discussion" with the same lack of facts we've been having for years.

Personally I don't see why it's so hard to believe what we've officially been told. I don't think that Ross actually wrote any cues, but I'm certainly willing to give him credit for the duller bits (like Hagrid getting arrested) if some hard evidence comes along that he did more than adapt and conduct.

John- breaking his "no posting on vaction" rule to get his 2 cents in

[HPFAN_2 0]

Wow the guy joined today and asked a simple question, yeah the topic is old but HE JUST JOINED THE FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways welcome Loveydovey, I hope you are able to get your question answered politely.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

What i m thinking now is:

a) Williams wrote all, the full 40 mins of thematic material plus sketches of the rest of the score with rough screen times (made in a rush after CMIYC because the producers didnt like Ross' original music). Ross worked in the orchestrations with Pope and the others, and adapted all that music to fit the scenes and made any changes neccesary during recording sessions with the actual finished footage.

b)Williams just wrote the new themes (concert like versions) and Ross wrote the complete score, using always Williams material from PS with new Williams themes with the help of Williams' orchestrators. And help from the London Symphony performance. Like Superman II, Williams still composed the whole music.

With b, though, i dont know why Williams would wrote unthematic action cues like the Flying car or the Spiders. If he was only doing the themes. Unless the themes were 20 minutes and the other 20 were the action cues because the producers didnt like what Ross made with the pre-existing Williams cues.

Unless mattesino or Kendall or the others do a complete score of this with liner notes we will never know for sure...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I think option a) is the right one.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

You know that was my translation of KM's gut feelings...

[King Mark 3,625]

Well if you read this thread i started ages ago on this topic, you'd find that a member (Hellgi) who works for William Ross says that Ross composed most of the score

Helgii hasn't earned any credibility here.If he really works for Williams Ross he sounds like someone convering up his boss' ass

[Salacius 7]

I found it very easy hearing the music that was written based on previews ques and new music by Williams. It's like night and day. Dunno what is this debate all about. Most music is Williams'. It's obvious. And BTW well done to the recording engineer. It was first time in years I heard the classic JW sound. Same goes for the orchestrations. Stunning!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I found it very easy hearing the music that was written based on previews ques and new music by Williams. It's like night and day. Dunno what is this debate all about. Most music is Williams'.

Could you please jot down a list of the music you think is absolutely by Williams, and the music that you think isn't?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Helgii hasn't earned any credibility here.If he really works for Williams Ross he sounds like someone convering up his boss' ass

Good God, that's paranoid. It's a Harry Potter sequel score, not Watergate.

Why do you want so badly to believe that everybody lies, instead of being happy that someone can recreate Williams' style? Is it so blasphemous to believe that a skilled orchestrator can write similar to the Maestro, albeit with much less imagination and flair? I know a lot of underscore truly is Williams ("The Flying Car", "Duelling the Basilisk", "Spiders" off the top of my head) but I really wish to God Williams isn't responsible for a lot of other tracks in the CD. And yes, there is unreleased Williams music in the film, too (hence the AOTC music in the Quidditch match).

Personally, it makes more sense that it wasn't the producers rejecting Ross' score as much as them trying to get as much new Williams as they could get because, well, the guy means money. Hence his prominent credit on the CD and film. But that's just semantics.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Here's what I think is a plausible explanation. Williams undoubtedly composed the four major new themes for CoS (Fawkes, Chamber, Lockhart, Dobby). These four concert arrangements come to about 13 minutes. Throw in the smaller new motifs (Myrtle, Spiders) and the larger setpiece cues ("The Flying Car," "The Dueling Club," "The Spiders," "Dueling the Basilisk," "Fawkes is Reborn"), and you have about 36 minutes. Nearly all the remaining cues on the album are adaptations of themes from the first score, sometimes in the exact same arrangement, so it would seem safe to assume that Ross had a hand in these. With the 4 minutes leftover of Williams' supposed 40 minutes of new material (which realistically could have ended up been more, as we were given this figure very early in the process), you can take into account the new ending from "Reunion of Friends," the little pieces for Errol in the film, etc. This allows for virtually all the new music to have been written by Williams, with Ross simply adapting both new and old themes into the score, and falls in line with how each composer is credited.

Ray Barnsbury

Ray Barnsbury - reiterating what basically everyone else has said

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That is a very solid explanation Ray. (once again)

I wonder what KM thinks of it.

[TownerFan 4,983]

We'll probably never know the real truth behind all this. It's a conspiracy.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It's a terrorist plot!

[TownerFan 4,983]

It's Spectre!

[loveydovey 0]

Wow the guy joined today and asked a simple question, yeah the topic is old but HE JUST JOINED THE FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways welcome Loveydovey, I hope you are able to get your question answered politely.

Thank you, HPFAN. Thank you for extending some courtesy and patience.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Well your question was politely answered in post #2 of this thread...

So please don't cry. And welcome to the board.

[King Mark 3,625]

That is a very solid explanation Ray. (once again)

I wonder what KM thinks of it.

I agree partially to it.I'll concede whenever music was tracked from HPPS as beeing Ross work,with Williams writing new extensions to some cues such as Reunion of Friends.I don't think cues like The Flying Car and Duelling the Basilisk should pose any controversy either.But I still believe it's more than 40 minutes,stating the case of the AotC derived music(Quidditch,Lucious motif),unless Ross was given the permission to fit Chase through Coruscant in there(but I don't see how he would be,beeing hired to compose music for Harry Potter and having the time to do so properly)

K.M.

[Henry B 50]

I found it very easy hearing the music that was written based on previews ques and new music by Williams. It's like night and day. Dunno what is this debate all about. Most music is Williams'. It's obvious. And BTW well done to the recording engineer. It was first time in years I heard the classic JW sound. Same goes for the orchestrations. Stunning!

It's a very good recording and performance by the London Symphony Orchestra. What's really funny about this is that it's more likely a complete Chamber of Secrets will be released than a complete Philosopher's Stone or Prisoner of Azkaban. Thanks to the London Symphony Orchestra inexplicably lending its talents to only the second score, reuse fees aren't a major problem. In fact, the first four Harry Potter game scores have already been released, and I believe some of the music on them was performed by the LSO. Also, Doyle's Goblet of Fire was done by the LSO.

[loveydovey 0]

Well your question was politely answered in post #2 of this thread...

So please don't cry. And welcome to the board.

You're presumptuous in believing Ray Barnsbury has sufficient gravitas to offend. But thank you for the disingenuous welcome.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

WOW! You weren't trained in concise language were you?

The welcome was from the heart...but I guess being too serious might keep people from recognizing that.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Not trying to offend, I just think it's amusing when the same topic is brought up time and time again. But yes, you're new, so welcome, etc.

Ray Barnsbury

[King Mark 3,625]

You're presumptuous in believing Ray Barnsbury has sufficient gravitas to offend. But thank you for the disingenuous welcome.

Welcome,you seem to fit right into the board

[Guest macrea]

What's really funny about this is that it's more likely a complete Chamber of Secrets will be released than a complete Philosopher's Stone or Prisoner of Azkaban. Thanks to the London Symphony Orchestra inexplicably lending its talents to only the second score, reuse fees aren't a major problem. In fact, the first four Harry Potter game scores have already been released, and I believe some of the music on them was performed by the LSO. Also, Doyle's Goblet of Fire was done by the LSO.

All of the Harry Potter scores were recorded in the UK. Whether they are done by an orchestra that is named or just an assembled session group, there is no reuse issue as long as the recording is made outside the U.S. with non U.S. players.

[Henry B 50]

That so? Cool; I just assumed that Williams assembled his usual L.A. session orchestra.