What exactly did William Ross do in Harry Potter the Chamber of Secrets

[Henry B 50]

At least we can all agree that this score sucks, save for some of the concert pieces and action cues.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I don't think it sucks. There's some excellent concert pieces and action cues...

[publicist 4,643]

So why this uproar about who wrote it? Would it really make the world turn back if Ross wrote a cue like this bumbling march for the Kenneth Branagh character? Maybe some of it would be actually better if they would've just let Ross do his thing, while interpolating Williams' themes instead of producing this hodgepodge.

[King Mark 3,631]

I don't think it sucks either.I'd rather have the unreleased music from CoS rather than the unreleased music from Minority Report or War of the Worlds

So why this uproar about who wrote it? Would it really make the world turn back if Ross wrote a cue like this bumbling march for the Kenneth Branagh character?

the point is the bumbling march derived from No Ticket( Last Crusade) is Williams. The bigger point beeing no composer alive can perfectly imitate Williams to the point of not beeing able to tell the 2 apart.

[Red 75]

[indy4 155]

At least we can all agree that this score sucks, save for some of the concert pieces and action cues.

No.

[Henry B 50]

Aww. I mean, in iTunes, I would rather just listen to a playlist of:

1. Fawkes the Phoenix

2. The Chamber of Secrets

3. The Flying Car

4. Dobby the House Elf

5. The Spiders

6. Moaning Myrtle

7. Dueling the Basilisk

8. Fawkes Is Reborn

That would be an awesome listening experience, actually. Top notch music, blissfully devoid of excessive repetitions of the original score's themes. Instead of hearing Hedwig's theme and Harry's Wondrous World up the butt, wouldn't it be cool for the themes to enter with style at the end of "The Flying Car" and tease you further just with cameos?

[John Crichton 4]

I wouldn't say the score sucks, but the concert pieces and action cues are definately the highlights. And on that note I have to mention, since The Flying Car and Dueling the Basilisk get all the attention, my favorite action cue is really The Spiders, particularly the last part.

EDIT- Simo-post with Henry, have to say I like that playlist. But I would add the Cakes for Crabbe and Goyle/Polyjuice Potion stuff too.

[Henry B 50]

Well, "Cakes for Crabbe and Goyle" could go before "Dueling the Basilisk" (I really like the build of the Chamber theme; sets up "Dueling the Basilisk" perfectly). Have to have some Nimbus 2000, I guess.

[John Crichton 4]

Or after Dobby. A full light comedy block in the middle before the final push to the end.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

I could never listen to this score with the superb "Reunion of Friends."

[indy4 155]

Aww. I mean, in iTunes, I would rather just listen to a playlist of:

1. Fawkes the Phoenix

2. The Chamber of Secrets

3. The Flying Car

4. Dobby the House Elf

5. The Spiders

6. Moaning Myrtle

7. Dueling the Basilisk

8. Fawkes Is Reborn

That would be an awesome listening experience, actually. Top notch music, blissfully devoid of excessive repetitions of the original score's themes. Instead of hearing Hedwig's theme and Harry's Wondrous World up the butt, wouldn't it be cool for the themes to enter with style at the end of "The Flying Car" and tease you further just with cameos?

Reunion of Friends is great stuff, too.

[Henry B 50]

It's 90% recycled from Philosopher's Stone.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Yes, but that 10% is the best part.

[Henry B 50]

It's just bombast.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well Williams doesn't do full out bombast often these days,so it's nice to hear

[indy4 155]

I consider the last bit of Reunion of Friends like the Imperial March right before the end credits of AOTC--it's using old, great themes, but to a much more dramatic and bold extent. I love those parts in scores!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

It's 90% recycled from Philosopher's Stone.

Not on the OST i think.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I consider the last bit of Reunion of Friends like the Imperial March right before the end credits of AOTC--it's using old, great themes, but to a much more dramatic and bold extent. I love those parts in scores!

And the finale obviously needed music that was "bolder" and "more dramatic" than the original. Hagrid was back from Azkaban!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I have to mention, since The Flying Car and Dueling the Basilisk get all the attention, my favorite action cue is really The Spiders, particularly the last part.

Oh, yes!

I never really got into Dueling the Basilisk as much. And The Flying Car is very nice, but I remember playing Spiders over and over again much more when I just got the album.

[John Crichton 4]

Good deal, I thought I was the only one.

I remember when the CD first came out I thought it might be the new Quidditch cue. We all know how little track titles can mean.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I like "The Spiders" pretty well too, especially starting at 3:16, leading up to that amazing, driving part at 3:30 with the tambourine offbeats. "Dueling the Basilisk" is good, but the best part is the opening with the grand, epic statement of Fawkes' theme.

Ray Barnsbury

[Hellgi 0]

Sure

I can only tell you from the CD:

1. Prologue: Book II And The Escape From The Dursley's/Ross

2. Fawkes The Phoenix/Williams

3. Chamber Of Secrets,/Williams

4. Gilderoy Lockhart /Williams

5. Flying Car /Willams

6. Knockturn Alley / Ross

7. Introducing Colin / Ross

8. Dueling Club / Willams

9. Dobby The House Elf / Willams

10. Spiders / William

11. Moaning Myrtle / Willams

12. Meeting Aragog / Willams

13. Fawkes Is Reborn / Willams

14. Meeting Tom Riddle / Ross

15. Cornish Pixies real / Ross

16. Polyjuice Potion / Ross

17. Cakes For Crabbe And Goyle/ Ross

18. Dueling The Basilisk / Williams

19. Reunion Of Friends / Ross

20. Harry's Wondrous World /well....

You're right on all of them, except for Prologue: Book II, which is John Williams (Escape from the Durlsey's is from Ross).

Oh, for those interested - I have the final, official, conductor score in front of me - you know, the complete sketches from which the orchestration was done as well as the copying by JoAnn Kane Music Service for the recording in London (they always create a couple of masters at the end of a recording project). Of course this comes with the full cue list indicating who sketched what (that's for those who can't see the difference between John's and Bill's handwriting). Anyone has questions? Time to get them answered.

F

Also, I'd like to take that opportunity to comment on KM's quote, which he so cleverly put in his signature for all to see:

*In addition to that new material, Williams took several themes and expanded them into more developed pieces for the soundtrack album. "I was stunned by the amount of music he wrote," says Ross. "We were on the 12th day of a 13-day recording schedule and I received a package with new cues to record. That night I actually called John and told him I was sending the music police to confiscate his pencil! I think he just couldn't stop writing." Ross did not compose any new material himself; everything he wrote was based on John's material. Williams insisted, though, that Ross receive a "Music Adapted by" credit onscreen. "That credit was something that John insisted on from our first meeting," says Ross. "The reality, however, is that CHAMBER OF SECRETS is a John Williams score beginning to end."

Nothing in that excerpt contradicts what I said originally. The only thing where I would ask for a mea culpa after checking the original sketches is in terms of how many minutes of music JW actually composed and how many were adapted by BR. After a quick look, it seems JW sketched about 18 cues, BR sketched about 55. I originally stated 20 minutes of music for Williams and 80 for Ross; it might be a bit more for the former and a bit less for the later. I'd have to add all the cue lengths to get a better idea.

Hellgi

ps. the guy who said that the sketches were all JW's handwriting either had only a fifth of the sketches, or has a pretty bad eye-sight.

pps. KM's tendency to be paranoid is pretty amazing indeed.

[Ollie 1,059]

Oh god we have to dredge this up again.

Hellgi do realize what you've started, again?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Lets see pics of those sketches to end this once and for all!!

[John Crichton 4]

Die thread, die!

[King Mark 3,631]

Just give me proof of new music written by William Ross,something we'd think John Williams composed,like Duelling the Basilisk or something like that.

[Ollie 1,059]

Now I'm lost, who ever said Ross actually wrote new music?

[King Mark 3,631]

Well if he claims William Ross wrote ~ 80 minutes and John Williams ~ 20,then it means Ross must have written major set pieces.

K.M.

[Ollie 1,059]

Again,for the 100th time, anything Ross wrote was based on Williams material.

It was never claimed he composed any new material.

[King Mark 3,631]

To me a cue with underscore I've never heard before but that has a statement of Harry's Theme in it is new music,not something adapted from HPSS

[John Crichton 4]

This whole thing has gotten so ridiculously circular that I don't know what anybody claimed anymore. Including me. I'm starting to wonder if Ross wrote something for Prisoner of Azkaban.

[Hellgi 0]

As far as I know, there's none, and I never implied there was. My original statement was that Ross wrote cues for CoS, when some people said he didn't.

You use semantic (basically saying that "adapting music is not composing" or "writing music is not necessarily composing") to prove your point (ie. "Bill Ross didn't compose anything").

I never said what he did was writing 100% original, new material (which has never been Bill's job anyway). My original post's goal was to discredit people who claimed Ross didn't do anything on CoS, or that his music was rejected and replaced by Williams', or that he didn't even conduct the score. It's simply false... I had sketches in front of me no latter than 2 hours ago proving that (and I'll have them again tomorrow morning).

Ross did write music on CoS, and much more than people thought or claimed. I can tell you exactly how much he wrote. I could even technically scan all the scores for you to look at and spend a week analyzing, but there's 500 pages of music, and I strangely don't feel like doing it

But sure, we already agreed on that: if writing music is not composing, then you're right. Bill Ross probably didn't compose a lot (if anything at all) on CoS.

Hellgi

[Ollie 1,059]

But the material he wrote is based on music previously composed by John Williams for HP:SS, correct?

He did not compose any new material of his own?

[John Crichton 4]

Hence (as I think I've said before) an "adaptation" rather than "composed" credit. It all still fits.

Now, about PoA....

[Ollie 1,059]

Oh don't start any silly rumors now John or you'll have KM going before the Supreme Court to launch an official investigation.

[Hellgi 0]

But the material he wrote is based on music previously composed by John Williams for HP:SS, correct?

He did not compose any new material of his own?

I think someone knowing HP:SS better than me would need to go over the 50+ cues Ross composed ("adapted"?) to make sure of that.

What I gathered from my discussion with him is that while he adapted most of the score from the previous Harry Potter, he also drew extensively from other JW's scores, at least in terms of chord progression, orchestration, etc. But only checking the score would confirm that (or not).

Hellgi

[King Mark 3,631]

so he was allowed to use the score to Attack of the Clones to write the Quidditch cue?

[Hellgi 0]

I know there's been a lot of discussion about that but I've always stated that Bill never mentioned it. The only score he told me about were older ones, like Superman.

I'll look tomorrow and check if he did indeed write that specific cue, and if he did, maybe if you'd like I could scan some parts of that cue for you.

Hellgi

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I had sketches in front of me no latter than 2 hours ago proving that (and I'll have them again tomorrow morning).

If you can get some pics, i'm sure this will finally end!

[indy4 155]

Lets see pics of those sketches to end this once and for all!!

I'm beggining to think that that's not possible...

But sure, we already agreed on that: if writing music is not composing, then you're right. Bill Ross probably didn't compose a lot (if anything at all) on CoS.

Hellgi

So JW composed the music, BR just figured out what instruments play when and where and stuff?

indy4 - who doesn't really care, as long as Fawkes the Phoenix, Chamber of Secrets, and Gilderoy Lockhart are by JW.

[Hellgi 0]

But sure, we already agreed on that: if writing music is not composing, then you're right. Bill Ross probably didn't compose a lot (if anything at all) on CoS.

Hellgi

So JW composed the music, BR just figured out what instruments play when and where and stuff?

indy4 - who doesn't really care, as long as Fawkes the Phoenix, Chamber of Secrets, and Gilderoy Lockhart are by JW.

I'm just saying that if - according to KM's vocabulary - composing isn't arranging or adapting, then Ross didn't compose much in CoS. According to that same definition, actual "composing" in CoS would probably be limited to JW's 15-20 cues.

And Fawkes the Phoenix, Chamber of Secrets, and Gilderoy Lockhart are definitely JW's

Hellgi

[Jeshopk 8]

There are a few bars of new music among the cues that feature mostly SS music. I will look through Wrobel's analysis to find the cue names and ask you if they are indeed by Ross.

[AI 0]

Oh please, Hellgi, spare the bullshit.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Didn't we end this discussion three months ago?

Dear me.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You see, I knew there was more to this!

[Ollie 1,059]

So basically, if I can sort thru this mess, what most of us sane people have been saying is true.

Williams wrote some new music and Ross adapted, arranged and conducted the rest. But because it's not spelled out as to who really did what people can't accept it.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yes. I think the horse has been dead for quite some time now.

Ray Barnsbuy

[Ollie 1,059]

Well somebody needs to reload and shoot the damn thing again because it's leg is still moving.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

If KM's the right leg, then Hellgi's the left, and they keep kicking at each other.

Ray Barnsbury - not sure how long this metaphor can continue