What exactly did William Ross do in Harry Potter the Chamber of Secrets

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Another thing to take into consideration: Pete Myles was music editor on both AotC and CoS. Bill has worked with him many times and I know he's often responsible for temping the movie. It's fairly realistic to think that he could have temped some cues of CoS with music from AotC. Nothing certain though - I'll ask him next time I talk to him.

Hellgi

That sounds like an interesting link.

It would certainly explain something to King Mark.

[publicist 4,643]

But why bother, anyway, with a film score which is quite mediocre, regardless of who-wrote-what??

When i had to review the DVD, i really couldn't find much of merit, the music sounded perfunctory and Hollywood-standardish for kiddie fantasy fare. The concert suites are really the only halfway worthwile thing to own.

AND the best of them, this 'Dracula' type theme for the chamber, doesn't even occur at key points of the film, if i remember right.

[Hellgi 0]

But why bother, anyway, with a film score which is quite mediocre, regardless of who-wrote-what??

(...) the music sounded perfunctory and Hollywood-standardish for kiddie fantasy fare.

Hmmm... maybe because your opinion is not shared by all the members of this board?

Hellgi

[King Mark 3,626]

obviously

[publicist 4,643]

Hmmm... maybe because your opinion is not shared by all the members of this board?

Hellgi

I'll bet on that.

Doesn't make the music better. But in fairness i have to say that i should expect that on a Williams-fan-board. What kind of orgasmic joy people like King Mark may feel when the world finally finds out that Williams was responsible for writing things like the Malfoy music may stay their secret.

[Jeshopk 8]

Hmmm... maybe because your opinion is not shared by all the members of this board?

Hellgi

I'll bet on that.

Doesn't make the music better. But in fairness i have to say that i should expect that on a Williams-fan-board. What kind of orgasmic joy people like King Mark may feel when the world finally finds out that Williams was responsible for writing things like the Malfoy music may stay their secret.

Well, your opinion is noted - but I seem to recall you trashing Poltergeist and other classics in favor of Jerry's 'classics' such as Deep Rising on this page http://home.t-online.de/home/tom-sami/welcome.htm

Hmm. Now where did that go? Let's see those reviews again.

[publicist 4,643]

Well, your opinion is noted - but I seem to recall you trashing Poltergeist and other classics in favor of Jerry's 'classics' such as Deep Rising on this page http://home.t-online.de/home/tom-sami/welcome.htm

Hmm. Now where did that go? Let's see those reviews again.

Apart from the fact that the 'Poltergeist' trashing was done by the other guy writing the comments and 'Deep Rising' still rocks, i hope this isn't one of those ill-fated attempts to invalidate one's opinion because it isn't corresponding with your own? No, you wouldn't sink as low as that.

And i eagerly await your thorough condemnation when i tell you that i don't even hold 'Superman' in high regard. This PLUS my disdain for cozy rehashs like the first two Potters should give u enough ammunition to shred my credibility to tears, wouldn't it?

[Marcus 390]

Hm.

I think Williams' score for CoS is wonderful, as far as the concert suite is concerned. As a film score, it is high quality writing, at the level that can be expected from Williams on a tight schedule. There are some absolutely magnificent moments, and then there is the rest, which is rehashed HPPS, mostly, and I don't mind.

Again, because what matters to me is the music, and I am grateful for a handsome set of beautifully fleshed out concert arrangements of very attractive themes, and to me, they are a more interesting response to the Harry Potter saga than the films anyway.

"Deep Rising"?

An interesting score to bring up.

I love when Goldsmith conceptuality is camouflaged by music that on the surface is completely trivial.

This seems to have been a more or less typical late Goldsmithian approach.

Goldsmith's scores to Godawful films such as this (and there were many of them in his output!) are extremely fascinating: His analysis of a film, and exactly how he translates it into musical terms, is incredibly interesting, and usually phenomenally simple and right.

Goldsmith was a conceptual composer, and a master of post-modernity.

For him, style and technique were simply tools, at least in his film scores.

I don't personally really relate so much to that approach, but I respect and admire Goldsmith tremendously for his intellectual brilliance.

Still, as pure music, CoS (or the concert suite known as CoS) is better than most anything penned by non-Williams composers in Hollywood after the mid 1980s.

[Jeshopk 8]

Well, your opinion is noted - but I seem to recall you trashing Poltergeist and other classics in favor of Jerry's 'classics' such as Deep Rising on this page http://home.t-online.de/home/tom-sami/welcome.htm

Hmm. Now where did that go? Let's see those reviews again.

Apart from the fact that the 'Poltergeist' trashing was done by the other guy writing the comments and 'Deep Rising' still rocks, i hope this isn't one of those ill-fated attempts to invalidate one's opinion because it isn't corresponding with your own? No, you wouldn't sink as low as that.

And i eagerly await your thorough condemnation when i tell you that i don't even hold 'Superman' in high regard. This PLUS my disdain for cozy rehashs like the first two Potters should give u enough ammunition to shred my credibility to tears, wouldn't it?

I thought both Poltergeist reviews were negative. It was a fantastic site, though and I laughed out loud at some of your great metaphors/similes. Not that it matters, and no I can't invalidate your opinion. My point is that if King Mark wants to have an 'orgasm' over this, he has every right without being mocked and belittled as you do to enjoy stuff like Deep Rising as standalone music.

And if there was a discussion about who wrote what in Air Force One over at jerrygoldsmithonline.com, or even here for that matter, I doubt there would be so many thread hijackers chiming in to say "who cares, the music is not that good"

[Hellgi 0]

Well... I was talking to Bill last night about the scoring process for Potter and at one point he mentioned how working on the Quidditch game was especially hard. I asked him why and he said that besides the start of the cue, nothing was temped with music from HP1...

So I asked what it was temped with and Bill told me Pete Myles put some music from the recent Star Wars - TPM and AotC in there.

So we can safely assume that some other cues in CoS were temped with those two movies as well!

Hellgi

[King Mark 3,626]

So there it is,the Quidditch music is basically Chase through Coruscant re-orchestrated a little.

I still want to know specifically about the end of Reunion of Friends.Did Ross record part of the cue (The House Cup and Leaving Hogwarts) and Williams composed new extensions (the opening minute and ending)?

That would explain that Williams wrote short cues that were recorded separately then edited with re-hashed HPSS music on the OST tracks.

the problem with your answers is that you still remain elusively vague enough for us to make our interpretations.

[Hellgi 0]

My replies are based on what I learn about CoS, not on things I wish or things I'd like to be... ie. if I'm vague it's because I don't know more at this point. Sorry.

H.

[TownerFan 4,983]

the problem with your answers is that you still remain elusively vague enough for us to make our interpretations.

Well, regarding the Quidditch cues, from Hellgi's posts now everything seems pretty clear (and quite simple, I may add): Bill Ross was probably asked to stay as close as possible to the temp-track. Really, that's everything but shocking, it happens all the time.

[Ollie 1,059]

I think the answers have been given and people don't want to listen.

I'm satisfied, not that I really care that much, that the original explanation given is and was valid.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed, I appriciate Hellgi taking the time to actual ask William Ross, but I'm not really finding out anything dramatically new.

I guess King Mark is just obsessed.

[John Crichton 4]

I want more, but for a good reason. What Hellgi's given us so far is facinating.

[pi 0]

Ive seen the sketch book (gigantic) of HP2, but I cannot remember whos hand it is in. I wish i had paid attention.

I am not sure why this whole thing is so secretive.

[King Mark 3,626]

Because I sense some people covering up other people's asses.

but Helgi,I don't want to sound agressive or obsessed,I just also want to read as much as you have to tell us

[Hellgi 0]

Ok, so I have the answer regarding Reunion of Friends. We were watching the end of the movie with Bill last night and he answered a couple of questions for me...

1/ The whole cue was sketched by him (but that I already knew);

2/ The whole first part is just Ross playing around with the "Friends / Reunion" theme.

3/ There's a short passage in the film, right after Hagrid talks to Harry and people starts applauding, which was replaced after the recording. Complete temp-love from the producers. It's a short passage from a HP1 cue. It doesn't make any sense dramatically or musically but you know how it goes.

4/ After that, it goes back to the Reunion theme

5/ The whole ending after that is 100% new material by Ross. When watching it Bill suddenly told me, "It's me, it's me!"

There *is* new material in CoS... Bill told me that kind of stuff happened at some other places throughout the movie. He would write a new ending or a bridge to join various themes for example.

Jerome

[Ollie 1,059]

And there you have it, again.

No conspiracy, no hidden agenda.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Well, everything's very clear now. I have to say that Bill Ross did a very good job, especially if you consider the huge pressures from producers which he probably had to handle. I imagine it should not be very easy to "replace" John Williams and try to not disappoint the people who hired you, even if they're "only" asking you to reproduce almost note-for-note Williams' temp-track.

Oh, and big props to Bill for writing that marvelous new ending to "Reunion of Friends" cue! I love that piece.

Thanks Hellgi for sharing these tidbits with us!

[Jeshopk 8]

A great job on expanding that cue. He truly did make it sound like pure Williams.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I'm almost afraid to ask but... does this settle things, then? Are we done with this issue?

[King Mark 3,626]

5/ The whole ending after that is 100% new material by Ross. When watching it Bill suddenly told me, "It's me, it's me!"

There *is* new material in CoS... Bill told me that kind of stuff happened at some other places throughout the movie. He would write a new ending or a bridge to join various themes for example.

Jerome

Well,no other composer has gotten Williams exactly right.It would be a first.

k.M.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Mark,

Because all those directors preferred to work with different composers.

That is all.

Thank you for your time.

- Marc

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm almost afraid to ask but... does this settle things, then? Are we done with this issue?

Apparently not.

You know KM sometimes you just don't get it. The reason JW did not score HP4 is because he wanted to score Geisha, the director of HP4 wanted Patrick Doyle, the director of HP5 wanted Hooper.

JP3 was beneath Williams and Spielberg wasn't directing. Singer used his regular composer for Superman Returns, I doubt Williams wanted to score the film.

Williams was busy, could not commit to scoring the entire HP2 so he agreed to write some new music and let Ross adapt, arrange and conduct the score for the film.

You cannot just paste music together and expect it to fit in coherently. Sometimes when adapting a composer may have to compose a little bridge of music to get it to fit.

Even Don Davis had to make slight adjustments to Williams' music to fit the movie.

Nowhere have I seen William Ross come out and claim he composed all this music. He's worked with Williams before.

[King Mark 3,626]

They should have brought Ross back to score HP 4 and 5 then

[John Crichton 4]

Sounds like Ross and Williams had a very good working relationship.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I'm almost afraid to ask but... does this settle things, then? Are we done with this issue?

Of course NOT!

Now onto important matters.

Hellgi, could Ross offer us the recordings sessions?

I dont think so, but hey, asking doesnt hurt.

Congratulations for him too for CoS, it may not be a masterpiece, but its a 100% Williams score. Not many (if any) had done that before.

Mmmm...now we have another contender for the Scoring of the SW TV series....

[Hellgi 0]

Whoever is interested, PM me.

[King Mark 3,626]

2/ The whole first part is just Ross playing around with the "Friends / Reunion" theme.

This makes me more dissapointed in John Williams than anything else.This is the scene where Hermione runs to hug Harry at the end,the very scene John Williams chose to make his comments on the DVD bonus disk featurette.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Did he?

Or did some editor just insert that bit of footage from the film there?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I like how KM's recent comments in this thread are all of a sudden a lot less abrasive than they were when first posted.

[King Mark 3,626]

I was just arguing my conviction.At least it got the discussion this far.

but I guess there's no point going on how I hear specific chord progressions from Superman,The Movie and The Unfinished Journey in that ending of Reunion of Friends...the theory now is that William Ross is JW's clone.

K.M.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

but I guess there's no point going on how I hear specific chord progressions from Superman,The Movie and The Unfinished Journey in that ending of Reunion of Friends...the theory now is that William Ross is JW's clone.

Or, you know, that maybe John Williams doesn't own those chord progressions.

[Hellgi 0]

or, maybe, that Bill had access to these scores and/or sketches and he imitated Williams' style (as he was supposed to do).

.the theory now is that William Ross is JW's clone.

K.M.

Well, the copy can't be better than the original... Isn't it?

[Ollie 1,059]

or, maybe, that Bill had access to these scores and/or sketches and he imitated Williams' style (as he was supposed to do).

Gee, who woulda thought that?

That makes too much sense.

[King Mark 3,626]

or, maybe, that Bill had access to these scores and/or sketches and he imitated Williams' style (as he was supposed to do).

That would be realistic.He could take a certain passage he wants his cue to sound like,then just switches the themes.But I based my theories on the basis he didn't have access to anything else than HPSS.If he had the whole JW library in front of him...

KM.

[John Crichton 4]

I think there's been a serious uptick in our respect for William Ross. And it's well earned.

[King Mark 3,626]

More like dissapointment in John Williams

[Hellgi 0]

You'll have to explain to me in what way did Williams disappoint you? I don't get it

or, maybe, that Bill had access to these scores and/or sketches and he imitated Williams' style (as he was supposed to do).

That would be realistic.He could take a certain passage he wants his cue to sound like,then just switches the themes.But I based my theories on the basis he didn't have access to anything else than HPSS.If he had the whole JW library in front of him...

KM.

Bill told me once this story: he was looking for a specific cue and called John. (Don't remember from which movie). John replied "Oh, I don't know where it could be... let me look in my attic..." and a few hours later he received a phone call from John saying he found the score Bill was looking for. Bill managed to get a copy in the end. Even though JW is (really) not fond of sharing his manuscripts.

Besides, Bill has a huge library with a lot of manuscripts (full scores or sketches)... and he got many of them through "unofficial" channels... like many people here...

Bill told me yesterday, after looking at some sketches from The Cowboys (which he also has in his library), that JW has been sketching the same "way" for 30 years... same sketch paper, same shortcuts, same notation, etc.

You know, Bill in his 20's and 30's was completely into JW... he made four hand reductions and wrote orchestral transcription of Star Wars, just for himself... just to learn how the master does it... Bill got into this business in part because of JW's music. *And* Bill is a great composer and a great orchestrator (IMHO). His problem is that he doesn't get the projects he deserves. It's partly his fault of course... (but that probably belongs to another thread )

H.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I really, really like his scores to My Dog Skip and Tuck Everlasting. I'd love to hear something more from him in that vein, but I haven't.

[mahler3 478]

I really, really like his scores to My Dog Skip and Tuck Everlasting. I'd love to hear something more from him in that vein, but I haven't.

Yes Ray absolutely, My Dog Skip is just wonderful. Some moments of Tin Cup and the scores to The Amazing Panda Adventure, Ladder 49, The Game of Their Lives and Young Black Stallion are excellent too. My Fellow Americans is also a great fun score with an infectiously catchy theme - worth tracking all of these down or PM me

[Jeshopk 8]

You'll have to explain to me in what way did Williams disappoint you? I don't get it

or, maybe, that Bill had access to these scores and/or sketches and he imitated Williams' style (as he was supposed to do).

That would be realistic.He could take a certain passage he wants his cue to sound like,then just switches the themes.But I based my theories on the basis he didn't have access to anything else than HPSS.If he had the whole JW library in front of him...

KM.

Bill told me once this story: he was looking for a specific cue and called John. (Don't remember from which movie). John replied "Oh, I don't know where it could be... let me look in my attic..." and a few hours later he received a phone call from John saying he found the score Bill was looking for. Bill managed to get a copy in the end. Even though JW is (really) not fond of sharing his manuscripts.

Besides, Bill has a huge library with a lot of manuscripts (full scores or sketches)... and he got many of them through "unofficial" channels... like many people here...

Bill told me yesterday, after looking at some sketches from The Cowboys (which he also has in his library), that JW has been sketching the same "way" for 30 years... same sketch paper, same shortcuts, same notation, etc.

You know, Bill in his 20's and 30's was completely into JW... he made four hand reductions and wrote orchestral transcription of Star Wars, just for himself... just to learn how the master does it... Bill got into this business in part because of JW's music. *And* Bill is a great composer and a great orchestrator (IMHO). His problem is that he doesn't get the projects he deserves. It's partly his fault of course... (but that probably belongs to another thread )

H.

Well, tell Bill I am pulling for him to get some more scoring work, and I will buy his existing scores. I heard My Fellow Americans in the film, but need to catch up on his other music. These days, a pure orchestral music composer can be a hard sell to a producer. Orchestra music has been stereotyped into fewer genres. It seems less appreciated now, but the fads come and go. I just hope he doesn't end up in another line of work! We need more guys in the field who can really write music the way he does. Maybe he can get a job on that Star Wars TV show coming up. Connect with Jesse Harlin on MySpace. He works as a composer for LucasArts and has always been happy to chat. Maybe he knows who to connect with.

[Giftheck 916]

I don't know if anyone spotted this, but did anyone notice in Chamber of Secrets, during the Quidditch scene (which was all tracked, from what I can tell) there is a snippet there that sounds suspiciously like a portion from Attack of the Clones Zam Wesell and the Chase Through Coruscant?

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I don't know if anyone spotted this, but did anyone notice in Chamber of Secrets, during the Quidditch scene (which was all tracked, from what I can tell) there is a snippet there that sounds suspiciously like a portion from Attack of the Clones Zam Wesell and the Chase Through Coruscant?

You really did not read all the pages in this thread or other COS threads...did you?

[Ollie 1,059]

"General, we've hit this thing with everything we have. I'm afraid this creature is incapable of being destroyed Sir."

"My god soldier, is there nothing we can do to save mankind from this?"

[indy4 155]

I don't know if anyone spotted this, but did anyone notice in Chamber of Secrets, during the Quidditch scene (which was all tracked, from what I can tell) there is a snippet there that sounds suspiciously like a portion from Attack of the Clones Zam Wesell and the Chase Through Coruscant?

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13693&hl=

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Hey, I was beginning to miss this thread already.

[Giftheck 916]

I don't know if anyone spotted this, but did anyone notice in Chamber of Secrets, during the Quidditch scene (which was all tracked, from what I can tell) there is a snippet there that sounds suspiciously like a portion from Attack of the Clones Zam Wesell and the Chase Through Coruscant?

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13693&hl=

Yep, I thought so. I put that track into a bootleg I made, including this segment (which I believe replaces the segment from HP1 with the Voldemort theme)