Williams' Duo Concertante for Viola and Violin

[Marcus 390]

It doesn't make you less of a Williams fan if you prefer his film scores to his concertos for whatever instrument.

Hmmm... Well, we can't answer the question "how much heart does Williams pour into his scores, and how much does he pour into the concert music?", so arguing your statement from whatever point of view is futile, of course. But if you are, like I am, a fan of Williams' film music and not his concerti music, you cannot deny that we are missing out on something, on a very big part of the Maestro's style and, yes, personality.

It doesn't matter if we put more passion, or time, or get obsessed more than other, more "global" fans. In the end we are the ones that are missing out.

I have all his concertos and non celebratory concert works and have listened to them many times.They seem very schizophrenic and seem composed by another person at times.I thinks he tries to hard to be serious and artsy in those pieces.That said I enjoy some individual movements or pieces(like Soundings)

You know, it´s funny:

I no longer hear so much the differences, but rather the similarities between Williams´film output and his concert works. They have become the same to me.

I think the syntax, the technical aspects, and most importantly, the heart and the lyricism, are the same. Williams´great poetic sensibilities, his way of making a phrase or a melodic statement feel "just right", and feel imbued with a certain magic, are no less present in his concert output.

As much as I love his film music, I am almost tempted to say I prefer his concert works. But I am sure that his film music will be played at classical concerts the way ballet scores have also entered the repertoire. I am also equally certain that Williams´stature and recognition as a composer will only continue to grow, and with it, the interest in all the facets of his ouvre.

I do think that Williams is at his most "honest" in his concert works, however. But, again, the style is actually very much the same,except there are certain things that "pure, abstract" music can only do with great difficulty; It can be very hard outside a dramatic context, to find the justification to write something like "The Imperial March", simply because it is so laden with connotations, it is so completely devoted to conveying an image. As part of a non-programmatic concert work, this kind of music will easily seem out-of-place.

Mind you, I´m not saying you can´t do it, and I try to do it myself at times, and wish it would be done more,-I´m simply saying it´s tricky!

To me, Williams has found a wonderful, completely relevant and modern classical voice, and I think he is continuing a great classical-romantic tradition in a deeply satisfactory and convincing way.

[Romão 2,274]

Great post, Marcus

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not really, just more grandstanding with big-semi intellectual phrases that are supposed to impress us.

I do it all the time.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Williams's concert works are boring.

[Saxbabe 28]

I totally agree with Marcus. I think they are anything but boring! I feel he's most himself in his concert works, as we get a glimpse into what he writes when he's completely free.

He has developed a strong and unique contemporary classical voice, mixing atonal experimentation with romantic conventions, and you can definitely hear still his filmic style, so they seem very interlinked rather than schizophrenic to me.

It's interesting that a lot of contemporary "classical" music is getting away from the random beep-bonk-bing and swinging back towards tonality and synthesizing the old and new, in fact a lot of it is even now influenced by film music! Which I think is a great turn of events - new classical music doesn't have to be unaccessible to be "artsy" and "valid" anymore, as was the thought 20 years ago. This can only bring more people to new music I think, film music is even becoming a bridge into contemporary classical for some people. So JW's introspective yet at times filmic concert writing fits in very well in this landscape. I certainly look forward very much to each new concert work.

His Violin and Bassoon Concertos are real gems, the Horn Concerto is great fun, but I was just revisiting the Tuba Concerto, and I think it's one of his most "filmic" and accessible, if that's what grabs you most. It really is beautiful and one to get a hold of. It's rather Jaws Out to Sea-ish in the last movement and has some gorgeous, elegant writing for the solo tuba in the middle.

Besides that, I just could not be without the Yo-Yo Ma disc, the cello pieces, like the Elegy, are just melting. And Soundings is truly fantastic, showing an extremely creative JW, translating the visual into aural, I just love the idea of making Disney Hall "sing"! The video, where he discusses seeing the metal curves of the building and imagining what sound would be created if you could "bow" or "play" the architecture, brilliant. Awesome use of electronics!

Really, I think his concert works are just as important or even more, to get to know him as an all-around composer. Can't wait to hear his new Duo Concertante.

[Jeshopk 8]

The clarinet and tuba concertos are quite underappreciated methinks. Or maybe not... Maybe everyone loves them. Time for poll?

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

Marcus and Greta, you leave little to be added...

Still, let me say that I do find that most of Williams non film writting is in fact superior, in the sense that we are only dealing with the man, and not the crap influences that is provided by most of Hollywood output (Patriot or Heartbeeps or Monsignor or a bunch of other entries anyone?)

The fact that Williams can present us with great scores, great music, even to this subpar filmic efforts is nothing short of a miracle.

But what people should accept is that film music fans aren't music fans in the full sense of the word. Don't take me wrong, as there isn't anything wrong with that. I do feel that is what Ross so well put it... those who will only care for Williams film output will end up loosing something. But that up to you. Hey, I don't care, not my problem.

But I do believe that one should come to terms with that and accpet, that at least on most cases, film music fans need the images to support the apreciation for the music. Most people will listen to this as a souvenir from the movie. Again, no problem with that, but one should accpet it as it is.

I for once, rarelly care for the films. I do try to watch the films Williams did, but with few exceptions in about 100 of them, I barelly remember the plots.

Let's not even talk about his TV work... the series themselves I kind of find quiet forgetable. Nevertheless, his work is always great... And I just don't care for what it was written, and even find it funny trying to imagine what kind of scene this may have tried to underscore.

Other times, in fact for the most part of them, I just enjoy the music for it self, and really don't even think of images. It's music, it's an aural experience, not a visual one.

That's the way I feel. If you feel diferent, great for you. I don't mind that at all, but please, don't anoy me telling how this is Williams trying to be artsy, because this works are his true self, free from the constrains of film.

[A24 4,326]

I just enjoy the music for it self, and really don't even think of images. It's music, it's an aural experience, not a visual one.

Spoken like a true fan. I too never listen to Williams just to relive a film moment. I think Williams music is so powerful (often too powerful in context with the film) that it creates its own world.

Alex

[Incanus 5,713]

I love and appreciate both sides of Maestro's art. His music whether for film or for concert hall speaks to me very profoundly. And over the years I have come to realize how much his concert works contain the same sense of lyricism and intricate skill in orchestral colour that is the same as in his film work but expressed purely in abstract form. It might be challenging and not so hummable music than his film work which aims for accessibility but still retains the same unique style. How could it not? We are talking about the same man! His concert works are after all purely his abstract personal expression whether completely free of any programmatic thought or influenced by other works (e.g. books, music, art in general, nature etc.). This is not to say that film music is not his personal expression but it is that with certain restrictions of timings, directors and other film makers, film editing and first and foremost the visuals. Concert music is free from all this as many have pointed out so there is where Williams' personal preferences come to fore. And that is why it is perhaps the most personal music he writes. And as a fan of the composer I have always appreciated both worlds as they are not two separate personas to me. Only different facets of the same voice.

Williams' music is indeed strong music which can stand on its own without the support of any images. It paints powerful pictures. But even if I love his music for its own sake seeing it in marriage with the images can be an elevating experience. That is part of the beauty of his music, the power of it combined with the visuals. With film music the work is always tied to a story somehow and tells one way or the other that story through music. And I have to say that the context is many times (although not always) important. It justifies the music in a way when you know the ideas behind it. And sometimes it is not required as the music simply paints it own aural pictures. With Williams' music I find that he has composed both kinds. But all of it is written with the integrity of a serious artist and with class and skill that does not cease to amaze me.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Marcus, Greta and Miguel said everything about it, so I'll simply say I agree with their words with all my heart.

I think many people doesn't connect with JW's concert music just because it isn't as immediate and programmatic like his film scores. It's absolute music, in many cases without a programmatic influence, so it's "pure" music that deals with feelings and ideas in a much more abstract way. I feel close to Miguel's thought also relating to how I listen to many of JW's film scores, in the sense that in a lot of cases I put apart the memories of the film itself and connect with it just as pure music (without forgetting the circumstances and the reasons - i.e. the storytelling aspect - within which that music was written).

[nicholas 1]

It's worth pointing out that the film scores are almost invariably divided into convenient bite-size cues of an average of 3-5 minutes duration, ie. the length of the average pop song, and don't take the same committment to listen to as, say, a 30 minute concerto. The attention span required is that much greater for the concert pieces, particularly when taking into account the low boredom thresholds most people have.

[Romão 2,274]

Some people just need to know what to think when listening to music. One the qualities I look for in music is how evocative it is. I think it is pure magic when a piece of music can make me feel I've traveled places, experienced specific emotions... in that sense programatic music really is an easier route. I really can't say that a film score or a concert work by Williams require the same kind of aproach from the listener. You have to look for something else in his concert works, otherwise I don't think you will ever be able to enjoy them.

[Jeshopk 8]

I think many people doesn't connect with JW's concert music just because it isn't as immediate and programmatic like his film scores.

I think his film music has more immediate impact overall, but listen to more abstract parts of Raiders or Close Encounters - without the images, people might not know what to think.

Williams Flute concerto is programmatic, generally. Read his comments in the liner notes. Many of his concert pieces are that way. Heartwood, 5 Sacred Trees... I think Williams has a chance to choose the content of the program in these pieces - and what he imagines in his mind is like no film he has had the chance to score. I wonder what kind of a movie he would direct if he was a director.

[King Mark 3,626]

It's worth pointing out that the film scores are almost invariably divided into convenient bite-size cues of an average of 3-5 minutes duration, ie. the length of the average pop song, and don't take the same committment to listen to as, say, a 30 minute concerto. The attention span required is that much greater for the concert pieces, particularly when taking into account the low boredom thresholds most people have.

That's a condenscending thing to say.

It also takes me 2 hours to listen to The Empire Strikes Back in gapless playback

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

But if you are, like I am, a fan of Williams' film music and not his concerti music, you cannot deny that we are missing out on something, on a very big part of the Maestro's style and, yes, personality.

those who will only care for Williams film output will end up loosing something

Hmm, I understand the point being made here, but if someone has truly listened to Williams' classical/concert works and simply doesn't enjoy them, I don't think it's fair to say they're "missing out." Unless you feel that everyone who doesn't adore, for example, The Patriot or Always or anything else is missing out.

And it's somewhat common around here for people to feel very smug with the fact that they love Williams' classical pieces, and thus feel that they're better fans the rest. But film music is an entirely different ballgame, and a person who admires and is passionate about the way Williams writes for film, how his music affects the images, complementing, contrasting, uplifting them, etc, is no less of a fan than someone who is equally passionate about the music he writes without the "restrictions" of a film.

Ray Barnsbury - who wants to get into more of Williams' classical works

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I dont have anything against Williams concert works. Speaking of, sometimes i prefer the concert versions of his film music than the renditions in the film. But in some i feel like king mark, i dont find them melodic (but maybe i'm just tonedeaf)

But sometimes i would like Williams to write a more 'classical' sounding concertos. I mean i would love a waltz for example. John has made a great waltz in Geisha, and a fun one in PoA, but i would like to hear a 10 minute piece for example. What about 'string quartet' from Jane Eyre? I love that kind of ussage of the strings, Williams could write a concerto like that. The Viola in Tibet in geisha is great, but for me its hard sometimes to hear the Yo-Yo Ma disc. Also Williams can write great baroque music, like Jaws 'Montage', Jabba's recital and 'Exultate justi' concert version from the Williams-Spielberg collaborations.

I have not seen Jane Eyre, but its music is one of my favoutires, and i fell in love with Geisha even before reading the book or seeing the movie. I havent seen many Williams movies either, so in that regard, i dont think i need the images to enjoy the music.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

But if you are, like I am, a fan of Williams' film music and not his concerti music, you cannot deny that we are missing out on something, on a very big part of the Maestro's style and, yes, personality.

those who will only care for Williams film output will end up loosing something

Hmm, I understand the point being made here, but if someone has truly listened to Williams' classical/concert works and simply doesn't enjoy them, I don't think it's fair to say they're "missing out." Unless you feel that everyone who doesn't adore, for example, The Patriot or Always or anything else

Well, I was responding to King Mark, and yours is a different point altogether. But I'll try and elaborate on the Concert Works vs. The Patriot argument. In my opinion, it's all about the creative freedom involved - there are a lot of times, in the Film Music sphere, in which John Williams is hired to sound like John Williams, and he realizes this and complies because that's his job. It doesn't mean that's the music he wants to write (although, as you might point out, there many upon many occasions in which both job and passion have coincided; see E.T., Jaws, Close Encounters, Jane Eyre... it'd be dumb to deny that Williams isn't enjoying himself systematically because he is writing for film). But writing concert music is much less restricting. He can take the music wherever he feels like, he can even afford to experiment and not sound like John Williams.

And that desire for progress, that curiosity if you will, is a part of his musical "personality" as the brassy fanfares. It's also a part we are denied in some of his film works, so that's why I don't think they're comparable. So yes, we're missing out.

And it's somewhat common around here for people to feel very smug with the fact that they love Williams' classical pieces, and thus feel that they're better fans the rest. But film music is an entirely different ballgame, and a person who admires and is passionate about the way Williams writes for film, how his music affects the images, complementing, contrasting, uplifting them, etc, is no less of a fan than someone who is equally passionate about the music he writes without the "restrictions" of a film.

I can't answer to that any more than I already have. As I said, I don't have a problem admitting my limitations as a fan, and leave the title for the real ones out there.

Then again, why are we fighting for the title of True Fanatics? Other than feeling okay to feel smug towards the lesser ones.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

And that desire for progress, that curiosity if you will, is a part of his musical "personality" as the brassy fanfares. It's also a part we are denied in some of his film works, so that's why I don't think he's comparable. So yes, we're missing out.

Indeed. I just take issue with the implication that this is a bad thing (which maybe you're not even implying)...if someone has given something a chance and it's not their cup of tea, they're not necessarily worse off for not enjoying it. With that said, I've heard very few of Williams' non-film/non-celebratory concert works, which is why I don't have a personal opinion on the matter.

Then again, why are we fighting for the title of True Fanatics?

No idea! I certainly wouldn't be presumptuous enough to declare myself more a fan than someone else based on our musical tastes.

Ray Barnsbury

[John Crichton 4]

Well Peio's sig is screaming at me to post in here.

It's not that I've been ignoring it, I just haven't had anything to say about it. Like Ray and KM I haven't connected that well with Williams' concert works that I've heard (at least the non-Olympic ones) but of course the fact that he's actually got something new coming out after this loooooooooong dry spell is exciting. Hopefully we'll be able to get a recording of this.

[scissorhands 16]

Well Peio's sig is screaming at me to post in here.

Well, I have to admit it was pretty effective!

And I suscribe to all said by Marcus. That's more or less my point of view on Williams' music.

[King Mark 3,626]

But if you are, like I am, a fan of Williams' film music and not his concerti music, you cannot deny that we are missing out on something, on a very big part of the Maestro's style and, yes, personality.

those who will only care for Williams film output will end up loosing something

Hmm, I understand the point being made here, but if someone has truly listened to Williams' classical/concert works and simply doesn't enjoy them, I don't think it's fair to say they're "missing out." Unless you feel that everyone who doesn't adore, for example, The Patriot or Always or anything else

Well, I was responding to King Mark, and yours is a different point altogether. But I'll try and elaborate on the Concert Works vs. The Patriot argument. In my opinion, it's all about the creative freedom involved - there are a lot of times, in the Film Music sphere, in which John Williams is hired to sound like John Williams, and

And I'm not missing out on anything.I'm the first one here wanting a recording of these concertos even if I don't enjoy them as much as his film music.I still consider them an essential part of my collection and I have pretty much all the legit/bootleg versions that exist

[King Mark 3,626]

Also,I'm one the few people here to get overly excited when a snippet of unreleased theme surfaces,like that new NBC news theme in the other thread.

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

Some people just need to know what to think when listening to music. One the qualities I look for in music is how evocative it is. I think it is pure magic when a piece of music can make me feel I've traveled places, experienced specific emotions... in that sense programatic music really is an easier route. I really can't say that a film score or a concert work by Williams require the same kind of aproach from the listener. You have to look for something else in his concert works, otherwise I don't think you will ever be able to enjoy them.

Fair enought. But then those people should accept that their perception of a piece of music is subject to the ideas presented by others. Not that there is anything wrong with that...

The Five Sacred Trees, for example, are programatic, and knowing the overall idea that came as subject matter will conjure a visual on one's mind, that may be very obvious -- an oak for the first movement, for example.

At the same time, Heartwood, while somewhat programatic, can get much more abstract, and the only visual I can find on my mind is one pretty abstract as well.

Now the thing about loosing something, is if you just don't want to listen to them. I can understand Romão's point very well, and how that may lead to not liking Williams concert output. But one thing is saying, ok, i don't like this so much, but I do try to listen to them, and understand them, other thing is the somewhat silly position some seem to take, that Williams concert output is just artsy stuff full of pseudointellectual outbursts.

Finally, I don't find anything of condescending when it was pointed out that a film cue is the same lenght of a Rock song. C'mon Mark, you and I, and some of the guys here are a minority who can listen to a two hour score from begining to end. Most "film music" fans take only the main titles... Believe me, I do know quiet a few of those...

[Elmo Lewis 6]

And I'm not missing out on anything.I'm the first one here wanting a recording of these concertos even if I don't enjoy them as much as his film music.

That statement says it all.

[Composer_Fan 2]

I'm really excited about the Duo Concertante and the new concerto as well. I'm interested in hearing JW's chamber music. With the exception of the "Three Pieces for Solo Cello," all the concert music I've heard has been orchestral.

~Tyler, who only just got Five Sacred Trees today.

[Tom 4,640]

The main page mentions a scheduled Oct 22 performance of this piece. Did the performance happen? Is there a report on it?

[Bowie 45]

Although I do appreciate the concert works, I MUCH prefer the film music, regardless of whether it accompanies a film or not: I prefer the concert suites/marches/other fully developed standalone pieces to the often frenetic underscore; and of my favourite Williams scores, I'd say I've seen maybe 1/3rd of their corresponding films.

I still haven't seen Angela's Ashes, Sabrina, Seven Years in Tibet, Jane Eyre, Far and Away, The Fury, The Witches of Eastwick, 1941, JFK, SpaceCamp blah blah blah, but I find the concert pieces (and many other scene-specific programmatic pieces) BRILLIANT, and love the complexity and genius that hides itself underneath the "immediate" structures and themes.

Likewise, I heard many of the film scores BEFORE I saw the films (like A.I., Memoirs of a Geisha, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban etc etc etc etc etc), and the art of their placement within their films is a separate appreciation, but clearly to me had little to no impact on my love for the music itself.

[Frosty 0]

For those of you interested...

http://halleonard.com/item_detail.jsp?item...=john+williams+

Check it out

Frosty

[scissorhands 16]

Oh, my...

Is it out yet? Sheetmusicplus says

Pre-shipment lead time:

3 to 5 business days

I can't wait to see this. I'm more excited about this than about the so-expected Alien CD (which I want to get a.s.a.p.).

[KingPin 201]

I ordered it last week from Sheet Music Plus. Should arrive soon I hope. Too bad I haven't heard the piece yet...

[Neimoidian 14]

There are just... notes , aren't they?

- Chris, a musical illiterate

[ins 42]

does anybody know if and when this concerto is going to be recorded?

[scissorhands 16]

does anybody know if and when this concerto is going to be recorded?

It's going to be recorded by the 2 musicians that premiered the work. No date announced so far.

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

Wonderful release

[scissorhands 16]

I finally ordered it. I hope it arrives soon.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I totally have to get this. If only to play it with my girlfriend

[Composer_Fan 2]

I still haven't heard this piece! I'm surprised this is already available from Hal Leonard.

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

I totally have to get this. If only to play it with my girlfriend

And record it for our listening pleasure

[KingPin 201]

I totally have to get this. If only to play it with my girlfriend

And record it for our listening pleasure

Second that.

[Marcus 390]

So the score arrived, and I'm loving it!

I will make sure this gets programmed in Norway in the very near future, and hopefully we'll have a beautiful "bootleg" of this soon!

[Sandor 796]

Can't wait!

What's it like?

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

So the score arrived, and I'm loving it!

I will make sure this gets programmed in Norway in the very near future, and hopefully we'll have a beautiful "bootleg" of this soon!

Can that be done, lets say, yesterday?

I'm really looking for this one...

[Marcus 390]

So the score arrived, and I'm loving it!

I will make sure this gets programmed in Norway in the very near future, and hopefully we'll have a beautiful "bootleg" of this soon!

Can that be done, lets say, yesterday?

I'm really looking for this one...

I have two very close friends, a wonderful couple, who play viola (he) and violin (she), in the Oslo Philharmonic and the Norwegian Opera Orchestra respectively.

I will also pass the parts on to players I know in New York, and I'm pretty sure this piece will get many performances, as it is a beautiful work, darkly lyrical and brilliantly written for the instruments, and with a finale that should be great fun to play!

I co-organize chamber recitals at a center for liberal arts in Oslo from time to time (when I'm there), and I will programm this piece in the next couple of months, perhaps even sooner.

Best,

Marcus

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It is anything like his film music at all?

[Hitch 57]

"There are simply too many notes. Just cut a few and it''ll be perfect."

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

So the score arrived, and I'm loving it!

I will make sure this gets programmed in Norway in the very near future, and hopefully we'll have a beautiful "bootleg" of this soon!

Can that be done, lets say, yesterday?

I'm really looking for this one...

I have two very close friends, a wonderful couple, who play viola (he) and violin (she), in the Oslo Philharmonic and the Norwegian Opera Orchestra respectively.

I will also pass the parts on to players I know in New York, and I'm pretty sure this piece will get many performances, as it is a beautiful work, darkly lyrical and brilliantly written for the instruments, and with a finale that should be great fun to play!

I co-organize chamber recitals at a center for liberal arts in Oslo from time to time (when I'm there), and I will programm this piece in the next couple of months, perhaps even sooner.

Best,

Marcus

Marcus, please keep us posted. I'm really looking forward to hear this one.

It is anything like his film music at all?

I sure hope not.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If you were any other man I would kill you were you stand!

[Miguel Andrade 1,262]

If you were any other man I would kill you were you stand!

Well, leet me then rephrase... if it sound like Williams recent film music, I'm ok with it

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Urgh!

[King Mark 3,626]

It is anything like his film music at all?

I predict this one to be Williams most bleak concerto yet!