Heir to John Williams

[David Coscina 3]

Not that I'm speculating on Williams' passing or anything morbid like that. I'm just curious as to who everyone thinks is the heir to the throne of Mr. Williams in terms of overall musical ability for film composition.

I have a couple of ideas. One would be Danny Elfman. Of any composer who's come onto the scene, Elfman has demonstrated the largest growth compositionally- not that he was too bad out of the gates! Yes, he has a style that some people interpret as repetitive but Williams to be has signature sound which makes him...well, John Williams.

At one point, I thought Elliot Goldenthal was a real contender although he's kind of receded into the background choosing only film projects of his wife, Julie Taymor. But musically, Goldenthal is pretty up there.

I would say Howard Shore but honestly most of his scores work better in the film rather than apart from them- which is fine since he's a film composer, but Williams has that knack of creating scores that work as absolute music too. The Aviator is the one exception. I can listen to that for hours away from the film.

Hmmm, not sure who else. James Newton Howard has moments of true brilliance but he's not that consistent. His Shyamalan efforts yield the best results.

I like Michael Giacchino but he's still too young to really make that assertion.

Edward Shearmur was another promising composer but has practically gone underground. Hope he comes out with something awesome in the near future.

Any other suggestions???

[Greg1138 2]

Wasn't there a thread like this a couple of weeks ago?

David Arnold all the way....

[David Coscina 3]

Wasn't there a thread like this a couple of weeks ago?

David Arnold all the way....

I would have said Arnold after Stargate and Last of the Dogmen but he seems to have his own shtick and also relies heavily on Nicholas Dodd for his orchestral sound. Just listen to some of Dodd's own scores and you'll hear what I mean.

[Morlock 9]

Alexandre Desplat definitely comes to mind.

[Docteur Qui 1,248]

Giacchino. Young, talented, and Spielberg knows it.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Alexandre Desplat definitely comes to mind.

Danny Elfman certainly seems best positioned, but like someone mentioned, he's gotten repetitive and his scores aren't very memorable anymore.

James Newton Howard isn't "catchy" enough. He has some beautiful music, but in general, he is unable to create a truly great score all the way through.

I'd say John Powell. It's really early, but he's developing well past his MV era, he's one of the few composers who still uses grand themes and can create some beautiful music. His music needs to mature a bit, but I see that he has the best potential out there to be the next John Williams.

EDIT: I forgot David Arnold. He has some amazing music, and would by far be the most capable. But lately, he seems to have stopped making great works. All his amazing, great scores were in the past, and now he seems to be taking small, techno projects instead of grand orchestral music.

[Marcus 385]

No-one currently working in the film industry.

I think that film scoring as an art has become reduced, mostly, to mere sonic props, and the state of things will likely linger as such, with the odd exception, for years to come, at least in Hollywood.

But I do think we will see a new flow of classically trained composers with an interest in film scoring (and an interest in what Williams represents in terms of technical mastery), and in some more years, this will become more apparent also in the industry, and new talents will emerge, and provide a breath of fresh air to the by now very stagnant MV-type composer with only a fleeting and superficial knowledge of anything beyond pop-musical terrain.

[Morlock 9]

There are still terrific composers out there. And over the past decade, we've seen more and more composers who grew up on the classic 70's orchestral scores coming to prominance, and I'm sure we'll be seeing more and more of them, as film composing is becoming more and more valid an exercise, that is taught in music schools and conservatories.

I think that any generalizations about the death of film music are extremely premature, and a sign that people just aren't looking hard enough. Yared, Desplat, Elfman, Powell, Shore, Howard, Horner, Gregson-Williams, Giacchino, Newman (all three), Marienelli and others are still out there fighting the good fight, consistantly writing good film scores.

Of the above mentioned "heirs to Williams" (using the term very loosely)-

Elfman has been stuck in a rut, writing generally good Elfman scores, but far too much in the fantastical Elfman world. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Corpse Bride have terrific things to them, and work in the films, but still....it's good old Elfman. Last score I can think of that is different (yet still totally Elfman) is Red Dragon.

Arnold has been held back by his Bond scores....terrific scores, but we're not getting a complete picture of his talents there. I savor his not action-oriented scores, like Last of the Dogmen and the marvelous Stepford Wives.

And FA has a good point about Dodd- listening to some of his other work, it seems that he has a big part in the action sound of Arnold (it is possible that he is just emulating Arnold, but Arnold himself gives a whole lot of credit to Dodd). If I hadn't known it was scored by Mansell, I would have sworn Sahara was an Arnold score (Dodd was orchestrator on that one, and most probably he had even a bigger role than he does with Arnold's scores, as Mansell cannot read or write music).

Howard has been fantastic for a very long time, but it's been a few years since he's really had the 'wow' element in one of his scores. All the ones I've heard in the past few years are good, most of them make for fantastic albums, but the last time I was wowed was with The Village. Also, in some categories, he still sounds very much like Goldsmith (his action music in particular).

Powell is terrific, I've liked every single score of his that I've heard since 2002 or so. I think he just needs more time to show the full range of his talents (2006 was an excellent show of diversity on his part -four good scores in three very different genres, none of them in his most known action mode (which I think he's already proven how good he is at that).

Giacchino is great, he also just needs a whole lot more projects to show his full range.

Shearmur....I am not terribly impressed at this point. He had a good score with The Count of Monte Cristo, but aside from his theme to Laws of Attraction (or whatever was it called), I haven't really liked anything else I've heard. Sky Captain was far too derivative for my taste, and Johnny English was boring.

Goldenthal is fantastic, but, as FA pointed out, has been rather quiet recently. But the orchestral power of his scores is hard to argue with.

Shore scores typically display uncommon inteligence in their construction....not always the best listens (even though he has many of those), but rarely less than fascinating, and, even when they are, they are still effective and great fun, like The Departed.

[indy4 152]

As far as I've heard, the only composer that can change stlyes of music to keep up with Spielberg's films is Alan Silvestri. I mean he brought us Polar Express, Forrest Gump, Mousehunt, and The Back to the Future Trilogy.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

The concept of this thread is flawed. There can be, logically, no "heir to John Williams".

Unless... who is Williams heir to, again?

[Romão 1,931]

In terms of raw talent, I would say Elliot Goldenthal is probably the next best thing.

[Morlock 9]

The concept of this thread is flawed. There can be, logically, no "heir to John Williams".

Unless... who is Williams heir to, again?

God, naturally.

[bondo 33]

My picks:

Michael Giacchino

James Newton Howard

Joel McNeely

John Debney

Make no mistake, they each have their own style. But they are all equally adept at continuing a similar orchestral style that Williams does.

[fommes 126]

David Arnold it is.

[JoeinAR 1,759]

Giacchino. Young, talented, and Spielberg knows it.

more like young and untalented.

[Morlock 9]

He is nothing like Chris Young. I an unfamiliar with the work of Mr./Ms. Untalented, so I can't judge.

John Debney

Make no mistake, they each have their own style.

HA!

[Mooz0r 23]

I'd have to say Edward Shearmur. Or, maybe, Don Davis.

[Luke Skywalker 1,284]

The concept of this thread is flawed. There can be, logically, no "heir to John Williams".

Unless... who is Williams heir to, again?

John Williams Sr. of course

And John Williams Jr. heir is Joseph Williams

Why do we have to ask this ever few months

[King Mark 2,924]

there will be no other JW.Were just lucky to live in the same century he did

[oierem 87]

there will be no other JW.Were just lucky to live in the same century he did

His music will remain even when he's gone. That's the great thing of being a composer. You have a legacy of your work.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

The concept of this thread is flawed. There can be, logically, no "heir to John Williams".

Unless... who is Williams heir to, again?

God, naturally.

Okay, that came out wrong. My point was, "no self-respecting artist can logically be an 'heir' to anybody else", and the mere question contradicts the definition of "style" and "artistic freedom".

Unless we're dealing with a liberal definition of "heir", hence the question.

... God I'm bored these days.

[Miguel Andrade 964]

The concept of this thread is flawed. There can be, logically, no "heir to John Williams".

Unless... who is Williams heir to, again?

God, naturally.

Okay, that came out wrong. My point was, "no self-respecting artist can logically be an 'heir' to anybody else", and the mere question contradicts the definition of "style" and "artistic freedom".

Unless we're dealing with a liberal definition of "heir", hence the question.

... God I'm bored these days.

I agree with Ross. There can't be a heir to any artist, even more if one's of this stature.

[Pieter Boelen 633]

Alan Silvestri and James Newton Howard are both pretty good contenders. John Debney can write truly amazing music (Cutthroat Island), but he doesn't frequently do it. Of course he never got another project of the same size.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,064]

James Newton Howard is just waiting in line to be the next best thing. Williams is in the way.

[Datameister 1,394]

James Newton Howard has put forth some truly fantastic stuff on projects of far less filmographic significance than Star Wars or E.T. or Jaws. As a result, his efforts aren't very well-known outside film score fandom, but a lot of it is quite well-written. Some of it sounds very derivative to me--his action music is often extraordinarily fun, but other times it sounds like poor imitation of Williams' action writing. I've heard entire scores of his that consistently disappointed me with their unoriginality. (Lady in the Water comes to mind...how many eons will pass before i - VI - III - V dies?) But then there are other Howard scores that blow my mind from start to finish, such as King Kong. "The Egg Travels" from Dinosaur still ranks among my very favorite cues of all time. It has few rivals in terms of sheer beauty and scope.

John Williams won't exactly have an heir, because each era of music brings new issues and social developments. Williams is a fantastic composer--his success isn't a product of good luck--but part of the reason he's as big as he is is the fact that he was in the right place at the right time. Star Wars was filmed right at a key point in history, when the big leitmotivic orchestral score was ready to make a comeback if it were written well and if it accompanied a film of big enough popularity. Williams was perfect for Star Wars, and vice versa. Without that stroke of good fortune, Williams might never have become quite as big a name as he has. Anyway, things will be different for the next generation of film composers. Already Maestro Williams' current work is sinking to obscurity in popular culture, replaced mainly by the MV/RCP gang. Sadly enough, their music is widely revered these days, which is why that style of scoring isn't on its deathbed yet. I'm convinced that unless a huge new film comes out with a fantastic traditional score, the type of score that Williams wrote and writes won't be able to make a comeback until the MV movement runs its course and eventually dies.

[Red 73]

As to who would be the most successful after John, I guess James Newton Howard would be my choice.

But really, there will never be another John Williams. He is a one of a kind, and has something that no one can attain.

[David Coscina 3]

Yeah, Goldenthal certainly has the most compositional chops of the bunch, although Sheamur is pretty good too.

[Morlock 9]

Where has Shearmur shown his chops?

[Neimoidian 13]

I also agree there is little chance to find out somebody on the level of JW. What makes JW "the JW' is not only a talent and this strike of fortune that Datameister mentioned, but also 50 years of experience and about 30-something in a peak & near-to-peak form. Most of the composers write many decent scores, but very few great ones. The most accomplished thesedays have probably something about 10 peak-level works. And what about JW? He has way more than 10. What others hardly achieve, he does on regular basis. There is no way of finding him a heir. Not yet. Maybe in 30 years when look back and see whether either Hans Zimmer or James N. Howard, or Shore, or Giacchino, Powell and others are still working and being on top. If so, then we'll have an answer.

[indy4 152]

The concept of this thread is flawed. There can be, logically, no "heir to John Williams".Unless... who is Williams heir to, again?

God, naturally.

Okay, that came out wrong. My point was, "no self-respecting artist can logically be an 'heir' to anybody else", and the mere question contradicts the definition of "style" and "artistic freedom".Unless we're dealing with a liberal definition of "heir", hence the question.... God I'm bored these days.

I agree with Ross. There can't be a heir to any artist, even more if one's of this stature.

I think the point of this topic is just to determine the one who is second best in film scoring. But I agree that nobody in the world, living or dead, could ever top JW. Sometimes, it just amazes me how he can adapt to different styles, but make them as beautiful, frightening, sad, happy, etc... as he wants to.

What makes JW "the JW' is not only a talent and this strike of fortune that Datameister mentioned, but also 50 years of experience and about 30-something in a peak & near-to-peak form.

An his amazing ability to score literally ANY type of film superbly.

[John Crichton 4]

No one, for the same reasons Mr. Lewis stated.

Now that aside, I'm glad Arnold is getting some mentions, I love him too but he just doesn't work enough (or get enough offers). He needs a new big, non-Bond gig in the worst way. Personally I think Giacchino has a very high celing, time will tell.

[Eric_JWFAN 11]

No one really qualifies at the moment, but if I had to pick a couple it would be James Newton Howard or Alan Silvestri.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,064]

Where has Shearmur shown his chops?

Wings of the Dove

The Count of Monte Cristo

Reign of Fire

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow

[Morlock 9]

Haven't heard the first or third..what are they like?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,064]

Complete opposites, one's very romantic/dramatic music, the other is one brutally harsh action extravaganza. Think along the lines of Goldenthal when he's at orchestral frenzy peak.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

There are few who have any real chance of replacing John Williams to score Steven Spielberg films. The top 3 composers I think have a real chance are: Hans Zimmer, Alan Silvestri, or Michael Giacchino.

I know most John Williams fans hate Hans Zimmer, but look at it logically. Spielberg loved his music to Crimson Tide, and that was the reason why Zimmer is in control over DreamWorks Animation. Every animated movie from DreamWorks is done by a Remote Control composer.

"One of his biggest fans (after first hearing Crimson Tide) is director and producer Steven Spielberg, whose friendship and loyalty toward John Williams is perhaps the only reason why Zimmer has not become a regular for Spielberg-directed films."

Source: Trivia from Zimmer's IMDb (I know it's not a great source but it helps prove my point.)

Jeff Katzenburg also loves Zimmer.

I say Alan Silvestri because of Spielberg's good frienship with Robert Zemeckis. I don't really like all of Silvestri's work, but he is a real candidate for replacing Williams.

Michael Giacchino may have a slim chance but he seems to new to the film score business to start with Spielberg. I loved his music to the Medal Of Honor series, seems Spielberg made the best choice of choosing him for the job.

Here is a link for an interview with Giacchino about Medal Of Honor: http://www.tracksounds.com/specialfeatures...interviewmg.htm

He talks about John Williams and Steven Spielberg and even mentions working for Spielberg someday.

I want to include James Newton Howard to the list but I don't ever see him having any real connection to Spielberg. Howard is one of my favorite composers, he creates interesting unique sounds that are really special for its respective film.

[Datameister 1,394]

What makes JW "the JW' is not only a talent and this strike of fortune that Datameister mentioned, but also 50 years of experience and about 30-something in a peak & near-to-peak form.

Very true, though keep in mind that his initial good fortune has opened up a lot of doors for him in more recent years. These things are kind of exponential. I mean, while I strongly contend that John Williams has enough talent and experience to make him deserve at least as much attention as he gets, you have to realize that he wouldn't have been so successful without his initial good luck.

[Breakfast Jim 0]

Christopher Gordon

[Datameister 1,394]

Qui est-ce?

[AC1 3,565]

Heir to John Williams, right now, who would it be?

No one. He's the last king.

Alex

[judicator 0]

well JW was certainly a successor to Erich Korngold, William Walton, Max Steiner, Bernard Herrmann and the like!

[vmw331 2]

It will be impossible to match JW's talent and skill level, therefore, I don't see any of the composers at this time replacing Williams. Of course it will be easy for Spielberg to work with Giacchino or Silvestri or any of the others mentioned before, but no one will be able to have as big of an impact on a Spielberg film or any film for that matter the way that Williams did.

The difference between Williams and all of the other composers today is the fact that JW turns out consistenly good music that works excellent with all the films he has scored and even most of his soundtrack albums are a great listening experience on their own. No other film composer has the ability to consistently compose excellent music.

Yeah, JW got a few lucky breaks to become widely know at an early age with Jaws and Star Wars, but if he hadn't scored those films, he has still composed a ton of amazing scores since then that totally blow away any other film composer's work today.

I would think that Silvestri would be up there in recognition of the best composer after JW because of his ability to change genres and almost consistently compose amazing music that works in film and seperate from film. Of course, Silvestri still doesn't even come close to matching JW or his impact on film and film music, but he is the guy to go to if you want that sort of quality and consistency.

One problem with Silvestri is his age....he's getting old. So if there was going to be a true "heir" to the film music "throne," then one of the new, young composers will have to rise to the occasion. As of now, there are a ton of decent composers that have scored a few films of good quality but the rest is crap or repetitive of what was done before, either by themselves or a ripoff of someone else. Arnold, Goldenthal, Badelt, Tyler, Davis, etc. of the younger generation have had good scores, but nothing is consistent. Horner, Zimmer, and others are decent but they consistently repeat themselves and that diminishes the quality of their work. Even Elfman has been repeating some of his "original" quality stuff, like Edward Scissorhands, but his pop and rock music background make him feel like an odd type of composer to replace Williams. It seems that his style would not be something to hold in high regards and emulate like many composers try to emulate JW.

Hopefully the "heir" to JW will sound like JW and not Elfman or Zimmer!!

[David Coscina 3]

If Spielberg begins working with Zimmer after Williams retires or passes (heaven forbid) than that will officially mark the end of my respect for the man. Not that I despise Zimmer but his heavy-handed approach toward LAst Samurai really hurt much of that film. On a side note, even though I revile Horner's plagiarism, I would have much prefered Zwick to have used him on that project. He FINALLY would have had a viable excuse to use that damned shakuhachi!

[Salacius 7]

No-one currently working in the film industry.

I think that film scoring as an art has become reduced, mostly, to mere sonic props, and the state of things will likely linger as such, with the odd exception, for years to come, at least in Hollywood.

But I do think we will see a new flow of classically trained composers with an interest in film scoring (and an interest in what Williams represents in terms of technical mastery), and in some more years, this will become more apparent also in the industry, and new talents will emerge, and provide a breath of fresh air to the by now very stagnant MV-type composer with only a fleeting and superficial knowledge of anything beyond pop-musical terrain.

100% Agree with you Marcus. I have been feeling the same way for a long time about the state of film scoring

[Morlock 9]

Not that I despise Zimmer but his heavy-handed approach toward LAst Samurai really hurt much of that film.

Come on, it's an Ed Zwick film. Heavy-handed is a must. It's not like the film was subtle.

[MSM 85]

I'd have to say Edward Shearmur. Or, maybe, Don Davis.

Good choices. I'd say:

1) Michael Convertino

2) Edward Shearmur

3) Brian Tyler

Since David Arnold hasn't produced a decent orchestral score since Independence Day (which was brilliant) he's of the list for me.

However Williams of course will be unsurpassed for decennia, maybe for centuries to come.

[Morlock 9]

The fact that you have not heard it does not mean that he has not produced a decent orchestral score.

[MSM 85]

The fact that you have not heard it does not mean that he has not produced a decent orchestral score.

I am sorry, I think you don't understand me correctly, Morlock. In my opinion, David Arnold hasn't produced any good scores since Independence Day.

[Morlock 9]

Have you heard The Stepford Wives or Tomorrow Never Dies?

[MSM 85]

Have you heard The Stepford Wives or Tomorrow Never Dies?

The Stepford Wives, no. I'm sorry I didn't know it was his. Tomorrow Never Dies I didn't like. I actually don't like any of his Bond Scores. They're too massive, too much electronical, too themeless and too harmonically unskillfully written/orchestrated. Too bland in short. The rich orchestrations, the nicely worked out counterpoints and the rousing themes of Independence Day I miss.