The Official CLASSICAL Thread

[Saxbabe 28]

Been meaning to start this for a while...ever since I happened to run into two fellow JWFANs blindly on other music communities due to a common interest in contemporary and classical music in general, obviously a lot of us here also really like this music which has been such an influence to film music, and now is even influenced by film music.

So here we can discuss all things classical, composers, eras, works, recordings, recommendations, concert experiences - anything! I know a few of us here are musicians in orchestras themselves or play classical regularly which is also neat to hear about. Band or "wind ensemble" music can fall under the auspices of this thread, something many of us in the States are or have been involved in.

Something else that might also be fun is to recommend some works that film music lovers exploring classical would like. (Steef, I promise we can think of some gooood ones.) I know that some of my very favorite stuff currently has been recommended to me by fellow JWFans!

I guess I'll start with some favorites by era:

Baroque: Vivaldi, Bach, Handel

Classical: Haydn (love!), Rossini, Mozart, Clementi

Romantic: (an era with a lot of influence on film music)

Early:

Beethoven, Schubert, Berlioz, Mendelssohn, WAGNER

Middle/Later:

Bruckner, Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky (huge favorite), Dvorak, Rimsky-Koraskov

Turn of the Century (arguably my favorite period, all of these I adore):

Mahler, Sibelius, Strauss (Richard), Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Ravel, Debussy, and on, and on...Charles Ives, Percy Grainger, Malcolm Arnold

20th Century (another hugely important period for film music):

Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Prokofiev... Bartok, Barber, Schoenberg, Hindemith...this could get long...Gershwin, Copland, Bernstein of course...lots of different styles

Contemporary/Modern Classical (almost needs a separate thread):

Older: Olivier Messiaen, Gyorgy Ligeti, Witold Lutoslawski, Einojuhani Rautavaara - cool "out there" stuff - Luciano Berio, Pierre Boulez, Elliot Carter, Karlheinz Stockhausen

Newer: Have to go with easy on the ears here, these are highly recommended for any film music lover and some have written film scores -

Phillip Glass, John Corigliano, Michael Nyman, Steve Reich...the next work as sort of "group", colorful is the best description here - John Adams, Richard Danielpour, Christopher Rouse, Esa-Pekka Salonen, Magnus Lindberg, Kaija Saariaho, Peteris Vasks, Michael Torke, Michael Daugherty, Christopher Theofanidis, Jennifer Higdon

And lastly:

Wind Ensemble: Johan De Meij, Eric Whitacre, Philip Sparke, Ron Nelson, Frank Ticheli, John Mackey, David Gillingham...the Karel Husa stuff is amazing

Whew, good for a start, will mention some favorite works later! Anyone else also count these among some of their favorites?

[Romão 2,274]

I had been thinking of opening a thread like this as well

I can't say I'm really an expert on any Classical composer, but I must say everything I've heard from Wagner, Korsakov or Prokofiev has taken by breath away.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I only care for: Beethoven, Tschaikovsky, Prokofiev, Wagner, Stravinsky, Adolphe Adams (you didn't list him, shame on you!), and Holst.

The three Russian composers I mentioned were supreme to all the other classical composers in every sense.

I have yet to be bored with anything by Tschaikovsky, Prokofiev, or Stravinsky.

[Red 75]

The more modern stuff has always appealed to me. However, you really can't go wrong with Mozart or Beethoven, with the latter composing arguably the best piece of all time ("Ode to Joy").

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm not too familiar with classical music, but I love Bethoven, Mozart, Bach, Tchaikovsky, Caruso, etc. Basically anything used in a Woody Allen film, that man has good taste.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I have a select few recordings I enjoy: Holst's The Planets (Jupiter is awesome), Coplan's Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, and Billy the Kid, Schubert's 8th and 9th (I love the use of the former in Minority Report).

As far as band music goes, one piece we played in high school I really liked was Frank Tichel's beautiful "An American Elegy," inspired by the Columbine tragedy. Ticheli actually came to our school to rehearse with us for a day, but I was on vacation at the time. I hear he was a bit strange.

And speaking of band music, does anyone else dislike Sousa as much as I do? He's so overrated, and extremely tedious to play (especially as a horn player). The community band I recently joined is currently rehearsing for a Sousa-dominated concert. Which means I get upbeats for 45 minutes straight. But we're closing the concert with Jupiter from The Planets, which significantly redeems the program!

Ray Barnsbury

[Admiral Holdo 16]

I second Ray; Jupiter (and The Planets in general) is in the top 10 classical compositions of all time.

Anything with a good amount of disonnance and anti-melody is A-OK is my book.

[Trent B 337]

While Classical isn't my favorite type of music but my dad has quite a few classical CD's. I might rip those onto my hard drive and check em' out.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I second Ray; Jupiter (and The Planets in general) is in the top 10 classical compositions of all time.

Anything with a good amount of disonnance and anti-melody is A-OK is my book.

I forgot to mention Holst. The Planets are definitely at the top. My favorite would be Mars, who would guess coming from a HZ fan.

[Romão 2,274]

My favorite movements are actually Saturn and Uranus.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The only thing I like by Bach is that Fugue thing. *Thunder*

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Speaking of which... could someone explain to me what a fugue is? There's a track on Trek IV called 'Whale Fugue' but I thought it was a waltz.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Don't know the technical definition but I've always thought of it as cascading music...repeat ideas in new form....and go back to mood of the beginning or go out with a bang.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yeah, I think it introuduces a theme, then passes it to another section of the orchestra as a new theme is presented, and so on.

Ray Barnsbury

[TheDarkOrb 0]

II Air.

[Saxbabe 28]

Lot of replies already...some of it with classical is just getting a chance to hear works by certain composers, you end up liking things you wouldn't have expected. The radio, YouTube, those are good places to explore. I haven't gone wrong with anything recommended to me by my fellow board friends, obviously JWFans seem to have good taste!

The thing is, "classical" isn't necessarily either stuffy "long-haired" or odd avant-garde stuff anymore, the newer contemporary music tends to be very fun and filmic, and influenced by jazz and film music and a million other things these days.

Basically just get out and dive in, the worst that can happen you don't like something, but you can really hit upon some rewarding things.

Film music and classical from the last century go hand in hand - depending on what scores you like, it's easy to think of some classical you would probably also enjoy....

I didn't listen to much Mahler, Strauss, and Bruckner, until recently because I thought oh, they are difficult, but I found that far, far from the case, their works are just long.

All three, their brass writing was huge and impressive, dramatic, highly recommended for film music lovers. You know the fanfare thing from 2001, that's called Also Sprach Zarathustra and there's a whole piece that goes with that, about 20 more minutes worth, which is just fantastic.

Bruckner and Mahler on full blast would rival any action score, and it's gorgeous, massive stuff, which can be very dramatic and emotional.

There are just a lot of touchpoints to use as somewhere to start if classical is something you'd like to get more into. For example, The Village is influenced by Vaughan Wiliams's violin writing to my ears, and Signs uses minimalist techniques (use of the one repeated motif) that reminds me of Phillip Glass.

Also you have to remember that films are even commonly temped with classical music, so the similarities are sometimes intended - there is a cue in SW (someone like Neil could elaborate) that is very Rite of Spring-ish, for example.

Herrmann was influenced a lot by the modernist atonal techniques of his day and synthesized this with romanticism and his own compositional ideas, which makes him quite fascinating. Bartok, Hindemith and others, really cutting edge modern writing.

Shostakovich, Stravinsky, and Prokofiev, are big precursors of action music, with lots of rhythmic drive and just great writing, turn to Messiaen's Turangalila Symphonie for some sci-fi type writing, and some late Penderecki, Symphony No. 2 definitely a good one. Brassy, anguished, total drama.

Also very enjoyable are of course the recent cases of classical influenced very much by film music, many big colorful brilliantly orchestrated pieces from the early 90s onward. Michael Daugherty and Richard Danielpour come to mind as the first to mention there, I promise, if you like film music, you would like their orchestral pieces. I'm currently in love with Toward the Splendid City, it is just incredible. Also Urban Dances is a lot of fun. For Daugherty, try Metropolis Symphony, based on Superman, the story that is.

A few others, John Adams is maybe the best known living American composer right now, and really a master, I know some here are also fans, his music is wonderful. He has been influenced by jazz, pop, etc and is a must-listen. Very accessible, but also a lot going on in his music. Almost anything of his is awesome. Esa-Pekka Salonen has been influenced by Adams, but since conducting the LA Phil for a long time has picked up a healthy dose of sci-fi and action type writing with a lot of rhythmic drive, also a familiar name for the great disc of Herrmann music they did. LA Variations and Wing on Wing both great discs, I prefer marginally the latter. Michael Torke is influenced by jazz, and Beethoven, and also John Adams, his Color Music is very exciting and catchy.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sorry, we already have a thread for this.

What's next, is Ska gonna get it's own thread here too now?

[Saxbabe 28]

Very funny, Steef!

[oierem 152]

Good thread! Lot to talk about, so I don't quite know where to begin.

It is curious, however, that a lot of people here seems to enjoy Stravinsky, Wagner, Mahler... Don't take me wrong, I obviously like all of them, since I love classical music in general. It just seems odd that you like this kind of music, which is really hard to listen. (but it is true that they had a lot of influence in film scores and in Williams).

I happen to enjoy Baroque or Classical music (meaning 18th century) a lot. It is simple, natural, but really enjoyable. Bach is great, and so is Händel, Mozart... and Beethoven. I have to admit, I love Beethoven with real passion. And almost all composers from the 19th and early 20th century.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Very funny, Steef!

No really, what is next, a thread dedicated to the music of Babyshambles?

[Greg1138 3]

I'm not really a fan of ay particular classical composer(s), I jus know what I like to hear.....my list of favourite classical pieces is endless (The Planets, Bolero, Mendelsshon Violin Concerto, 1812, Enigma Variations, all of the Pomp and Circumstance marches, Haydn's Trumpet Concerto, Marriage of Figaro - not just the overture!, the complete Lohengrin, Leonora, Pictures at an Exhibition and so on and so on.....), but particular composers? Not really....

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

My favorite movements are actually Saturn and Uranus.

At least, they're among my favourites. But they'll always stand in the shadow of Mars and Jupiter as far as popularity goes - just like most people probably only know O Fortuna from Carmina Burana and the opening of Also sprach Zarathustra.

A fugue is one of the most complex forms in music. It basically works by having one instrument group play the main theme, and then, when it goes into the second section of that theme, another group picks up the first part (only transposed), and so on. There's fugues with two themes as well. Check out the Kyrie from Mozart's Requiem, for example. Mind-boggling.

Greta, since you've mentioned Daugherty... is there any recording of Hell's Angels easily available? It's the only thing I've heard by him so far, and live, too - I loved it. But all I have is my rather crude radio recording of the broadcast a few days later. I've been meaning to check out the Metropolis Symphony for years.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Venus is actually my favorite part of The Planets. Works even better when you play Mars in front of it (as you should).

[Romão 2,274]

I've planning on buying the Symphonie Fantastique, but I'm a bit torn between two recordings: the Colin Davies one with the Concertgebouwn Orchestra Amsterdam or the Pierre Boulez version with the Cleveland Orchestra. Any pointers?

[oierem 152]

Venus is actually my favorite part of The Planets. Works even better when you play Mars in front of it (as you should).

I think the "incorrect" order of the movements (they don't match the order of the planets) is meant to match with the movements of a traditional symphony (Mars-allegro, Venus-slow 2nd movement, Mercury-scherzo and Jupiter-vivace finale).

Btw, has anyone heard the recording of "The Planets" by John Williams. I wonder how good is it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I've not heard it, but it's not supposed to be very good.

Hardly surprising, since it's the Boston Pops.

[Romão 2,274]

It's alright, but there much better versions out there.

Herrmann's recording, for example, is trully dreadful.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

It's alright, but there much better versions out there.

Herrmann's recording, for example, is trully dreadful.

ins't dreadful a negative adjective?

[Romão 2,274]

Yes it is, and I meant what I wrote

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

well it didnt match with the previous statement

[Romão 2,274]

What do you mean, Manuel? I wrote that the Williams version was alright and that Herrmann's was awful...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

You said there were better versions, but then gave one that was worse as an example.

It is not logical!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[Romão 2,274]

Indeed, it is not, my bad

[indy4 155]

Only classical piece I REALLY REALLY like (not counting JW, of course), is Danse Mecabre.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Does John Williams even write classical music? In the correct sense of the word I mean?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Does it look like indy4 is using the correct sense of the word to you?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Frankly I give Indy4's post little more than a fleeting glance

[Omen II 1,235]

I've planning on buying the Symphonie Fantastique, but I'm a bit torn between two recordings: the Colin Davies one with the Concertgebouwn Orchestra Amsterdam or the Pierre Boulez version with the Cleveland Orchestra. Any pointers?

I have not heard the latter, but can recommend the Colin Davis version with the Royal Concertgebouw (1974 recording, but still available on CD). He's recorded it since with the LSO too.

[oierem 152]

Does John Williams even write classical music? In the correct sense of the word I mean?

Yes, he does.

Well, classical music can also mean a concrete period between 1750-1820 aprox. (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven...). The classical style of classical music. Sort of

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, that's what I mean.

John Williams has written concert music, not classical music, right?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'd agree with that.

- Marc, who has heard hardly any of Williams' concert pieces.

[oierem 152]

Yes, that's what I mean.

John Williams has written concert music, not classical music, right?

??? If we don't include John Williams in the "classical music" definition, we shouldn't include Bach, Wagner, Mahler, Holst, Stravinsky, Schumann...

If with classical music we refer to non-modern music in general, then yes, Williams is a classical composer.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I'm not following you.

[Romão 2,274]

Wiilliams is a Classic music composers, but he hardly writes in the Classical style. I guess...

[oierem 152]

Classical music can mean two different things. (from the wikipedia)

-All traditions associated with high culture as opposed to popular or folk forms. See List of classical music styles.

-A particular stage in the development of the Western music tradition, centered in the late 18th century. See Classical period (music).

According to the first deffinition, Williams' concert works are classical music. Besides, some people (myself included) agree that film music can also be considered classical music. It doesn't matter the medium you write for (could be a film, an opera, an orchestral piece of music...), it only matter what you write. And JW writes classical music. No doubt about it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Arent Williams more famous score (Star Wars etc...) written in the Romantic, not the Classical iodom?

Also, Film music is media music, not classical music. A distinction Williams himself made, and one I support.

[Romão 2,274]

Film music is incidental music, which itself is part of classical music, I think. Anyway, they are just categories, they really don't matter much...

[oierem 152]

Arent Williams more famous score (Star Wars etc...) written in the Romantic, not the Classical iodom?

Also, Film music is media music, not classical music. A distinction Williams himself made, and one I support.

Romantic, Classical, Baroque,.. all are different styles of the western music tradition, in general (see the second deffinition). When we talk about classical music, normaly we are including all this different styles in it.

About film music... It can be considered media music, but also has al the ingredients to be considered classical music. It's not popular music, not folk music. And film music uses the language of classical music

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Film music is incidental music, which itself is part of classical music,

But then all music is classical music, which cannot be true.

Also film music that employ more modern types of music like pop, jazz, synth etc...can not be classical music.