indy4 152 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 I've noticed this issue with me several times. Most of my favorite movies: Star Wars saga, E.T., LOTR trilogy, Indiana Jones trilogy, and Jurassic Park all have scores that are some of my favorites. Then, taking it a step further, many of my favorite movie series correspond with their score in preference. For example, my favorite LOTR movies AND scores both go ROTK, TT, FotR. Same for Indiana Jones: LC, Raiders, ToD. For Star Wars, my favorite movie and score is Empire Strikes Back. Beyond that, I have troubling deciding a second favorite. All I know is that AotC would be in last place (that's my least favorite score from SW, as well), and RotS would be high up (one of my favorite scores from SW).Then, taking it a step further, we could talk about scenes. There was a while when I was hooked on the scene in Jurassic Park when Dennis steal the embryoes. I was also fascinated with the track "Dennis Steals the Embryoes." My favorite scene in ROTK is when Rohan's army comes to the aid of Gondor. That's also one of my favorite tracks from the movie. In E.T., my favorite scene is the bike chase and when E.T. goes home. That's also my favorite cue from the movie.This does not happen for all scores--only my favorites. I think all my favorite scores and movies would still be my favorites if seperated from each other, but I think one of them is influenced by the other. Anybody else experiance this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,064 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 It's absolutely essential. Having no frame of reference for what the film music is for, is like reading Beowulf as modern literature, and that's just simply put: stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST-321 4 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 It's absolutely essential. Having no frame of reference for what the film music is for, is like reading Beowulf as modern literature, and that's just simply put: stupid.Then I guess I am stupid as I have many scores for films that I have never seen and have no intention of seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 1,931 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Not at all. I reckon I've watched maybe 30% of the movies for which the scores that I own were written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle 0 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 It's absolutely essential.Jerry Goldsmith's filmography begs to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,064 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 When you realize what his scores did for his "differing filmography" you'll gain an even stronger appreciation of what he was writing.Then I guess I am stupid as I have many scores for films that I have never seen and have no intention of seeing.Good good! Admitting your problems is the first step, soon you will have intentions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 44 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Music is absolute. Good music should have a life outside of the medium for which it was created, otherwise it's nothing more than background "elevator" music. How many people enjoy Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker? Now, how many people have seen the ballet? There are many film scores that exist just fine on a purely musical level. Seeing the film cannot alter whether or not the music is good in itself, it can only demonstrate how well it works within the medium for which it was written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Music is absolute. Nevertheless good film music does not perse has to function well outside of the film it was written for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC1 3,565 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Very wise words from Pixie and Stefancos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wycket 36 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Well, I think its silly to think that enjoying a movie is necessary to enjoy its score. If you love a movie, will you gain a greater appreciation for its' music? That is very likely.But I know I have multiple soundtracks to movies that I absolutely dislike, but I enjoy there score enough to own it. I do know also that my favorite movie is On Her Majesty's Secret Service, and John Barry's terrific score is also in my top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 73 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 The score and its' film complement each other. Neither one would be as good without the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 What is this talk of the films mattering as much as the music? Nonsense. The Fury sucks compared to the score. Never saw the film until at least 10 years after I listened to it. It was one of my favorite soundtracks without giving a crap about whatever visions DePalma brought to screen. I am very glad I let the music exist without the film in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,095 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I actually enjoy scores better without seeing the movie. Even though this is a rare occurrence, I do have some scores for which I have not seen the film. Requiem For A Dream, for example, I would probably not enjoy as much if I saw the film.The reason behind this is that, for me, the music is more adaptable. I listen to Requiem while I write, it's very inspiring and it's almost like I'm writing a novel that fits the music, rather than being stuck with the image of the film along with the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,064 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I am an idiot, my idea was watching a movie may help you enjoy a score. Well you don't have to necessarily enjoy the movie to enjoy the score. However, experiencing the movie will still give you another layer of context that will help in your enjoyment of a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I used to always try to see the movie for a score so I would understand the context that it was written for, but as my collection's grown this has become virtually impossible. Still I always like to see the film if at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,248 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I am an idiot, my idea was watching a movie may help you enjoy a score. Well you don't have to necessarily enjoy the movie to enjoy the score. However, experiencing the movie will still give you another layer of context that will help in your enjoyment of a movie.I'm absolutely with you Blumenkohl. I've never been able to truly appreciate a score (or truly dislike it) until I know its context. I can still enjoy the music, yes, and there are scores I enjoy though I haven't seen the films (Close Encounters and Jaws 2 spring to mind). But all of my favourite scores, and what I would consider the "best" film scores are those I've experienced in their true capacity; i.e. as part of a film.Heck, there are scores that I wouldn't bother buying or listening to twice had I not seen the film or been immersed in its inspiration. Star Trek: First Contact, The Lord of the Rings trilogy, Casino Royale... It's a big list.The same thing happens when I consider most of the western musical repertoire. I'm not able to enjoy most music until I study the context of a work, periodically and compositionally, and the composer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 152 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 I am an idiot, my idea was watching a movie may help you enjoy a score. Well you don't have to necessarily enjoy the movie to enjoy the score. However, experiencing the movie will still give you another layer of context that will help in your enjoyment of a movie.I'm absolutely with you Blumenkohl. I've never been able to truly appreciate a score (or truly dislike it) until I know its context. I can still enjoy the music, yes, and there are scores I enjoy though I haven't seen the films (Close Encounters and Jaws 2 spring to mind). But all of my favourite scores, and what I would consider the "best" film scores are those I've experienced in their true capacity; i.e. as part of a film.Heck, there are scores that I wouldn't bother buying or listening to twice had I not seen the film or been immersed in its inspiration. Star Trek: First Contact, The Lord of the Rings trilogy, Casino Royale... It's a big list.The same thing happens when I consider most of the western musical repertoire. I'm not able to enjoy most music until I study the context of a work, periodically and compositionally, and the composer.I agree with both of you. It's almost a shame--I had to endure movies like A.I., Empire of the Sun, 1941, Cutthroat Island, and more. But I think it's still worth it.The score and its' film complement each other. Neither one would be as good without the other.That's the type of answer I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,064 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 How many people enjoy Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker? Now, how many people have seen the ballet? As for something like the Nutcracker....You have not truly listened to the Nutcracker if you have not seen the ballet.End of story. You can try to argue otherwise, but you are just in the Nile.Seeing the film cannot alter whether or not the music is good in itself,Contextualizing what you are experiencing can indeed very strongly alter your perception of that experience. That's just how science says the brain works. So again:You can try to argue otherwise, but you are just in the Nile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,759 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 liking the film that a score goes too in not essential, however the level of enjoyment is enhanced when you do enjoy the film, there is simply no way that a score that you love of a film you love cannot give you even more pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,064 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Joey speaks wisdom once again. Listen to the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 152 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 liking the film that a score goes too in not essential, however the level of enjoyment is enhanced when you do enjoy the film, there is simply no way that a score that you love of a film you love cannot give you even more pleasure.Vice versa, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,064 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Though not nearly as often for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 152 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 Well, it may not make the movie watching a pleasurable experiance, but it certainly doesn't hurt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 9 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Wow....I find myself in agreement (in general) with Blumenkhol and Joe. The qualities of a film and it's score are not mutually exclusive. However, in general, a great movie will have a good score (speaking of how well it supports the film, not necasserily how it plays on it's own), as if it's not at least an effective score, the movie will be harmed and cannot be great. I find, that in general, there are very few scores to my favorite movies that I do not like. In some cases, I'm sure I like the music more because of the film. In others, I'd like to think that I like the film more because of the music. Ignoring the concept of the film would be (IMO) entirely missing the point of film-music. Has nothing to do with quality, nor even if one has seen the film (although, for myself, seeing a film is a critical part in truely appreciating a great film score). But concidering film-music entirely as music that came solely out of the composer's mind, without concideration of what the composer's goal was, is both overestimating the medium and not doing credit to the composers. These composers are not free to reach the self-expression achieved in the concert world, but, on the other hand, have such an awesome task in writing music that will A. support and enhance the film, B. (hopefully) work as a piece of music when separated from the film, C. satisfy the artistic pangs of the composers, and all of this while having to deal with all the hugely daunting technical aspects of film scoring. Film-music is a unique art-form, one artform (music) applied to another (film). To treat it only as a part of filmmaking would be underrating it, and to treat it solely as music would be misunderstanding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Let's face it. Most of the time, if a score is good, the movie is not as good. Most of the time, a movie downgrades a good score. In those rare instances when the movie and score are great, it is a great thing. Most JW scores and Goldsmith Scores are better than the movies for which they accompany. I only watch the movies I really have interest in. Eventually I see most of the movies to the scores I love, but many times it is a very bad experience, because I can not fully wash my mind of the crap that was on screen.Regarding Ballet, each production is so different, there is no way you can say that you need to see the dancing and costumes to experience the music. Just no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 44 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Spoken like a gentleman and a scholar, Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 2,082 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Not essential, but it can help in some cases. JNH's The Lookout and Freedomland in particular got listened to a lot more after I'd seen both movies. I'm also not quite as into Star Wars as some because I've only seen ep IV and half of ep V, and have never made it through eps I or II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 What is this talk of the films mattering as much as the music? Nonsense. The Fury sucks compared to the score. Never saw the film until at least 10 years after I listened to it. It was one of my favorite soundtracks without giving a crap about whatever visions DePalma brought to screen. I am very glad I let the music exist without the film in my mind.But there is also music which are difficult listens but work great in the film itsef...Black Hawk Down (though some may beg to differ) for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 388 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 480 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 liking the film that a score goes too in not essential, however the level of enjoyment is enhanced when you do enjoy the film, there is simply no way that a score that you love of a film you love cannot give you even more pleasure.I completely agree.Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,251 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 No.I miss you Hlao-roo.I mean, for real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,284 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I agree with both statements:You dont have to see a film to enjoy film musicSeeing the film can improve your perception of the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 44 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Simply but intelligantly put. Especially the use of the word "can" in the second sentence. I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 1,931 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 It's pretty much like Manuel put it, and I think we all agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 7 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I'd rather say enjoying a movie is partly about enjoying it's score. But you don't need to actually see the movie to understand a score. As long as you can read a description of the scene your imagination can full the rest and give you the context of the music. All music is best with a context, knowing that the 1812 overture is about the napoleonic wars certainly helps it.Music is an emotional and symbolic language, and to understand it completely you need an intellectual description of what it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 964 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 None what so ever!I don't watch movies all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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