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Complete JFK score


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Hey everyone,

I love the music to JFK, so I feel like doing a complete DVD rip/OST combo of the score. I have tried doing a "complete" DVD edit before, but I stopped because I got really frustrated with the quality of the final mix. I tried editing Indy and the LC, but because of the large amount of SFX and other distracting noise that was still on the final mix, I gave up.

I have recently been inspired to give DVD ripping another try! After listening to some of GoodMusician's work and "The Jungle Book" edit by Delorean90, I really want to do another edit and see if I can achieve the same type of quality that they produced in their final mixes.

I picked JFK because I think it's one of JW's most underrated scores and it certainly has some great moments. Some of the unreleased stuff isn't spectacular, but I think that doing a complete score of this certainly wouldn't be a bad thing if the quality of the edit is good.

So.....so far I have ripped the entire director's cut of the DVD. This contains the english 6 channel and a french 6 channel layer. The cut scenes on disc 2 are really fuzzy and the quality is poor, so I don't think I will mess with those.

I would love it if someone could work on this with me. If you don't have the DVD, I can just send you the audio tracks that I already ripped and you can edit these on your own. We can then upload them and send links of our mixes to each other to agree on the best quality.

I am currently going through the movie and making notes on the track times and creating track titles. I will post these soon.

I would also like your input on what else I should include in the set (re-recordings, suites) and I hope to hear from you guys.

Hope this leads to my first "quality" rip that can be enjoyed by everyone at JWfan. ;)

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The first time I saw the movie, I felt that the music was all over the place. Now that I have gone through it a few times it's really not that bad. There are times when bits of the music are looped (drums), so we will have to determine when to end those cues. I'm 3/4 through the movie regarding making track times and titles and it doesn't seem too fragmented.

I haven't checked out the channels yet, but if they're pretty clean, I think this would be a great score to play around with.

I'll send you the audio in a few days.

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Well, I would believe that I saved the work I've begun all those years ago... I'll check my old back up discs tomorrow evening, and will let you know.

In the mean time, if you could post a cue list, that would be great.

I won't be able to watch the film during the weekend, as I'll have my kids around. And during the next two weeks I'll be busy getting some work ready for an exhibition. But I promisse to as soon as I'm done with that, that I'll dedicate my time to JFK... and a whole other number of projects ;)

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Great! After the weekend I should have a cue sheet for the score and I will go through the audio channels to check out the mix. Yeah, we're probably going to need to edit each of the channels individually and then mix them together. I don't know if we will be able to combine the Front L&R and the Rear L&R to only work with 2 audio clips.

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JFK is a score I really enjoyed a few years ago but it is a long time since I listened to it.

I can't remember about the music of the movie not in the CD release, can you tell me about unreleased cues of JFK ?

From what I remember, the unlreased cues are mostly alternates and variations on the themes we already know.

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I just finished going through the movie and making note of the track times and names. I will post this tomorrow.

As for the DVD rip, I am very excited about doing this edit because I checked out the rip and found that the the front and rear channels are the cleanest I've ever heard!! There are some occasional SFX that we have to try to get rid of, but it sounds pretty good even if you just eliminate the center channel!! :(

As for the unreleased content, the bulk of the score is on the OST, but there is at least a half an hour of unreleased stuff that sounds great on the rip. I think it is definitely worth doing this score.

I consider the OST a concert suite of the score. It will be nice to break the cues down and hear the full score...or at least more complete because this probably will never get an official expanded or complete score treatment.

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Well, I know I'm coming on late with this, but if you need any help (not sure you will lol) let me know... I can always help with cleaning or mixing anything or what have you ;-)

I don't have this film on DVD or anything but is there a set that has any special features? It may be worth checking to see if any of the music is used there...

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Finally! Here's a complete cue list for the "Director's Cut" of JFK (2 disc version).

The times are in MIN:SEC format, so just convert the MIN into hours if you need to.

1. Main Titles: 00:03-2:08/ Kennedy Montage: 2:09-4:15

“Kennedy Montage” consists of: 2:09-2:53 Castro & Cuba/ 2:54-3:22 Russians/ 3:23-4:15 Laos, Vietnam, and Kennedy’s Vision

2. “They’re going to kill Kennedy”: 4:16-5:23

3. The Motorcade: 5:24-6:43

4. “Boss…the President’s been Shot”: 7:23-9:46

5. In Napoleon’s Bar: 9:47-12:04

6. Oswald Shot (barely audible): 17:59-18:28

7. After Effects: 18:31-19:40/ Questioning David Ferrie (loop): 19:41-22:37/ 22:38-22:57

8. 3 Years Later (source music): 24:01-24:27

9. Dissecting the Shots: 25:19-25:44

10. Hitting the Books (source music): 26:03-27:07

11. Reviewing the Warren Report: 29:01-29:45

12. Mr. Bower’s Testimony (very low volume & fragmented): 29:55-31:57

13. A Walk Down Memory Lane: 34:10-36:40

14. “We’re Going Back into the Case”: 37:40-38:02

15. The Beating: 39:18-39:38

16. Operation Mongoose: 39:54-41:52

17. Oswald’s Connections: 42:03-43:25

18. Dean Andrews (source music): 44:03-46:15

19. Read my Lips: 46:17-46:45

20. Louisiana State Penitentiary: 47:00-48:13

21. The Conspiring Begins: 50:13-51:07

22. The Plan Unfolds: 51:08-52:23

23. At the Restaurant (source music): 54:24-55:40

24. Lost Witnesses: 55:45-57:07

25. Oswald’s Background: 57:44-59:44

26. More Connections: 60:33-63:50

27. Framing Oswald: 65:07-65:52

28. “The Shots Rang Out”: 65:53-66:46

29. Identifying Jack Ruby: 68:46-68:51

30. Altered Statements: 70:23-70:28

31. Hard to Believe: 71:06-71:09

32. Ruby Knows: 73:45-74:38

33. Crossfire: 76:31-77:46

34. Oswald Impersonators: 80:40-84:56

35. Clay Bertrand is Clay Shaw: 85:11-85:35

36. A Holiday Interrupted: 85:57-87:27

37. Clay’s Comrades: 87:59-90:19

38. Clay the Patriot?: 92:58-93:57

39. “We got one of ‘em”: 94:07-94:22

40. The Investigation goes Public: 95:27-96:10

41. Ferrie on Edge: 99:56-100:32

42. Web of Deceit: 100:42-101:57

43. The Death of David Ferrie: 105:16-108:09

44. Mr. X: 109:39-111:11

45. The Debrief (segments): 112:12-116:03/ 116:08-116:46/ 117:04-118:43/ 119:08-124:54

46. The Arrest of Mr. Shaw: 126:34-127:55

47. Addressing the Press: 127:57-129:18

48. TV intro (Williams compose?): 129:19-129:24

49. Tensions Building: 130:18-132:40

50. A Lesson in Truth: 135:43-137:01

51. Linking Oswald & Shaw (low sound): 138:03-138:32

52. Oswald’s Note: 139:04-139:41

53. Oswald the Informant: 140:22-141:40

54. No Privacy/ Paranoia: 151:18-152:34

55. A Moment of Consolation: 152:39-153:14

56. RFK Shot: 155:29-156:52

57. Worries & Fears: 157:29-158:33

58. The Trial Begins: 158:34-159:28

59. Willie O’Keefe Testifies: 159:29-159:41

60. Shaw takes the Stand: 162:34-163:10

61. The Definition of Conspiracy: 167:57-172:19

62. Just Following Orders: 172:35-173:01

63. Possible Chain of Events: 174:14-177:59

64. After the Assassination: 178:13-188:05

65. Closing Statements: 196:06-196:50

66. The Verdict/ Garrison’s Family/ End Credits: 197:10-205:28

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I have started to work on the editing process. I just finished editing the first unreleased cue (track 2) and it's about 80% clean of SFX and dialogue so if I can keep this up, we'll have a pretty decent sounding complete edit!!!

With track 2, there were a few loud SFX that I edited out by just copying an exact piece of the music somewhere else in the movie that was free of the SFX and inserting into the track that was being worked on. Amazing!!

Looking good so far!! :cool:

I'll keep you guys posted weekly on this.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey everyone,

I have been extremely busy with midterms over the past 2 weeks, but I can now resume the project! :)

If anyone had thoughts about doing this score edit or helping me out, here's a heads up:

-The audio on the French stream is louder than than the English stream, and even sounds like it has a better quality, but there are voice echos over the right and left channels and the music also has echo, which is really weird. You would hear an instrument and there would be a really annoying reverb or echo after certain parts in the music. So, only work with the English audio stream.

This is a long movie so it will take some time to edit this, especially since I have the OST to work with and edit that into the film sequence. Also, taking out the SFX and making it more listenable is very time consuming!!

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  • 1 month later...

Hey guys,

I am resuming my work on this project now since I have been very busy with finals and projects and all of that college junk.

I am making progress and it's turning out pretty good.

Who knows, I may have it for you guys in time for Christmas!!!

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  • 4 months later...

While working on my DVD edit of JFK and doing research on the score, I came across another composer who was hired by Oliver Stone to add some minor music to the score. In many parts of the score, I noticed this material overlayed on top of some of JW's music to give some scenes emphasis in certain parts.

I was surfing the internet a while ago and I came across the composer's name, but I forgot to write it down and I am having a hard time trying to track this information down again. I would like to credit this composer's name along with JW's on the JFK edit, because there is a noticeable difference in their usage of music.

Does anyone know who this composer is or where I can look it up?

Thanks for the help!! :lol:

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Great that you are creating this DVD edit :lol:

The composer who wrote additional music for JFK was Canadian/American composer duo Tomandandy (=Tom and Andy, pretty clever huh?). Pretty small profile film composers And I think their contribution for the music was pretty minimal, more in the sound design than in music.

This info from IMDB:Tom Hajdu and Andy Milburn. Andy from Texas and Tom from Canada met at Princeton University's Graduate Music Department. After creating one of the largest music production companies in the country, tomandandy has also focused on AI and music software applications.

Plus the JFK soundtrack is a huge patch work of all kind of music edited together with Williams' score some of which is on the OST and some of which isn't. And on the top of that Stone uses Williams' Born on the Fourth of July score snippets in some scenes. So which scenes do you think contain music by this composer duo?

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That's it!!! Thanks a lot! :blink:

The music that this other composer added was not really "music" in the sense that JW's is, but their music was used as a kind of "sound effect" where they would add some dissonant electronic music on top of JW's music to emphasize some scenes for dramatic purposes. I have not come across any music from Born on the Fourth of July yet, because I'm not completely done with the edit, but thanks for letting me know...I'll look out for that material. :lol:

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I came across some of the tracked music from "Born on the Fourth of July." There was a few seconds from the track, "The Shooting of Wilson."

Thanks for the heads up on this info!! :)

If anyone is aware of any other tracked music, let me know. Thanks!

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  • 1 month later...

Hey everyone,

I've recently finished editing the JFK movie and let me tell you... it has been a very long and complicated process, but the efforts have paid off! :P

To start with, the film was VERY long (about 3 hours) and I was still trying to perfect my process of DVD editing so that it would turn out to be a quality effort. Plus, with college stuff, work, and all of that jazz, I just couldn't edit as often as I would have liked to. I even took a few months off of editing because I was so busy, and then I had to re-learn the editing process all over again because if you don't use some of these editing programs regularly, then you will have to refresh yourself on certain processes or functions.

So anyway, I'm near completion and all I have to do is do some volume leveling as some tracks are quiet in parts and loud in others. I have never done this before so this may take a little time to fool around with.

If anyone has any experience in audio/volume leveling, let me know and I could possibly send you everything I have and you could give it a shot.

As for the quality of the music with regards to SFX levels and speech in the mix, I listened to brief segments of some of the tracks that I edited and the edits sound a LOT better than what I expected to hear. There are SFX, but they are scattered around and nothing really hinders the music. Speech is just about non-existent and that's a good thing because I would rather listen to an edit with SFX than both speech and SFX.

So, it sounds really good so far and I think you guys will enjoy it. Let me know if anyone can help out with the volume thing and then I need some covers made, but we can work on that when I have a finalized track list. I'm still working on the order and revised track names also, but that's the easy part.

Get ready folks.... I think we got a pretty decent edit here! ;)

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Yeah, Miguel, you and Jamesyboy have done some amazing work that really stands out.

Maybe both of you guys can give it a shot and see who comes up with the best one?

Your work on the AI cover was really creative and unique. Neat stuff! ;)

After I post the finalized track list on this thread, you guys can have at it. Give me a week or so. I have some neat screens from the film that I think would look great for the covers.

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  • 1 month later...

Below are the finalized track names, order, and everything for this 2CD set.

All I need is for someone to make the covers and then I'll upload it for you guys.

For the covers, I had Jamesyboy and Miguel in mind, since I really liked the work that they posted on this forum.

If anyone else wants to have a shot at it, go ahead.

Post your progress on this thread and the best one will get the set without the need to trade anything!

Since there are a lot of track names and other information, it will cover up the art work, so I was thinking that you can make a front cover with the film name, composer, director, etc., then have the track listings on the inside cover of the CD when you open it up and don't put any art work on it so that it's not covered up. Then you can make a back cover with details on the recording (date, orchestra, music editor names, etc).

I have some screen caps from the movie that I think would make for great cover art, so I'll post them here within the week.

The edit turned out very good and I think you guys will really like it. There's not too many SFX, and when there are, it doesn't distract from the music. Also, speech is almost nonexistent, which is a huge positive!!

I have attached a Word version of the list that you should look at because it has the formatting for the text which didn't show up here after I cut and pasted it.

So, have at it guys!!

I can't wait for you to hear this :D

JFK: The Complete Score

Composed and Conducted by John Williams

Additional music (electronic overlays) by Tom Hajdu and Andy Milburn, also known as “tomandandy”

Complete 2 CD set edited and arranged by Vince “vmw331”

Legend:

* = Previously unreleased

** = Contains previously unreleased material

*** = Contains music not used in film

CD 1: (62:17)

The Score:

1. Main Titles / Prologue (OST) (4:00)

2. “They’re going to kill Kennedy!” (1:13) *

3. Drummer’s Salute (Film Version), arranged by D.G. McCroskie, performed by The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (1:44)

4. Drummer’s Salute (Complete OST Version) (2:56) ***

5. “Boss…the President’s been shot” / Reactions to the News (2:55) *

6. Eternal Father, Strong to Save (OST) – Part I, written by Whiting & Dykes, arranged by John Williams (1:20)

7. Eternal Father, Strong to Save – Part II (0:43) **

8. Dissecting the Shots (0:24) *

9. Studying the Warren Report (0:48) *

10. Mr. Bowers’ Point of View (0:32) **

11. A Walk Down Memory Lane, contains music tracked from “The Shooting of Wilson” from Born on the Fourth of July, composed by John Williams (2:06) **

12. Oswald gets Publicity (0:23) *

13. “We’re going back into the Case” (0:26) *

14. The Beating (0:22) *

15. Operation Mongoose (2:07) **

16. Operation Mongoose (Alternate Beginning) (0:21) *

17. Oswald’s Connections (0:48) *

18. “Read my Lips” (0:34) *

19. Louisiana State Penitentiary, known as “Tribal Consciousness” by Brent Lewis (5:08) ***

20. The Conspiring Begins (0:54) *

21. The Plan Unfolds (1:24) **

22. Lost Witnesses / Oswald’s Background / Framing Oswald (5:38) **

23. “The Shots Rang Out” (0:44)

24. Identifying Jack Ruby (0:09) *

25. The Carousel Club, known as “Maybe September” by Tony Bennett (4:04)

26. Ruby Knows (0:58) *

27. Crossfire on Elm Street (1:06) *

28. Oswald Impersonators (1:54)

29. Clay Bertrand is Clay Shaw (0:28) *

30. A Holiday Interrupted (1:32) *

31. Clay’s Comrades, known as “Ode to Buckwheat” by Brent Lewis (5:07) ***

32. “We got one of ‘em” (1:08) *

33. The Investigation goes Public (0:32) *

34. Ferrie on Edge (0:41) *

35. Web of Deceit (1:16) *

36. The Death of David Ferrie (OST) (2:48)

37. Mr. “X” (1:36) **

CD 2: (66:01)

1. The Debrief (Part I) (3:57) **

2. The Debrief (Part II) (1:43) *

3. The Debrief (Part III) (6:58) **

4. The Eternal Flame / The Arrest of Mr. Shaw (1:24)

5. The Jim Garrison TV Special Intro (0:11) *

6. Commentary on the Case (0:46) *

7. The Tension Builds, contains music tracked from “The Shooting of Wilson” from Born on the Fourth of July, composed by John Williams (0:33)

8. A Lesson about Truth (1:14)

9. Oswald’s Note (0:32) *

10. Oswald the Informant (0:37) *

11. No Privacy (1:03)

12. RFK Shot (0:32) **

13. Worries & Fears (1:08)

14. The Trial Begins (0:57) **

15. The Conspirators (OST) (4:07)

16. Garrison’s Obsession (OST) (2:34)

17. The Motorcade (OST) (5:15)

18. The Verdict / Garrison’s Family / End Credits (9:13)

OST Arrangements with Unused Material:

19. Garrison’s Family Theme (OST) (2:14) ***

20. The Witnesses (OST) (2:47) ***

21. Arlington (OST) (6:30)

22. Finale (OST) (3:15) ***

Additional Media:

23. Director Oliver Stone on the Main Theme and Intro (Refers to Track 1 on CD 1) (0:36)

24. Stone comments on Track 2 on CD 1 (0:23)

25. Stone comments on Track 13 on CD 1 (0:19)

26. Stone comments on Tracks 20 & 21 on CD 1 (0:28)

27. Stone on how Williams’ Music affects the Film (0:48)

28. Official Trailer for JFK, music composed by John Beal (2:23)

29. Theme from JFK (OST) (2:23) ***

Additional music notes (taken from Yahoo Movies):

Budd Carr: executive music producer

Ken Wannberg: Music Editor

John Neufeld: orchestrator

Tom Morrison: principal Trumpet (Boston Pops Orchestra)

JFK_complete_score_track_listings.doc

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  • 2 years later...

"Lord, wake me up; I must be dreaming". This is brilliant news! Another Holy Grail (of sorts) has finally appeared. Congrats to all concerned.

It's a fan edit, FYI. :)

However, there's a helluva tracking in this score, with cues severely trimmed, cutted, pasted and plastered all throughout the movie--I sincerely don't know how a complete score could be remotely possible to assemble in this case without going through an editing nightmare. Williams broke his usual routine with this score and wrote six pieces (Prologue, The Motorcade, Garrison's Obsession, The Conspirators, Garrison's Family Theme and Arlington) based only on the script and some scenes he saw. Stone then used these compositions in the editing room in a library music-like fashion, interpolating them with various other pieces of found music. Williams then wrote some other cues on the final edited film, but most of the score as heard in the film is the result of the process as above.

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However, there's a helluva tracking in this score, with cues severely trimmed, cutted, pasted and plastered all throughout the movie--I sincerely don't know how a complete score could be remotely possible to assemble in this case without going through an editing nightmare

Well, that would be easy I assume from a ripping of the rear channels of the DVD, provided that they aren't SFX heavy. I don't think an edit would be required on the part of the ripper..

Williams broke his usual routine with this score and wrote six pieces (Prologue, The Motorcade, Garrison's Obsession, The Conspirators, Garrison's Family Theme and Arlington) based only on the script and some scenes he saw. Stone then used these compositions in the editing room in a library music-like fashion, interpolating them with various other pieces of found music. Williams then wrote some other cues on the final edited film, but most of the score as heard in the film is the result of the process as above.

Can I find anywhere in the net the source of these information? It sure sounds interesting..

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"Lord, wake me up; I must be dreaming". This is brilliant news! Another Holy Grail (of sorts) has finally appeared. Congrats to all concerned.

It's a fan edit, FYI. :)

However, there's a helluva tracking in this score, with cues severely trimmed, cutted, pasted and plastered all throughout the movie--I sincerely don't know how a complete score could be remotely possible to assemble in this case without going through an editing nightmare. Williams broke his usual routine with this score and wrote six pieces (Prologue, The Motorcade, Garrison's Obsession, The Conspirators, Garrison's Family Theme and Arlington) based only on the script and some scenes he saw. Stone then used these compositions in the editing room in a library music-like fashion, interpolating them with various other pieces of found music. Williams then wrote some other cues on the final edited film, but most of the score as heard in the film is the result of the process as above.

I am aware that it is a fan edit, Maurizio, but I am still excited about it :) , as I posess neither the technology, the knowledge, nor the money to do it myself. As I am unemployed at this time, I have had to rely on the kindness of JWfan members to provide me with downloads of premium scores, which I am simply unable to afford, right now.

Back to "JFK"; for me this is his last truly great score, which is just brimming with atmosphere. I can't wait to hear it; fan edit, or no fan edit!

This must have been an unusual way of working, for J.W. Perhaps that's why it is so good?

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Williams broke his usual routine with this score and wrote six pieces (Prologue, The Motorcade, Garrison's Obsession, The Conspirators, Garrison's Family Theme and Arlington) based only on the script and some scenes he saw. Stone then used these compositions in the editing room in a library music-like fashion, interpolating them with various other pieces of found music. Williams then wrote some other cues on the final edited film, but most of the score as heard in the film is the result of the process as above.

Can I find anywhere in the net the source of these information? It sure sounds interesting..

There's an interview with JW by Richard Dyer that appeared on the Boston Globe back in 1991 where he talks about Hook and JFK. I have it somewhere at home, I need to dig it up.

Back to "JFK"; for me this is his last truly great score, which is just brimming with atmosphere. I can't wait to hear it; fan edit, or no fan edit!

This must have been an unusual way of working, for J.W. Perhaps that's why it is so good?

It sure is a very peculiar and stimulating piece of work. Oliver Stone got some really diverse sides of JW's musical persona in each of the three collaborations, but JFK probably stands out the most in terms of originality. The unusual approach surely had its role in the final result.

Some pieces sound like Williams exploring new harmonic/textural paths, like "The Conspirators". It's also the first score where he tried to explore more actively electronic textures/programmed synths and its integration within an acoustic/orchestral environment, giving the electronics a more prominent and active role (something he later mastered with even more refinement on Nixon and Sleepers). It's also one of his first scores where you can hear here and there the influence of American minimalist composers like Steve Reich and John Adams.

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Williams broke his usual routine with this score and wrote six pieces (Prologue, The Motorcade, Garrison's Obsession, The Conspirators, Garrison's Family Theme and Arlington) based only on the script and some scenes he saw. Stone then used these compositions in the editing room in a library music-like fashion, interpolating them with various other pieces of found music. Williams then wrote some other cues on the final edited film, but most of the score as heard in the film is the result of the process as above.

Can I find anywhere in the net the source of these information? It sure sounds interesting..

There's an interview with JW by Richard Dyer that appeared on the Boston Globe back in 1991 where he talks about Hook and JFK. I have it somewhere at home, I need to dig it up.

Oh, thank you very much for the info. i think I found it: ;)

http://johnwilliams.home.sapo.pt/artigos/ingles/1-19-92.htm

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