Ferre 0 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'd like to know what do you think about John Williams' reasons for the inclusion of the beginning of Richard Strauss' Thus Spoke Zarathustra (the sunrise) in the beginning of The Planet Krypton track in Superman soundtrack. Maybe you think he'd got a reason or maybe you think is only a coincidence. I think that Williams made a logical path like this:Superman --> Superman (Übermensch) theory --> Nietzsche --> Zarathustra --> Strauss' workWhat do you think?Greetings from Spain and many thanks for your contributions,Ferre(Sorry about my poor english) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I personally don't see any obvious connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Perhaps it was temp tracked. A director's instruction.There's a video somewhere online where they replaced the opening music of 2001 (the Zarathustra piece) with The Planet Krypton. Works remarkably well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 It's hardly obvious. Tough call on this one. Not worth discussing unless we know something. There's a pedal tone with a trumpet, but the same can be said of Born on the 4th of July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Zarathustra? Try Tod und Verklärung and the SM Love Theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well, that's an easy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I've thought this for a while, but it's only loosely based on the Strauss piece.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macrea Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 From this interview with Ilya Salkind on the Superman Cinema site:John Williams recorded the score in July 78, "I hadn't heard anything on the piano, the first time I heard the theme was when they recorded it on stage, I went bananas. I asked John if the Krypton theme could be done in the vein of 2001, he did it, but that's the only thing I asked of him. He was brilliant." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 From this interview with Ilya Salkind on the Superman Cinema site:John Williams recorded the score in July 78, "I hadn't heard anything on the piano, the first time I heard the theme was when they recorded it on stage, I went bananas. I asked John if the Krypton theme could be done in the vein of 2001, he did it, but that's the only thing I asked of him. He was brilliant."A true professional then. Giving the client what they want while not giving up originality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 The only thing similar to the Zarathustra is the low basses rumble at the very start. Then the melody enters on trumpet. The melody is, however, completely different from Zarathustra. Besides, in Zarathustra the melody comes in on 2 trumpets (I believe) whereas in the Williams it's a solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 It has the same overall feeling, though. Especially the last few triumphant chords, in addition to what you mentioned.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Now you mention it I suppose it does have a very similar structure and feel. OK, I retract my previous comments. It's blatently an "homage". Still, I love both pieces. Ferre might be onto something with his connection to Nietzsche's "superman". James - who feels dumb for not having seen this himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artyjeffrey 20 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Now you mention it I suppose it does have a very similar structure and feel. OK, I retract my previous comments. It's blatently an "homage". Still, I love both pieces. Ferre might be onto something with his connection to Nietzsche's "superman". James - who feels dumb for not having seen this himself.Don't feel dumb about that-- I just recently made the connection between Zarathustra and "Capricorn One." Now, THAT'S dumb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferre 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Thanks to all of you.That's right, pixie_twinkle. It's a post that I wrote in my blog (http://www.retroklang.com/?p=642 ... sorry, it's in spanish) in wich I draw an imaginary circle that connects several things. That circle "starts" with Strauss' "Zarathustra" and, from that point to Nietzsche's "Also spracht Zaratustra", Alan Moore's "Miracleman" comicbook, "Superman" (the comicbook), "Superman" (the movie" and ends in the same pints in wich it started: Strausss' "Also spracht Zaratustra". I thought that Williams had this connections (except Moore's Miracleman, of course) in mind when he included the Strauss musical motiv.In a comment, someone expressed that the inclusion of the Zaratustra excerpt, that is obvious in my opinion (same structure, the same ascension to C major, very similar orquestal colours) might be a coincidence, and I doubted that. So I've asked your opinons .Macrea's answer is illuminating. The point is clear know: a Salkind's request of a resemblance to Kubrick's "2001".Again, thanks for your kind help,Ferre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 The alikeness between Home Alone's Holiday Flight and Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker suite is way more obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Thanks to all of you.That's right, pixie_twinkle. It's a post that I wrote in my blog (http://www.retroklang.com/?p=642 ... sorry, it's in spanish) in wich I draw an imaginary circle that connects several things. That circle "starts" with Strauss' "Zarathustra" and, from that point to Nietzsche's "Also spracht Zaratustra", Alan Moore's "Miracleman" comicbook, "Superman" (the comicbook), "Superman" (the movie" and ends in the same pints in wich it started: Strausss' "Also spracht Zaratustra". I thought that Williams had this connections (except Moore's Miracleman, of course) in mind when he included the Strauss musical motiv.In a comment, someone expressed that the inclusion of the Zaratustra excerpt, that is obvious in my opinion (same structure, the same ascension to C major, very similar orquestal colours) might be a coincidence, and I doubted that. So I've asked your opinons .Macrea's answer is illuminating. The point is clear know: a Salkind's request of a resemblance to Kubrick's "2001".Again, thanks for your kind help,FerreIt sounds like you're planning on writing a dissertation! Very interesting subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Besides, in Zarathustra the melody comes in on 2 trumpets (I believe)No, on 4, in unison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrygollay 0 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Actually, there is a similar theme in the final of the 7th symphony of Sibelius ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Now there's a GREAT piece! The final chords are the sound of the gates to paradise opening! Makes my toes curl every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Isn't this connection established in the liner notes of the Rhino release?-Tom, who can't check it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 The connection that is made is with the main theme, talking about the perfect fifth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 So I was... not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Succinctly put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Well, I was half-right though, since you resist to acknowledge it. There is a connection in the booklet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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