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Zaratustra & Superman


Ferre
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I'd like to know what do you think about John Williams' reasons for the inclusion of the beginning of Richard Strauss' Thus Spoke Zarathustra (the sunrise) in the beginning of The Planet Krypton track in Superman soundtrack. Maybe you think he'd got a reason or maybe you think is only a coincidence. I think that Williams made a logical path like this:

Superman --> Superman (Übermensch) theory --> Nietzsche --> Zarathustra --> Strauss' work

What do you think?

Greetings from Spain and many thanks for your contributions,

Ferre

(Sorry about my poor english)

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Perhaps it was temp tracked. A director's instruction.

There's a video somewhere online where they replaced the opening music of 2001 (the Zarathustra piece) with The Planet Krypton. Works remarkably well.

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It's hardly obvious. Tough call on this one. Not worth discussing unless we know something. There's a pedal tone with a trumpet, but the same can be said of Born on the 4th of July.

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From this interview with Ilya Salkind on the Superman Cinema site:

John Williams recorded the score in July 78, "I hadn't heard anything on the piano, the first time I heard the theme was when they recorded it on stage, I went bananas. I asked John if the Krypton theme could be done in the vein of 2001, he did it, but that's the only thing I asked of him. He was brilliant."

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From this interview with Ilya Salkind on the Superman Cinema site:

John Williams recorded the score in July 78, "I hadn't heard anything on the piano, the first time I heard the theme was when they recorded it on stage, I went bananas. I asked John if the Krypton theme could be done in the vein of 2001, he did it, but that's the only thing I asked of him. He was brilliant."

A true professional then. Giving the client what they want while not giving up originality!

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The only thing similar to the Zarathustra is the low basses rumble at the very start. Then the melody enters on trumpet. The melody is, however, completely different from Zarathustra. Besides, in Zarathustra the melody comes in on 2 trumpets (I believe) whereas in the Williams it's a solo.

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Now you mention it I suppose it does have a very similar structure and feel. OK, I retract my previous comments. It's blatently an "homage". Still, I love both pieces. Ferre might be onto something with his connection to Nietzsche's "superman".

James - who feels dumb for not having seen this himself.

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Now you mention it I suppose it does have a very similar structure and feel. OK, I retract my previous comments. It's blatently an "homage". Still, I love both pieces. Ferre might be onto something with his connection to Nietzsche's "superman".

James - who feels dumb for not having seen this himself.

Don't feel dumb about that-- I just recently made the connection between Zarathustra and "Capricorn One." Now, THAT'S dumb!

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Thanks to all of you.

That's right, pixie_twinkle. It's a post that I wrote in my blog (http://www.retroklang.com/?p=642 ... sorry, it's in spanish) in wich I draw an imaginary circle that connects several things. That circle "starts" with Strauss' "Zarathustra" and, from that point to Nietzsche's "Also spracht Zaratustra", Alan Moore's "Miracleman" comicbook, "Superman" (the comicbook), "Superman" (the movie" and ends in the same pints in wich it started: Strausss' "Also spracht Zaratustra". I thought that Williams had this connections (except Moore's Miracleman, of course) in mind when he included the Strauss musical motiv.

In a comment, someone expressed that the inclusion of the Zaratustra excerpt, that is obvious in my opinion (same structure, the same ascension to C major, very similar orquestal colours) might be a coincidence, and I doubted that. So I've asked your opinons .

Macrea's answer is illuminating. The point is clear know: a Salkind's request of a resemblance to Kubrick's "2001".

Again, thanks for your kind help,

Ferre

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Thanks to all of you.

That's right, pixie_twinkle. It's a post that I wrote in my blog (http://www.retroklang.com/?p=642 ... sorry, it's in spanish) in wich I draw an imaginary circle that connects several things. That circle "starts" with Strauss' "Zarathustra" and, from that point to Nietzsche's "Also spracht Zaratustra", Alan Moore's "Miracleman" comicbook, "Superman" (the comicbook), "Superman" (the movie" and ends in the same pints in wich it started: Strausss' "Also spracht Zaratustra". I thought that Williams had this connections (except Moore's Miracleman, of course) in mind when he included the Strauss musical motiv.

In a comment, someone expressed that the inclusion of the Zaratustra excerpt, that is obvious in my opinion (same structure, the same ascension to C major, very similar orquestal colours) might be a coincidence, and I doubted that. So I've asked your opinons .

Macrea's answer is illuminating. The point is clear know: a Salkind's request of a resemblance to Kubrick's "2001".

Again, thanks for your kind help,

Ferre

It sounds like you're planning on writing a dissertation! Very interesting subject.

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