Joss Whedon's Dollhouse

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Best guess: Amy Acker.

The news about the ratings is in, and while they were down this week, they weren't down as much as you'd think they'd be going up against a genre juggernaut like the BSG finale. And in fact, the ratings in the 18-35 demo (or whatever the ages for that all-important demo is) actually went up a tenth.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

The DVR viewings of "Stage Fright" for the following week increased the ratings by 30%. Not too shabby.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

The DVR viewings of "Stage Fright" for the following week increased the ratings by 30%. Not too shabby.

Not too shabby at all, and it indicates that if Dollhouse were airing on a different night, it might stand a chance at being an actual hit. Probably not a big hit, but a hit nonetheless.

Problem with DVRs-added ratings is that they don't matter in the slightest, practically speaking. Dollhouse will stay on the air if and only if Fox is makig money by selling airspace to advertisers. Advertisers couldn't give less of a damn about people who watch on DVR. And really, they shouldn't.

Where the DVR numbers could be significant is if Fox is making money on the show, but only a little bit. If that's the case, then its chances for renewal are borderline at best. What could tip it over that line into renewal is if Fox gets the idea that the show's audience can be cultivated and increased. DVR numbers might well be a big factor in that capacity. So could views on Hulu, sales on iTunes, and (of course) sales of the DVDs.

Buzz seems to be building for the show amongst audiences and critics alike, and ratings seem relatively stable at this point. My gut tells me that unless the ratings start to slide, Fox is going to take a chance on a second season, and then spend the summer trying to grow the audience. I'm guessing they really want to find a compatible lead-in, so Terminator will be a goner ... but my feeling is that Fox likes this show, that they like Joss Whedon's fanbase, and that they don't want to (again!) kill a potentially lucrative property before it's really and truly had a chance to thrive. I'm usually not optimistic about these sorts of things, but something about this particular scenario feels tentatively solid to me.

[Jay 37,287]

Finally saw Friday's episode. I liked it. I was surprised they didn't refer to the mole situation from the previous week, but the new developments about Echoe's past were cool. Enjoyed seeing Mellie at the Dollhouse. I hope she isn't away from the show for too long, cause her character is interesting, and I think she's pretty hot Refreshing to see someone with her shape on tv, every other show is filled with thin waifs

[davros72 1]

Finally saw Friday's episode. I liked it. I was surprised they didn't refer to the mole situation from the previous week, but the new developments about Echoe's past were cool. Enjoyed seeing Mellie at the Dollhouse. I hope she isn't away from the show for too long, cause her character is interesting, and I think she's pretty hot Refreshing to see someone with he shape on tv, every other show is filled with thin waifs

Agreed! I think she's waaaay hotter than Sierra or even Echo.

[Jay 37,287]

Sierra is borderline ugly, her face is wack as hell

Miracle Laurie (Mellie/November) is my new favorite celebrity hottie. She's my kind of woman

[Jay 37,287]

So apparently, since Joss scrapped the original pilot they had filmed (although portions of the footage were apparently peppered into the first few episodes), that left them ending their season on episode #12. Since Fox wanted 13 episodes on the DVD, they then wrote and filmed a standalone 13th episode. Fox has apparently decided not to air this episode, and will end the season with 12 episodes. Since this 13th episode will be on the DVD instead of saved as the season 2 premiere, this seems to indicate to me that the show will not be renewed. Guess we'll find out at the up fronts on May 18th.

linky (don't click if you don't want to know what actor has been cast as Alpha)

[davros72 1]

I can't think of what bits in the aired episodes might have been cannibalized from the original pilot. Nothing ever really stuck out as feeling out of place. Anyone know?

P.S. Miracle Laurie (Mellie) twittered she can't wait to watch tonight's ep. Methinks this might mean a healthy dose of Mellie in the ep?

[Jay 37,287]

I can't think of what bits in the aired episodes might have been cannibalized from the original pilot. Nothing ever really stuck out as feeling out of place. Anyone know?

I'd guess the scene with Alpha at the end of the first aired episode.

P.S. Miracle Laurie (Mellie) twittered she can't wait to watch tonight's ep. Methinks this might mean a healthy dose of Mellie in the ep?

Sweet

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

I can't think of what bits in the aired episodes might have been cannibalized from the original pilot. Nothing ever really stuck out as feeling out of place. Anyone know?

I forget which episodes they were in (particularly since they don't have to do with the specific plots), but off the top of my head:

• The scene with Topher and Boyd's exchange of "...living the dream."/"Whose dream?"
  
• Echo sitting in the pool (seen in the opening credits).
  
• One of the Echo/Topher "Did I fall asleep?"/"For a little while." scenes.
  
• Echo being taught to trust Boyd.
  

Some of these were in the trailer that was released almost a year ago, before the pilot was thrown out.

[John Crichton 4]

I really hope the original pilot makes it onto the DVD. I'll be happy never having to watch the aired pilot again.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

It will.

[John Crichton 4]

Sweet. That's about the same time we might be getting the last Galactica release too. Guess I'll have to stop buying classic Doctor Whos at some point and save up for this!

[John Crichton 4]

OK, that was 10 different types of awesome with a big heaping pile of awesome on the side. Joss is on a roll now.

[Jay 37,287]

Wowwwwwww. Last night's episode sure was all kinds of awesome. Damn. Glad I didn't give up on the show.

I'll admit to being a little confused, though. So Laurence Dominick is THE one and only mole? He was the one who programmed Echo and November to relay messages to Paul Ballard? If so: Why? What was his intent and ultimate goal? Where those his only acts of sabotage?

[Turbo 54]

I'll admit to being a little confused, though. So Laurence Dominick is THE one and only mole? He was the one who programmed Echo and November to relay messages to Paul Ballard? If so: Why? What was his intent and ultimate goal? Where those his only acts of sabotage?

I just finished watching it and I never got the impression that he programmed Echo, November, or anybody else. Certainly, he was a mole to 'keep the dollhouse under check' but from previous episodes it still implies that 'Alpha' is the only other one who knows how to manipulate the technology used to wipe/imprint the dolls. Also, I believe November was reimprinted after the 'chip' was removed from the chair. As such, it implies that there is something else at work that Dominick wasn't aware of.

[Jay 37,287]

OK, so:

-Dominic was as spy for the NSA. He infiltrated the Dollhouse in order to make sure its technology doesn't fall into the wrong hands, as well as hopefully steal the technology so the US gov't could make Dolls of their own.

-There is ANOTHER spy still at large, who has programmed both Echo and November to give messages to Helo.

If that's right, here's my theory on who the mole is:

It's Claire Saunders (Amy Acker's character, the doctor with the cut-up face). The Alpha situation messed her up, she feels trapped in the Dollhouse and unable to leave, and she feels that taking the house down will give her her freedom back. Also, since she is more or less living at the Dollhouse now, she has plenty of time to figure out how to imprint programming when Topher's not around.

Thoughts?

[davros72 1]

Yeah, somewhat confusing, but my feeling is there is a second spy/mole. I really don't think Dominic would do or want to do the programming of Echo and November that we've seen, just doesn't seem like his method or reason.

Saunders seems a good guess.

I don't think Boyd would be the second mole.

Nor does Topher seem a reasonable candidate.

I don't think any of the dolls are the mole, not even Echo, even with her newly displayed independent thinking streak.

Ivy (Topher's assistant, had to google her name), nope, don't think so.

Ms DeWitt? Secretive and devious enough, so perhaps.

[Jay 37,287]

I think DeWitt and Ivy are the most likely candidates after Saunders

Ivy works closely with Topher, and DeWitt might be looking for an out other than Victor to end her job. Seems to stress her out fairly highly

[John Crichton 4]

After the best episode yet and a typical Fox piss-poor timed week off, the last three (or four) eps start tonight. Here's Herc's write up, with lots of critical praise for the previous ep.

The Amazon page for the DVD release is up too. July 28th.

[Jay 37,287]

Another great episode tonight. It looked silly from the previews, but I thought it was very well done. Though the Topher and Helo/November stories where both more interesting than the Echo one.... but that's usually the case

Next week's looks VERY interesting. I'm glad it looks like Ballard's investigation will be a multi-season thing. Though I don't know what they'll possibly do with his character when this arc ends.

[John Crichton 4]

I got bored with the Echo plotline, except every time Olivia Williams showed up. I loved the Ballard and Topher stuff though.

When Topher was doing his "one man" spiel during the laser tag game I had another one of those "Joss should have gotten Tom Lenk to play him" moments (nothing against the guy that does play him, he's great).

[John Crichton 4]

Oooooooooooooh yes. Yes indeed. Jane Espenson even worked a "frak" into her script!

One guess for the future (if there is one, there'd better be):

Ballard's gonna be a doll.

[Jay 37,287]

Did you watch the same episode I did? There's no way Ballard is a doll. How does that make any sense at all?

I kinda wish I hadn't read before the episode that Alan Tudyk was cast as Alpha; Then again, I feel like even if I didnt know that, I would have guessed it. Seemed kinda obvious throughout

I feel like it wasn't a totally satisfying episode; It was really only half of the story. Too bad Fox couldn't air this as a 2 hour finale, or at least have advertised the episode as part 1 of a 2part finale.

I can't believe Victor's face will be scarred forever now

Hope November gets to help save the day somehow next week

[John Crichton 4]

Did you watch the same episode I did? There's no way Ballard is a doll. How does that make any sense at all?

You misunderstand. I didn't say that Ballard is currently a doll, I said that, whether by choice or coersion, he will be one after the Alpha situation is resolved. Maybe during.

That opening with the guy in the alley was so Buffy, I was half expecting a vampire to jump him. And the whole thing was Joss through and through. I really, really hope Fox gives the show another chance next year, on a different night.

[Jay 37,287]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Yea, I think so too. His character will have nothing else to do, and I'm sure they'll want to keep him on the show, so a doll is probably where they'll end up going with him

[John Crichton 4]

Joss has said that despite all the difficulties at the start the show is ending up exactly where he wanted it to be at the end of this year. I can see an arc for a theoretical season 2 of Ballard (Bravo?) and Echo gaining more and more self awareness through each other, a burgorning relationship/romance.

[Jay 37,287]

No way he'd have a romance with Echo with November still in the house

[Jay 37,287]

That was a mostly good finale.... I enjoyed learning all the back stories, but I can't help but feel a little confused and that many things were left unexplained.

And not in like a, they saved some good mysteries for next season kind of way.... more of like.... I betcha they'll never explain that and its kind of annoying kind of way

[John Crichton 4]

I like how a decent amount was left unresolved. Don't forget about Joss' 13th ep that Fox decided we don't really need to see which will be on the DVD, plus it hopefully creates more desire for a second season.

That being said, I'm surprised Alpha got away. Joss normally does self contained season villans, and I was expecting him to get put away.

No comments on your favorite doll getting her release, Jason?

Amy Acker in full on sexy mode = me needing a very cold shower.

[Jay 37,287]

OK Here are my confusions (if that's a word) after the season finale

• Why did Alpha need Ballard in any way shape or form? He clearly knew where the LA Dollhouse was, and how to get in, and what to do once he was in there. So why wait so long to break in? Why send Ballard videos of Caroline anonymously, why live in the Dollhouse designer's pad so that Ballard could find him and drag him to the Dollhouse, etc. I don't get it.
  
• Or where we supposed to assume that Alpha WAS the designer of the Dollhouse? If so, how in the world did he later become a doll without any of them knowing that?
  
• Who was the mole in the LA Dollhouse? IE, who re-programmed Echo and November to deliver messages to Ballard? Was it really just the security guy (Dominic) that's now in the attic? If so, what was his reason for implanting messages for Ballard in the dolls? I don't get it.
  
• I strongly disliked that people's personalities / memories where stored on specific hard drives that could just be grabbed and stolen. NO wayyyyyyy would that happen. They'd have all kinds of backups both in that building and on other random servers out there in the world.
  

I did like a lot about the episode, though, don't get me wrong.

• I liked Alpha's backstory, that he was halfway to being a serial killer when they made him a doll, and seeing how he got 48 personalities zapped into him at once was cool. I was a tad confused as to why he was becoming self-aware as a doll more so than any others...
  
• The reveal that the personality Echo had was really an old one of "Whiskey's" was good, as was the reveal that Alpha was basically in love with Caroline at first sight.
  
• I loved the reveal about Claire, that she was their best doll before Alpha ruined her face. I liked the intriguing question at the end, about why did Topher program her to hate him? That's the kind of plot thread I like leaving open for the next season, as opposed to the ones I outlined above
  

I am sad that Victor got cut up. I assume he won't be going on assignments any more. I wonder what the Dollhouse will do with him? I assume the actor is still part of the main cast.

Finally, Paul requested that November gets set free. I'm really not sure how I feel about that at all. His season arc was that he wanted to free Caroline from what he thought was slavery. By the end of the season, though, he's agreed to work with the Dollhouse.... which to me means he now doesn't view it as slavery.... so he shouldn't feel the need to free any doll, right? But then he wants to have November set free anyway? Why? He doesn't even KNOW November! He was in love with Mellie, a totally made-up personality that doesn't really exist. I don't see why he'd care about getting November set free, especially before Caroline.

Plus, I am sad that that probably means Miracle Laurie won't be on the show anymore

[John Crichton 4]

Season two of Dollhouse, all but confirmed!

[Jay 37,287]

Yay!!

... hopefully some of my questions above will get answered!

[Bryant Burnette 654]

OK Here are my confusions (if that's a word) after the season finale

• Why did Alpha need Ballard in any way shape or form? He clearly knew where the LA Dollhouse was, and how to get in, and what to do once he was in there. So why wait so long to break in? Why send Ballard videos of Caroline anonymously, why live in the Dollhouse designer's pad so that Ballard could find him and drag him to the Dollhouse, etc. I don't get it.
  
• Or where we supposed to assume that Alpha WAS the designer of the Dollhouse? If so, how in the world did he later become a doll without any of them knowing that?
  
• Who was the mole in the LA Dollhouse? IE, who re-programmed Echo and November to deliver messages to Ballard? Was it really just the security guy (Dominic) that's now in the attic? If so, what was his reason for implanting messages for Ballard in the dolls? I don't get it.
  
• I strongly disliked that people's personalities / memories where stored on specific hard drives that could just be grabbed and stolen. NO wayyyyyyy would that happen. They'd have all kinds of backups both in that building and on other random servers out there in the world.
  

I did like a lot about the episode, though, don't get me wrong.

• I liked Alpha's backstory, that he was halfway to being a serial killer when they made him a doll, and seeing how he got 48 personalities zapped into him at once was cool. I was a tad confused as to why he was becoming self-aware as a doll more so than any others...
  
• The reveal that the personality Echo had was really an old one of "Whiskey's" was good, as was the reveal that Alpha was basically in love with Caroline at first sight.
  
• I loved the reveal about Claire, that she was their best doll before Alpha ruined her face. I liked the intriguing question at the end, about why did Topher program her to hate him? That's the kind of plot thread I like leaving open for the next season, as opposed to the ones I outlined above
  

I am sad that Victor got cut up. I assume he won't be going on assignments any more. I wonder what the Dollhouse will do with him? I assume the actor is still part of the main cast.

Finally, Paul requested that November gets set free. I'm really not sure how I feel about that at all. His season arc was that he wanted to free Caroline from what he thought was slavery. By the end of the season, though, he's agreed to work with the Dollhouse.... which to me means he now doesn't view it as slavery.... so he shouldn't feel the need to free any doll, right? But then he wants to have November set free anyway? Why? He doesn't even KNOW November! He was in love with Mellie, a totally made-up personality that doesn't really exist. I don't see why he'd care about getting November set free, especially before Caroline.

Plus, I am sad that that probably means Miracle Laurie won't be on the show anymore

I don't think Alpha had any idea where the Dollhouse was located. That's why he needed Ballard; he needed someone who would be relentless in tracking it, and capable of doing it.

Alpha was definitely NOT the designer of the Dollhouse. That's who he killed at the beginning of "Briar Rose" (well, he was in the dumpster killing him when the episode began).

I think the mystery of who was the mole is something you're supposed to realize is an ongoing mystery, BUT you're supposed to think the people inside the Dollhouse think it's been resolved. No telling who it might be; I assumed Saunders, but that one seems to be off the table.

The hard drives issue seems plausible enough. If I can accept that someone's personality could be put onto a hard drive, I can accept that that's how it would be stored.

My main question about the finale was, why did the costume designer feel it was acceptable to put Eliza Dushku in a long-sleeved flannel shirt and cut-off jeans? Nobody -- not even redneck criminals -- should ever wear that.

I ended up being pretty well sold on the series, and the news that it is, in fact, getting a second season is unbelievably good news. Hopefully, the show can gain enough momentum over the summer -- what with DVD and the like -- that the audience will grow just enough to get whatever numbers Fox is looking for it to get in the fall. Knowing Whedon, the second season will be a big improvement over the first, so it's definitely something to look forward to.

Man, first Friday Night Lights gets implausibly renewed for TWO more seasons ... then Dollhouse gets picked up. Now, if only NBC will renew Chuck I'll be convinced that hell really IS about to freeze over. I'm not a fan, but I even kinda wish Fox would pick up The Sarah Connor Chronicles; may as well make a clean sweep of it.

[Jay 37,287]

Thanks Bryant, you helped me clear some things up in my mind for sure

[John Crichton 4]

Another Joss vet is headed to Dollhouse: Summer Glau!

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/05/ask-ausiello--3.html

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

That doesn't say it's happening, just that it has occurred to Joss.

I'd love to see it happen though.

[Jay 37,287]

I just watched "Epitaph One", the special 13th episode of Dollhouse: Season 1 that is only on the DVD.

Two words: Fucking Brilliant.

You guys gotta do whatever you can to track down this episode. It blew me away. It starts off slow and confusing but trust me, stick with it: It gets more and more awesome with each flashback (you'll see), and the ending is just brilliant.

Watching the original unaired pilot now

[John Crichton 4]

Should I ask how you're watching this now? I'll see it when the DVD comes out next week. Or at least after I'm done with the end of Galactica, which comes out the same day.

[Jay 37,287]

The original unaierd pilot was interesting. Definitely can see why all involved thought they could do better. I prefer just about everything in the final episodes over what we saw here - especially the way they slowly revealed that the russian guy Ballard was talking to was an agent rather than giving it away in act 2 of the pilot. I also like that they held off on Echo meeting Ballard until episode 6 in the final episodes.

There are some aspects of it that it is too bad they couldn't work in, namely the thread about the Dollhouse occasionally doing pro bono work, and how the altruistic cases increase the doll's overall well-being. I also liked the imprints Echo had in the beginning - the wedding date, criminal exchange, and the hospital visit - I'm a little surprised they didn't fit those in somewhere else.

JC, I'm not allowed to say on this board how I saw it, but come on, is it really that hard to figure out

[John Crichton 4]

JC, I'm not allowed to say on this board how I saw it, but come on, is it really that hard to figure out

No, I just wanted to see if you'd say it.

Was there a lot of footage from the original pilot that made it's way into other episodes?

[Jay 37,287]

Yea there was, including some entire scenes

[John Crichton 4]

There's been some interesting casting news lately. Right now all of the following are rumored to be appearing in the second season of Dollhouse:

Galactica vet- Jamie Bamber (Lee Adama)

Jossvets- Felicia Day (last season of Buffy and Dr. Horrible, and she's in the "unaired" S1 ep on the DVD), Summer Glau (Firefly/Serenity), and Alexis Denisof (Buffy and Angel).

The same article reporting on Bamber also says that next season Paul Ballard will be Echo's handler.

[Jay 37,287]

That is already confirmed just by watching Epitaph One

[John Crichton 4]

That is already confirmed just by watching Epitaph One

Ah. I won't be getting there for a while, I'm watching Galactica first.

[Turbo 54]

That is already confirmed just by watching Epitaph One

I just finished watching Epitaph One.

I hated it, passionately. To me, this destroyed my desire to watch the show next season because it basically laid out the entire future of the series.

[Jay 37,287]

Oh my I WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree....

[Turbo 54]

What did you like about Epitaph One? I am not one to argue simply for the sake of arguing, I am curious what you liked about it though.

[John Crichton 4]

I watched Epitath One this afternoon. Wow, even by Joss' standards this is bleak. I'm talking a double order of bleak topped with bleak and a pile of dispair on the side. But it was also really, really good. I can't wait to see how these developments, and I assume potential developments, will influence season 2.

I think

Topher and DeWitt

is simply one of my favorite Joss moments ever, on several levels.

[Jeshopk 8]

I have seen this thread title for many a day. It's an object lying there in the message board. I refuse to read the first post. What the heck is a Whedonite? I imagine he is some TV actor I have never seen. I probably won't return to read the answer, but I just wanted to lend my perspective.

- and then he was gone -