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Trent B

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Well done, you!

 

My 3-disc DVD set - yes, DVD! "... offering unrivaled picture and sound quality" it says, 'ere - of CLEOPATRA was waiting for me when I arrived home, from work.

Yea, me! I'll watch it, over the weekend.

I'm not sure if it has an iso. score, but I'm not that bothered. It's just so good to have it.

 

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So, I just got a copy from ebay, but not cheap. 44 euros (incl. Shipping and import taxes).
Here's the back cover:

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

and here's the one I got today from Amazon:

IMG_20230602_173057.jpg

 

You can see the difference in the audio in UHD.
The top one says Dolby Digital English 5.1, the bottom one says DTS-HD Master Audio English 2.0.
Also, the one that I just got from ebay comes with a slipcover.
So I guess (and I hope) I purchased the right one now!

 

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5 hours ago, rough cut said:

Looks about right. :)

This is from hometheaterforum:

Quote

I believe it's been stated in this thread that some copies of the new disc (no legacy DD 5.1 track) have been mispackaged using the old artwork that claims audio features not actually on the disc.

:o:(:o

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Frustrating.

 

I get it. You’re a collector (aren’t we all? ;)), you want all possible versions to be able to compare and to decide for yourself which is better. You’re possibly a “purist”, but what does that really mean these days - I guess a true purist would collect VHS tapes, not newly remastered UHD releases. It’s a tricky thing, to want it “as close as possible to the original” but in “the best, possible quality - perhaps even better than when it was originally released”.

 

But did you listen to the 2.0 version at least? Let’s be honest, that’s probably how most movie viewers experienced Superman in the theaters back in the day anyway.

 

Also, take into account that the surround version is DD 5.1, i.e. lossy. From a certain point of view, the DTS 2.0 is better.

 

Lastly, the 2001 remix is better anyhow.

 

Just trying to cheer you up, and give a different POV. I hope the new one you ordered is the one you want. At least looks like it on the box, so chances are good. :)

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29 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Lastly, the 2001 remix is better anyhow.

Well, I don't like the new whoosh audio effects in the titles. I don't know what else is changed.

 

No, I didn't listen to the 2.0 version, but I've read reviews that it sounds thin and what else comparing to the lossy 5.1 track.

And for a film like Superman I would prefer a surround track, since it has a great score too (I guess it opens up in the rear channels).

 

Yes, I consider myself a purist.

I want a film I like in the best possible presentation which can be either a blu-ray or a UHD*, with its grain intact, and with original audio.

Another example eg. of a botched audio is the blu-ray of Romancing the stone I watched recently.

The blu-ray cuts off some high frequencies and I don't know what else (I can't talk tech in these matters), and you lose some instruments from the music (mostly percussion).

While the DVD audio (that I muxed in) which presents the original audio, was so much better and unfiltered and you could hear everything as you should.

 

*I don't upgrade everything to UHD. It depends, if the upgrade is dramatic.

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2 hours ago, filmmusic said:

Well, I don't like the new whoosh audio effects in the titles. I don't know what else is changed.

 

Neither do I. I dislike the "locking" sound, as the S comes over the camera.

 

There are some backwards sound effects during the "Launching Kal-El/Destruction Of Cri  er, Krypton" sequence.

There's some metallic, "jangly" sound effects as the remains of Krypton fly past the camera.

The initial sound of the XK-101 hitting the San Andreas fault is different, and there some added effects, as Supes flies underground to repear the damage.

The helicopter crash at the top of the Daily Planet building has been beefed-up.

Of course, the score now has a wonderful 5.1 spread. It's a truly great iso.

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I’m all for Atmos mixes that aren’t too revisionary, based on the original sounds but mixed to the channels differently.  But I don’t like replacement of sounds. Jaws and Superman were the most egregious. 

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So, no idea what this is, but WB is release a “Web 3” edition of Superman 4K.

 

It looks like what you get is a digital download of the movie and some bonus content that looks like it’s ripped straight from the height of the DVD era.

 

I think it look’s pretty crap.

 

Thankfully, it’s only available for 24 hrs, so chances are that if you wanna buy it, you’ll miss out unless you know about it before hand (you can thank me later) and put a note in your calendar.

 

Available 9th June.

 

https://web3.wb.com/warnermedia/movieverse

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Yes.

 

Quote

Superman: The Movie is being released as an exclusive Web3 film and immersive digital collectible for the first time,” said Michelle Munson, CEO and co-founder of Eluvio. “As part of the WB Movieverse, consumers can easily watch, collect, and sell their film Web3 Movie Experiences on the blockchain”

 

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On 03/06/2023 at 11:13 AM, filmmusic said:

Yes, I consider myself a purist.

I want a film I like in the best possible presentation which can be either a blu-ray or a UHD*, with its grain intact, and with original audio.

 

I wouldn't say I'm a purist but I generally want to see things in their original format, i.e. if it was filmed in SD then I'm not interested in an HD upconversion. I'm very sceptical that a computer can simply make up details that aren't there.

 

Similarly I've seen instances of studios trying to clean up a film when it wasn't really needed. My brother got a DVD of The Shawshank Redemption back in the early 00s where they had tried to minimise the grain, but all they ended up doing was really softening the image. I'm fairly sure that amongst his DVD collection (most of which he left here when he emigrated) is an intial version of Shawshank and this de-grainified version

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We recently rewatched Alias via the original DVDs (because of them having the original music).  It was fun to revisit.  Though the plotlines get terrible in the later seasons, it remains completley watchable due to everything else

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I had no idea this was a thing. I think the only case I knew about before hand was Donnie Darko, but what I understand happened there is that the director/studio actually tried to “upgrade” the soundtrack with more famous songs, than originally chosen, for the movie’s wider release.

 

This phenomenon where famous songs in TV-shows are being replaced is clearly the opposite.

 

Super interesting article on the subject courtesy of The New York Times;

 

Quote

 

Why Don’t Some TV Shows Sound the Way They Used To?

 

Licensing issues have gutted the soundtracks of many beloved series on streaming services, resulting in bewildering music cues and missing theme songs.

 

By Calum Marsh

Published April 21, 2021 Updated April 26, 2021

 

For years, whenever Paula Cole’s phone started lighting up, it usually meant one thing: “Dawson’s Creek” had arrived on another streaming platform.

 

The hit teen drama, which aired on the WB from 1998 to 2003, is synonymous with the singer’s beloved theme song, “I Don’t Want to Wait.” On home video and on streaming platforms like Netflix, however, the series has had almost all of its original music replaced, including, most conspicuously, its theme song. Instead of Cole’s tune, episodes of “Dawson’s Creek” now open with “Run Like Mad,” by Jann Arden.

 

Audiences have not taken this change lightly. “People really care and are really upset about it,” Cole said in a phone interview from her home in Massachusetts. “They tag me in every post — so much tagging on the socials, fans tagging Netflix and Sony. It’s prolific.” (Cole’s song does play before the two-part series finale on Netflix, thanks to a deal Sony Pictures Entertainment, the production studio and distributor, made for a special 2003 DVD release.)

 

“Dawson’s Creek” is one of many classic shows that sound different today than you probably remember. Stream it on Netflix, and most of the pop music it included when it originally aired is absent. It’s a bewildering transformation — and one that is surprisingly widespread across streaming services in North America.

 

Why does it happen? As it turns out, it’s mainly a problem of foresight.

 

All shows have to pay for the rights to use existing songs in their soundtracks, and the process of licensing popular tunes can be prohibitively expensive. Before the early 2000s, in the days before DVD box sets and streaming, producers didn’t think much about the long-term future of these programs — as they saw it, they would air live and possibly for a few years in syndication. Many opted for a compromise to get well-known songs onto their shows: limited, short-term licenses, which allowed them to land big artists on the cheap.

 

“At that point people didn’t think further,” said Robin Urdang, an Emmy-winning music supervisor who has licensed songs for such shows as “Broad City” and “The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.” “‘We’re airing the show for a year or three years or five years, and then it’s going away.’ They didn’t think they needed the music longer.”

 

The upshot is, once the licenses expired, many shows wound up on streaming services with their music replaced. This can result in some unusual and frustrating viewing experiences.

 

In an early episode of “The X-Files,” Agent Scully, played by Gillian Anderson, interrogates a serial killer who claims to have psychic powers. She doesn’t believe him, but as she goes to leave, he sings a few bars of Bobby Darin’s “Beyond the Sea” — a song she heard the day before, at her father’s funeral. Scully leaves spooked, and the audience is left to wonder whether the killer really does have psychic powers.

 

At least, that’s what the audience might have wondered in 1994, when the episode aired on Fox. If you watch it today on Hulu, you may wonder what the killer is referring to. Bobby Darin’s “Beyond the Sea” is no longer heard at Scully’s father’s funeral. Instead, we hear “La Mer,” the French-language jazz standard with the same melody, by Charles Trenet. As a result, the killer’s taunt is now more bewildering than portentous. (The title of the episode, to add to the confusion, is “Beyond the Sea.”)
 

“I worked on a show called ‘Burn Notice’ years ago,” Urdang said. “Our first season, the budget was ridiculously low — about $20,000 per episode. The following year it went down to $19,000.”

 

For “Burn Notice,” Urdang pursued music by unknown independent artists — “songs that nobody knew,” which were therefore more affordable, she said. But for showrunners and music supervisors intent on using hits, limited-use licenses were a cheaper workaround.

 

“A lot of times you realize that, say, putting an Abba song in a scene is really key,” said Thomas Golubic, a music supervisor who has worked on “Breaking Bad” and “The Walking Dead,” among other shows. “Well, Abba is incredibly expensive, and nobody is looking to cut you a deal.”

 

In order to afford the song, a show might have paid a lower fee for fixed-term use under certain conditions — for one year, maybe, or five. The licenses could be restricted to broadcast TV, not for DVD or online. As shows headed to streaming platforms, these limited-use deals had to be worked out all over again.

 

“Now they have to renegotiate for an Abba song for this incredibly long use, and Abba is able to charge whatever they want,” Golubic said. “They now have to ask themselves: Do we pay for the Abba song, or do we replace it with something else?”

“It’s very hard to do this job, and when you get it right, it’s an exciting experience,” he added. To have to later swap out favorite selections over rights issues “can be heartbreaking.”

 

These limited, temporary licenses could be as low as five percent of the cost of licensing a song in perpetuity, Urdang said. That enabled shows with low budgets, like “Dawson’s Creek,” to pack their episodes with recognizable tunes, even if only briefly — no one would be interested in watching these shows in a decade’s time anyway, the thinking went.

 

Now producers know better, and whether on streaming, network or cable, in-perpetuity licenses are the norm. “I don’t know anyone that would allow any kind of limited option anymore,” Urdang said. “We have to get rights forever.” Music budgets tend to be higher now to accommodate these needs, she said.

 

Buck Damon, a music supervisor on song-laden series like “Freaks and Geeks,” which aired on NBC, and the WB’s “Felicity,” has experienced both sides of the licensing issue. The producers of the beloved period high-school comedy “Freaks and Geeks” have prioritized securing whatever clearances necessary in order to preserve the show’s soundtrack on digital platforms. (The creator Paul Feig has said he wouldn’t allow it to be shown with alternate music.)

 

A new round of deals allowed “Freaks and Geeks” to return to TV earlier this year, to widespread exultation: When you watch the show on Hulu, its evocative mix of vintage hits by bands like Styx, Rush and the Who remains intact.

 

“Felicity” was a different story. The charming college drama, created by J.J. Abrams and Matt Reeves, was music-intensive by design, featuring hit songs by popular artists of the time like Lauryn Hill, Damon said.

 

“There was a lot of great music in ‘Felicity’ that was cool and happening in 1999,” he said. “But with such small budgets, the only way to make that work was to license the music for five years.”

 

When it came time to re-license the music for DVD and streaming, the distributor, ABC Studios, opted not to bother. If you stream the show now, Damon’s song choices have been replaced with cheap-sounding Muzak and tracks by unknown bands.

 

“It’s kind of ridiculous, if you think about it,” he said. “Why not just pay to keep that great music?”

 

Fans of such shows are often vocal about their distaste for the altered soundtracks on Reddit and social media. One “Felicity” fan has even cobbled together a guerrilla edit of the show with its original soundtrack painstakingly restored.

 

This kind of outcry may have produced at least one victory: Sony has apparently conceded to “Dawson’s Creek” fan pressure about “I Don’t Want to Wait.”

 

Cole, who is set to release her 11th studio album, “American Quilt,” on May 21, said that she has recorded a new master for the song and that over the past year, Sony has negotiated with her publishing company to restore it as the series theme.

 

If all goes according to plan, Cole said, “I Don’t Want to Wait” will soon reassume its rightful place at the start of “Dawson’s Creek” on streaming services. (Sony representatives declined to comment or confirm this development.)

 

“It’s wonderful to have waited this out,” Cole said. “I feel like it’s not just vindication for me, but for the fans, and for all artists.”

 

 

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On 08/06/2023 at 6:30 PM, Jay said:

We recently rewatched Alias via the original DVDs (because of them having the original music).  It was fun to revisit.  Though the plotlines get terrible in the later seasons, it remains completley watchable due to everything else

 

How much music was changed? I remember there being *some* non-original/non-score music, but apparently there was more than I recall? (I don't expect they changed the actual scores?) In any case, Ron Rifkin is amazing in this, and Victor Garber is wonderful, too.

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I’m not familiar with Alias, but Scrubs was always the show for me that was radically changed by expired music licenses.

 

It’s why I still hang onto the DVDs. Bill Lawrence said in one of the early episodes of the Fake Doctors, Real Friends podcast, that he was trying to make a deal with Disney to fix that for streaming. 

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20 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

How much music was changed? I remember there being *some* non-original/non-score music, but apparently there was more than I recall? (I don't expect they changed the actual scores?) In any case, Ron Rifkin is amazing in this, and Victor Garber is wonderful, too.

 

Just about every pop/rock song throughout the entire show was changed for the current streaming versions.  The DVDs have all the original songs.  The score is unchanged, of course.

 

 

10 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

I’m not familiar with Alias, but Scrubs was always the show for me that was radically changed by expired music licenses.

 

Expired is the wrong word.  Nothing expired.  They simply never licensed the songs for internet streaming in the first place.  Only over the air broadcast and home video (though even then, one Scrubs episode changed sing one song on the DVD too, I forget which one now)

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26 minutes ago, Jay said:

Expired is the wrong word.  Nothing expired.  They simply never licensed the songs for internet streaming in the first place.  Only over the air broadcast and home video (though even then, one Scrubs episode changed sing one song on the DVD too, I forget which one now)

 

Some of them did expire though, didn't they? There have been DVD and/or Blu releases which had changed soundtracks because of that.

 

But even if (*if*) the distinction between broadcast and home video licencing makes sense, I question having separate licencing for broadcasting and internet streaming. Following that logic, will the next direct-to-consumer-streaming technology require yet another licence (and cause yet another wave of song replacements)?

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The part of my post you quoted was specifically about Scrubs.  Other shows could have something to do with expiring stuff.  From everything I ever heard about Scrubs, they simply never licensed the songs for internet-streamed versions of the show, because that wasn't a thing when the show started.  So the budget the show had as the episodes were created covered licensing for the over-the-air, broadcast versions, as well as the DVD releases, because they at least had the foresight for that.  Other shows weren't as lucky, like the Drew Carey show, which didn't have DVD rights for the songs, so they've never been released on home video.

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€220 is a bargain for THE BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI, alone.

 

 

 

I've recently purchased the DVD of OAKLAHOMA! at my local thrift store, for the shockingly exorbitant price of 20p (I know :)).

The choice facing me is: do I watch it in CinemaScope, or do I watch it in Todd A-O?

Answers on.

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11 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

€220 is a bargain for THE BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI, alone.

You like that movie so much?

I have seen it once long long ago and I don't remember anything, so practically it's a blind buy. (thought I should have it in my collection since it's considered a great classic)

Personally, I would give that amount of money for either one of these 2 releases:

-Beauty and the beast (1991) with grain and original theatrical color timing

-Original Star Wars trilogy (again with grain and original theatrical color timing)

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Yes, @filmmusic, TBOTRK is a stone cold classic, and it deserves to be in every discerning DVD collection. Well done.

 

2 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

-Original Star Wars trilogy (again with grain and original theatrical color timing)

 

Sorry, dude, but not in your lifetime ;)

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37 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

-Beauty and the beast (1991) with grain and original theatrical color timing

-Original Star Wars trilogy (again with grain and original theatrical color timing)

 

I feel the next big thing in home video needs to be user selectable A.I. filters that add grain and change colour timing to be more "retro" based on the preferences of the user.

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59 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I've recently purchased the DVD of OAKLAHOMA! at my local thrift store, for the shockingly exorbitant price of 20p (I know :)).

The choice facing me is: do I watch it in CinemaScope, or do I watch it in Todd A-O?

Answers on.

20p? what is p?

If you have a blu-ray capability, I would buy the blu-ray if I were you.

It seems it's excellent.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Oklahoma-Blu-ray/99865/#Review

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7 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

I feel the next big thing in home video needs to be user selectable A.I. filters that add grain and change colour timing to be more "retro" based on the preferences of the user.

Or, you know, they could just restore the goddamn movies and put them out without fucking them up in the first place.

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On 02/06/2023 at 10:15 PM, filmmusic said:

So, I just got a copy from ebay, but not cheap. 44 euros (incl. Shipping and import taxes).
Here's the back cover:

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

and here's the one I got today from Amazon:

IMG_20230602_173057.jpg

 

You can see the difference in the audio in UHD.
The top one says Dolby Digital English 5.1, the bottom one says DTS-HD Master Audio English 2.0.
Also, the one that I just got from ebay comes with a slipcover.
So I guess (and I hope) I purchased the right one now!

 

Finally!!

I just got the right one with the original theatrical 70mm mix!!

Now I know what I'll be watching tonight!:)

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Yeah, congrats! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

 

I’m expecting a thorough comparison and a scene-by-scene breakdown of what your thoughts were on both the original mix as well as the remix, and which on you prefer and why…

 

OK, I’ll let you off the hook, scene-by-scene is too much to ask for. Key scenes are enough! 😉

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I saw Supes in Ciné Rubens (the largest screen in Belgium), where I also saw Star Wars, 2001: ASO (a rerun due to the success of Star Wars), Alien, Raiders Of The Lost Ark and Blade Runner. The seats where terrible but the screen was magnificent.

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As has been posted, the first thing to notice is that there is no "whoosh" and locking sound as the S comes over the camera, in the main titles.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, AC1 said:

... 2001: ASO (a rerun due to the success of Star Wars)...

 

Also, in 1978 :)

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2 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

As has been posted, the first thing to notice is that there is no "whoosh" and locking sound as the S comes over the camera, in the main titles.

I was looking for the post that mentioned other audio differences too. Was it you?

I just wanted to check them...

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4 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Also, in 1978 :)

 

That sounds about right! I remember thinking it didn't feel like Star Wars at all and I was kinda bored because I was too much into Star Wars. 

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I saw 2001 on its first run - considering that films were released differently, then, and that they took their time to reach the 'burbs.

I remember being absolutely blown away by the visuals  - after all, this wasn't DOCTOR WHO, or THUNDERBIRDS - but not having a single clucking foo what it was on about.

Nothing's changed :lol:

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To me it was always about the next step in the evolution of the human species. From ape to man to man 2.0.

 

Your mileage may vary.

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Does anyone know if Superman II features similar audio differences in remix, with the original audio track?

I will buy the 4k and it has 2 options:

Atmos (5.1 core) and original stereo.

I prefer surround for this kind of films, but if they have changed again the sound FX like in the first movie, I will watch it with the stereo track.

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To my knowledge, Superman II was released in six channels, and no changes have been made in subsequent releases. But as with Superman The Movie, most theaters would have shown it in Stereo as the technology for surround wasn’t widespread.

 

Regarding changes in STM, did you check out the interview with Michael Thau here?

 

For where in the film the major FX happens, I think that you should keep your ears pointed during

  • The main titles
  • Destruction of Krypton
  • Super rescues
  • Superfeats

 

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