LOTR v.s. Potter

[gkgyver 1,645]

"Allegiance To Denethor" is actually one of the pleasant surprises for me. The only padding bits in the score that I can think of right now are the parts with Frodo and Sam between Minas Morgul and Shelob's Lair.

he's simply what we would call an "oetlul"

Does the word filter also work for foreign words?

[King Mark 3,631]

I honestly think that LotR isn't that great,no matter how I feel about Williams or Harry Potter.It's too static .When I listen to it on my ipod it feels like the world around me is a slow motion scene

K.M.

In all of RotK's almost 4 hour length, the complete score does have a few dull patches. Particularly, Allegiance to Denethor and the early parts of Anduril. I'm not saying it's bad music, just not really as exciting as the rest of the score.

But in my mind, not only is this completely understandable in a score of this length, but they're compensated by many other moments in the score making me air conduct every second.

Yeah,RotK is all right.I'd even like to sample the complete score in MP3 form.

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah,RotK is all right.I'd even like to sample the complete score in MP3 form.

Well,well.RotK complete IS very good....I reluctantly admit.

not falling asleep on it like FotR or TTT

[MSM 126]

I am a bit surprised to see what an impact my comment has had, but I find it disturbing to see how people read things that have never been said.

No, John Williams isn't the only composer I listen to, no I don't think he is infallible, yes I think there are scores by other composers that are better than Williams' scores, yes I do have a critical eye for JW's work, no I don't care if someone has TheOneRing.net bookmarked and no I am not offended.

All I wanted to say is: In my view HP is one of the best scores by Williams, and I can't think of a lot of scores that have more musical wit, melodic versatility, brilliant orchestration and fit their movies better than HP. Of course I like Howard Shores score for LotR, and it is effective in the film, but the music itself isn't really an outstanding effort. All what's in the score has been heard before in some form. I don't know which score is actually better, but in my view HP is the better. And of course it depends on how you define a JWFan (I didn't come up with that term, btw), but in my view someone who thinks Shores score is better than HP must like Shores music to a greater extent than Williams'. Let's say I define a JWFan as someone who likes Williams' HP better than Shore's LotR. Nobody has to agree with my definition of a JWFan, nobody has to like HP better than LotR, I am not trying to dictate some opinion to others. It's just as I see it, nothing more nothing less. But it's almost like you're some fascist if you say a JW's score it better than a score by another composer these days, and I actually don't like that.

And btw, calling each other names is what really is not very smart, IMO.

[Henry B 50]

And of course it depends on how you define a JWFan (I didn't come up with that term, btw), but in my view someone who thinks Shores score is better than HP must like Shores music to a greater extent than Williams'.

You must know us better than we know ourselves, then.

[Jacob 0]

I voted Lord of the Rings over Harry Potter, but I'd vote Star Wars over Lord of the Rings.

So no. Overall I don't like Shore's music to a greater extent than Williams'.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

And of course it depends on how you define a JWFan (I didn't come up with that term, btw), but in my view someone who thinks Shores score is better than HP must like Shores music to a greater extent than Williams'.

You must know us better than we know ourselves, then.

Yeah, that's a really...weird view.

In fact I said it before - I like LotR more than the 3 Potters, yet I like Williams music more by a million miles.

Doesn't that actually suggest your statement was complete cr@p? (all due respect of course)

[MSM 126]

And of course it depends on how you define a JWFan (I didn't come up with that term, btw), but in my view someone who thinks Shores score is better than HP must like Shores music to a greater extent than Williams'.

You must know us better than we know ourselves, then.

Yeah, that's a really...weird view.

In fact I said it before - I like LotR more than the 3 Potters, yet I like Williams music more by a million miles.

Doesn't that actually suggest your statement was complete cr@p? (all due respect of course)

If you say so.

[Red 75]

And of course it depends on how you define a JWFan (I didn't come up with that term, btw), but in my view someone who thinks Shores score is better than HP must like Shores music to a greater extent than Williams'.

This is comparing singular works (although part of a franchise) of two composers. I don't care how you define a JWFan, you can't get past simple logic. If someone said they liked LOTR over my favorite Williams score I would not call them less of a Williams fan because they might like his complete body of work more than Shore's.

It's just ridiculous.

[indy4 155]

And of course it depends on how you define a JWFan (I didn't come up with that term, btw), but in my view someone who thinks Shores score is better than HP must like Shores music to a greater extent than Williams'.

This is comparing singular works (although part of a franchise) of two composers. I don't care how you define a JWFan, you can't get past simple logic. If someone said they liked LOTR over my favorite Williams score I would not call them less of a Williams fan because they might like his complete body of work more than Shore's.

It's just ridiculous.

But MSM never asked if you agreed or not, he was just stating his opinion. I personally agree with you that you're no less of JW fan if you like LOTR more, but MSM made it quite clear that that is merely his opinion, not that it was a fact. He wasn't asking you to agree or disagree.

[Red 75]

Well I do disagree, and I was trying to explain how dumb it is.

Edit for clarification

[Richard Penna 3,683]

If we're just talking about his opinion then yes, it's a dumb one. Just no logic to it at all.

[John Crichton 4]

Yeah,RotK is all right.I'd even like to sample the complete score in MP3 form.

Well,well.RotK complete IS very good....I reluctantly admit.

not falling asleep on it like FotR or TTT

Yes, there are much fewer "dead spots", in fact practically none at all. Really remarkable considering how long the score is.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

Really? There are zero dead spots for me in Fellowship, and only a very few in Two Towers, whereas there were a lot to start with in RotK for me. Further listens are revealing more to me, but it feels a much longer and more drawn out experience.

[Salacius 7]

What I find disturbing,in a JW forum,is that a vote for LotR is a vote against some of Williams best music.

K.M.

I'm beginning to feel not at home here. I think this is an insult to JW on his own Fan forum. I also don't get it, LotR may be good, but anyone can hear the music is not as advanced, complex, entertaining, sophisticated and effective as is Williams'. Are people voting for LotR just to make it a close call?

I have to agree with you. As much as I like the LOTR trilogy I can't help but hear the advance writting of williams and be driven to the right conclusion that Williams' Harry Potter 'Trilogy' is far better musically that LOTR. Agreed there are some awesome choral moments but this is where the whole thing ends. The orchestral music as good as it is cannot compete with Willams' music.Period.

[John Crichton 4]

Really? There are zero dead spots for me in Fellowship, and only a very few in Two Towers, whereas there were a lot to start with in RotK for me. Further listens are revealing more to me, but it feels a much longer and more drawn out experience.

I get very bored with the Lothlorien sequence in FotR. I like the theme itself, but there's not a lot happening in most of those cues.

[Damo 0]

Interesting although i think this poll would of been slightly a bit biased on a John Williams Fan board considering this comparing the two different style of the two composer base on these two blockbuster movies between LOTR and the first three harry potter movies on which score is better. In way I would vote for Howard shore because who he his and he came up which such a great score for LOTR. However considering we know that John Williams is a better composer because of his style and his score for Harry Potter would make wonders in the movie, which is a great kick off for the start of the Harry Potter movie series.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Really? There are zero dead spots for me in Fellowship, and only a very few in Two Towers, whereas there were a lot to start with in RotK for me. Further listens are revealing more to me, but it feels a much longer and more drawn out experience.

I don't think there are any really DEAD spots in the trilogy, just less than perfect ones from time to time. The only pieces I find myself skipping regulary are the source cues from Plan 9.

[John Crichton 4]

Yeah, I skip over those too. The supposedly "Elvish" one especially gets on my nerves.

[MSM 126]

And of course it depends on how you define a JWFan (I didn't come up with that term, btw), but in my view someone who thinks Shores score is better than HP must like Shores music to a greater extent than Williams'.

This is comparing singular works (although part of a franchise) of two composers. I don't care how you define a JWFan, you can't get past simple logic. If someone said they liked LOTR over my favorite Williams score I would not call them less of a Williams fan because they might like his complete body of work more than Shore's.

It's just ridiculous.

But MSM never asked if you agreed or not, he was just stating his opinion. I personally agree with you that you're no less of JW fan if you like LOTR more, but MSM made it quite clear that that is merely his opinion, not that it was a fact. He wasn't asking you to agree or disagree.

Thanks

[Richard Penna 3,683]

What I find disturbing,in a JW forum,is that a vote for LotR is a vote against some of Williams best music.

K.M.

I'm beginning to feel not at home here. I think this is an insult to JW on his own Fan forum. I also don't get it, LotR may be good, but anyone can hear the music is not as advanced, complex, entertaining, sophisticated and effective as is Williams'. Are people voting for LotR just to make it a close call?

I have to agree with you. As much as I like the LOTR trilogy I can't help but hear the advance writting of williams and be driven to the right conclusion that Williams' Harry Potter 'Trilogy' is far better musically that LOTR. Agreed there are some awesome choral moments but this is where the whole thing ends. The orchestral music as good as it is cannot compete with Willams' music.Period.

Sorry but I can't agree anything you said that. It's typical fanboy talk.

'be driven to the right conclusion that Williams' Harry Potter 'Trilogy' is far better musically that LOTR'

it's just like someone on this board to say that - to state that it's 'far better musically' without any real reasoning.

[MSM 126]

What I find disturbing,in a JW forum,is that a vote for LotR is a vote against some of Williams best music.

K.M.

I'm beginning to feel not at home here. I think this is an insult to JW on his own Fan forum. I also don't get it, LotR may be good, but anyone can hear the music is not as advanced, complex, entertaining, sophisticated and effective as is Williams'. Are people voting for LotR just to make it a close call?

I have to agree with you. As much as I like the LOTR trilogy I can't help but hear the advance writting of williams and be driven to the right conclusion that Williams' Harry Potter 'Trilogy' is far better musically that LOTR. Agreed there are some awesome choral moments but this is where the whole thing ends. The orchestral music as good as it is cannot compete with Willams' music.Period.

Sorry but I can't agree anything you said that. It's typical fanboy talk.

'be driven to the right conclusion that Williams' Harry Potter 'Trilogy' is far better musically that LOTR'

it's just like someone on this board to say that - to state that it's 'far better musically' without any real reasoning.

It's an opinion, please get over it. I have explained my arguments before.

[gkgyver 1,645]

It's sometimes pretty frightening to see how predetermined some people here are about what a composer has to do or how he has to write in order to be considered a "worthy" composer.

There can be no second thought about whether a piece like "The Battle Of The Pelennor Fields" reaches the level of Williams' compositional complexity like in "Dueling The Basilisk". Of course it doesn't.

And yet, when it comes to impact, musical storytelling and unique identity, it easily rivals any Williams piece, and knocks the often pretty boring underscore of HP right out of its socks.

Also, I think that CoS, with the exception of Fawkes' theme and the finale, is one gigantic dead spot.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

There can be no second thought about whether a piece like "The Battle Of The Pelennor Fields" reaches the level of Williams' compositional complexity like in "Dueling The Basilisk". Of course it doesn't.

That may be one of the simpler cues in LotR - take Khazad Dum, it has some immensely complex orchestrations, definitely to Williams' standard, and it fits the scene like a glove.

Music doesn't have to be to Williams' 'standard' of orchestration to be good.

[Ollie 1,059]

Oh good lord this thing is still going?

[Richard Penna 3,683]

I'll stop now

[Henry B 50]

It's an opinion, please get over it. I have explained my arguments before.

It's not an opinion, it's an empirical statement that our own opinions are not what we think they are. It simply makes no logical sense.

[MSM 126]

It's an opinion, please get over it. I have explained my arguments before.

It's not an opinion, it's an empirical statement that our own opinions are not what we think they are. It simply makes no logical sense.

What is it you do not get? I think LotR is way out of HP's league > someone who prefers LotR over HP must really, really like Howard Shore's score > so much that I regard that person rather a Shore fan than a JW fan.

I don't have a problem with you not agreeing with me.

[King Mark 3,631]

Or maybe they are Anti Potter

[MSM 126]

Or maybe they are Anti Potter

That must be it

[indy4 155]

And of course it depends on how you define a JWFan (I didn't come up with that term, btw), but in my view someone who thinks Shores score is better than HP must like Shores music to a greater extent than Williams'.

This is comparing singular works (although part of a franchise) of two composers. I don't care how you define a JWFan, you can't get past simple logic. If someone said they liked LOTR over my favorite Williams score I would not call them less of a Williams fan because they might like his complete body of work more than Shore's.

It's just ridiculous.

But MSM never asked if you agreed or not, he was just stating his opinion. I personally agree with you that you're no less of JW fan if you like LOTR more, but MSM made it quite clear that that is merely his opinion, not that it was a fact. He wasn't asking you to agree or disagree.

Thanks

Anytime! I've been often bashed for stating an opinion, so I know what it's like.

It's sometimes pretty frightening to see how predetermined some people here are about what a composer has to do or how he has to write in order to be considered a "worthy" composer.

There can be no second thought about whether a piece like "The Battle Of The Pelennor Fields" reaches the level of Williams' compositional complexity like in "Dueling The Basilisk". Of course it doesn't.

And yet, when it comes to impact, musical storytelling and unique identity, it easily rivals any Williams piece, and knocks the often pretty boring underscore of HP right out of its socks.

Also, I think that CoS, with the exception of Fawkes' theme and the finale, is one gigantic dead spot.

"Chamber of Secrets" is also a great track.

indy4 - who doesn't think CoS is a gigantic dead spot, but knows that with the exception of the three tracks mentioned above, it can be slightly boring.

[King Mark 3,631]

There's only a few tracks in CoS that are "boring"..Meeting Tom Riddle and Cake for Crabbe and Doyle.And even that is not as boring as some of the cues in LotR

[John Crichton 4]

I like the whole Cakes for Crabbe and Doyle/Polyjuice Potion sequence. Meeting Tom Riddle is very flat, but the most boring ones are unreleased, like Hagrid Arrested, McGonnagal explaining the Chamber, and the Lucious Malfoy cues.

[indy4 155]

I found many parts of FotR CR to be boring, but I loved most of TTT CR, and I know from just watching the movies that I will love almost every second of ROTK CR!!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Music doesn't have to be to Williams' 'standard' of orchestration to be good.

That's what I was trying to convey with those words, yes.

[Red 75]

[gkgyver 1,645]

Oh come on, the thread title is "LOTR vs. Potter", what did you expect?

[Red 75]

I expected argument, not insanity.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Welcome to JWfan, good to have you here!

[Ollie 1,059]

I expected argument, not insanity.

You should know better.

[Red 75]

I . . . know.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Lord Of The Rings is severely overrated.

[King Mark 3,631]

Nothing to do with this thread

HPOotP DVD commercial uses Williams music

I guess they'd want him back

[Koray Savas 2,251]

OMG! You must have been watching the same channel as I. I just noticed that a few minutes ago, and was gonna post it.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Lord Of The Rings is severely overrated.

No, sir.

HPOotP DVD commercial uses Williams music

I guess they'd want him back

Thanks for proving the point about insanity.

[John Crichton 4]

Nothing to do with this thread

HPOotP DVD commercial uses Williams music

I guess they'd want him back

Or his is the only music worth using.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Oh there's the commercial again. Go JW!

[Salacius 7]

Nothing to do with this thread

HPOotP DVD commercial uses Williams music

I guess they'd want him back

yeah I noticed that too. Really goes to show how bad Hooper's and Doyle's music was. They could only use a tiny section of their music. It felt devoid of magic. In complete contrast to Williams' music for HP.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Which bit of Williams did they use?

[Salacius 7]

What I find disturbing,in a JW forum,is that a vote for LotR is a vote against some of Williams best music.

K.M.

I'm beginning to feel not at home here. I think this is an insult to JW on his own Fan forum. I also don't get it, LotR may be good, but anyone can hear the music is not as advanced, complex, entertaining, sophisticated and effective as is Williams'. Are people voting for LotR just to make it a close call?

I have to agree with you. As much as I like the LOTR trilogy I can't help but hear the advance writting of williams and be driven to the right conclusion that Williams' Harry Potter 'Trilogy' is far better musically that LOTR. Agreed there are some awesome choral moments but this is where the whole thing ends. The orchestral music as good as it is cannot compete with Willams' music.Period.

Sorry but I can't agree anything you said that. It's typical fanboy talk.

'be driven to the right conclusion that Williams' Harry Potter 'Trilogy' is far better musically that LOTR'

it's just like someone on this board to say that - to state that it's 'far better musically' without any real reasoning.

The proof is in the score, Superior melodic content, counterpoint, harmonic complexity, rythmical complexity. Do you need more proof?

If I was a total narrow minded fanboy I wouldn't have other awesome composers in my vinyl and CD collection. Please stop labeling anybody who defenses Williams' music 'a fanboy' OK? I truly believe what I said from a musician's point of view first and foremost.

I actually love the music for the LOTR trilogy. Especially the first film is completely captivating to me at least.

But as great as Howard Shore is he just doesn't compare to Williams' skills.