Film Score Monthly announces the Blue Box - Superman.

[MrScratch 294]

One of the inserts in the jewel case is bent at the spine. There was a time when I would have made a big stink about it, but as long as the CDs play fine I'm happy. I just put it in the box the other way so it isn't visible from the outside.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

But of course, the book can still be read even after it has fallen apart[...]

I do believe you're the first one to actually acknowledge this point. I was beginning to wonder if the words started disappearing BTTF-style as soon as the pages come loose.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Tomorrow I start listening to Superman III

(I'm taking my time with this set! Listening through each disc about 3 times in the car. So far I've been blown away. GREAT!)

[QMM 4]

I've just been slowly going through the soundtracks once each, to get them in. I'm almost done with III now. I was quite surprised by how good Thorne's stuff was. Main Titles-Streets of Metropolis really caught my ear the first time I heard it.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I was quite surprised by how good Thorne's stuff was.

Yes, although the opening title track from Superman II is a stinker! The transitions are so clunky and pedestrian. Superman II is a very passable score, once you get past that awful first track.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Yes, although the opening title track from Superman II is a stinker! The transitions are so clunky and pedestrian. Superman II is a very passable score, once you get past that awful first track.

I couldn't disagree more. I think Thorne's arrangement of the march is superior to both the renditions by Courage and Ottman. The now immaculate sound quality has drastically changed my opinion of it. I couldn't care less about the smaller ensemble any more. The performance is better, and that's all that matters. I never get tired of being amused by the "Ottman's arrangement was so powerful" comments which the ever so intelligent Superman Returns fanboys never want us to forget. We have to agree, don't we. It's the Superman Returns Code.

As for "Clunky and pedestrian" .... Thorne's transitions amongst the material are neither. I feel you are clearly attempting to degrade a very good adaptation of a classic piece of music simply because it isn't Williams' original equivalent, nothing more.

If that's what you want, once again we come back to Ottman. It's all over the place. That awful repeated bar of music towards the closure of the piece is miles worse then anything Thorne extended or changed in the march, and that's not even getting started. The principal trumpet statement? If it had been drowned out any further by the brass it would have been practically inaudible.

I've decided life is too short regarding the booklet matter and I'm going to go ahead and reconstruct it myself, then I'll just put it back in the hardcover when I'm done.

I find that I have been listening to Thorne and Courage's scores the most out of the set. As much as I adore Williams original and the great new and improved sound quality, I'd still pretty much heard it all already, unlike the other scores. Superman is one of my all-time favourite films and scores after all.

It will have its moment in the spotlight, don't you worry about that.

Now that I've heard them all in their entirety, and with great sound quality, here are my verdicts:

Superman: The Movie *****

Superman II ***1/2

Superman III ***1/2

Superman IV: The Quest for Peace ****

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

From the clips I heard on the FSM site, Superman II actually sounds better than I anticipated. Must have been badly mixed in the film.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

From the clips I heard on the FSM site, Superman II actually sounds better than I anticipated. Must have been badly mixed in the film.

It was badly mixed initially, on the 2001 DVD at least. I have various VHS editions also. I don't think its fair to say. I didn't see it theatrically upon its release.

The new 5.1 mix is anything but. That's because the sound was remixed from the same source FSM based their release on.

I've already done comparisons between the sound quality of the two. FSM still come out ahead, but that's obviously due to further restoration.

[artyjeffrey 20]

Well, already it's up on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPERMAN-THE-MUSIC-8-C...1QQcmdZViewItem

Not as many Rhinos as I had anticipated.... could it be that we're still holding on to our Rhinos after the Blue Box? How many of us are considering "releasing the Rhinos"?

[Joe Brausam 214]

I've been toying around with selling my Rhino set. It depends, I'm not really one to sell something for the money...but I'd be miffed if I sold it only to have the value jump 6 months later for no good reason.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'd never part with my Rhino set, even when I get this.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well, already it's up on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPERMAN-THE-MUSIC-8-C...1QQcmdZViewItem

Not as many Rhinos as I had anticipated.... could it be that we're still holding on to our Rhinos after the Blue Box? How many of us are considering "releasing the Rhinos"?

I'm too lazy to figure out how to sell my old stuff on ebay.

[Lurker 5]

I'm contemplating cancelling my order and waiting for that possible second edition (which might include a better book).

Responding to this post again because Lukas has addressed this very issue. There will be a second printing of 3,000 sets. It will have the exact same book, with the addition of "Second Printing" added somewhere. Regarding the book falling apart for some, it was a factory screw-up and additional books are being made for those that need a replacement. All of the details are at that link.

You can't ask for better service than this.

Neil

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Excellent indeed.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

its great when they treat customers like that

[Maglorfin 196]

Ditto. to Lukas.

[Ollie 1,059]

Did anyone honestly expect anything less from FSM?

Lukas and co always take care of their customers.

[Hitch 57]

I would expect nothing less from my cattle.

[MrScratch 294]

Yes, although the opening title track from Superman II is a stinker! The transitions are so clunky and pedestrian. Superman II is a very passable score, once you get past that awful first track.

I couldn't disagree more. I think Thorne's arrangement of the march is superior to both the renditions by Courage and Ottman. The now immaculate sound quality has drastically changed my opinion of it. I couldn't care less about the smaller ensemble any more. The performance is better, and that's all that matters.

I love Thornes Main Titles for Superman II as well, its the best Main Title performance outside of the original (not that theres a lot of competition). He also stated that the Main Title montage was complete when it was handed to him, hence some of the quick transitions and tempo.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Responding to this post again because Lukas has addressed this very issue. There will be a second printing of 3,000 sets. It will have the exact same book, with the addition of "Second Printing" added somewhere. Regarding the book falling apart for some, it was a factory screw-up and additional books are being made for those that need a replacement. All of the details are at that link.

You can't ask for better service than this.

Neil

That's excellent news.

[Maglorfin 196]

I absolutely adore Superman II and III, who would've thought they're such marvellous scores?!? Haven't yet made it to IV, as I'm going to enjoy the first three for some more time, then I'm on to IV, positively can't wait.

[brightmusic 0]

Hello! I just purchased The Blue Box and was wondering if anybody could tell me what the average wait time was for delivery?

The man at Screen Archives said the boxed set is flying off the shelf-I'm glad I bought it when I did!

[Maglorfin 196]

I think that better idea than to speculate here would be to simply e-mail SAE and ask them what the expected delivery time to your location is.

You could've also asked here ...

[Wycket 36]

Glad everyone is enjoying their music as I'm still waiting for mine. I ordered through Movie Music utilizing their $1 shipping. Starting to think I should of just ordered through SAE. Hopefully brightmusic will be able to find this topic.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I'm afraid it will fall apart now

With all books I read, I make a practice of opening them just barely enough to read them, and no more. My book is still near mint, and I've read most - if not all of it - by now, some parts more than once. Also, to the one who wants to scan them: Scanning a book like that will definitely make it fall to pieces. I do not recommend such a thing. Well, maybe for the guy whose book already fell apart. Nothing to lose, then.

And KM... how could you forget Lacy? She was one of the most memorable parts of that movie. Those legs were very impressionable on me when I was 13 or whatever I was when that movie came out.

BTW, I never sell my old sets. I've been known to go back and get original versions of scores when I already havd the expanded/remastered versions. This just adds to my Superman collection: The 2-LP set, the WB CD USA version, the WB CD Japanese version, the Varese re-recording, the Rhino set, and now this. Man, that's a lot of Superman scores.

Anybody getting rid of their Japanese Superman II/III CD cheap? I only had a CDR of that one.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

With all books I read, I make a practice of opening them just barely enough to read them, and no more. My book is still near mint, and I've read most - if not all of it - by now, some parts more than once.

That's exactly what I did. Didn't stop the middle pages from coming loose and eventually the other pages too from falling out all together.

I have stapled them all together now and just put the hardcover to one side. I have a replacement on its way, so its all good. I will quickly check it to make sure it is ok when it arrives and then just use my scrapbook edition for future reference.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Yes, although the opening title track from Superman II is a stinker! The transitions are so clunky and pedestrian. Superman II is a very passable score, once you get past that awful first track.

As for "Clunky and pedestrian" .... Thorne's transitions amongst the material are neither. I feel you are clearly attempting to degrade a very good adaptation of a classic piece of music simply because it isn't Williams' original equivalent, nothing more.

Allow me to explain then.

Aside from the clunky extra measures insterted seemingly at random between melodic statements (which suggest to me that Thorne needed another few seconds of music to fill the outrageously long opening titles of Superman 2, and couldn't think of a better way of doing so) there are plenty of other poor musical moments. Here are just a few:

0.56 The last note of the "Planet Krypton" melody is D (the tonic, "Do"). Thorne inexplicably chooses to have the horns finish on F-sharp, the chordal 3rd. This leaves the melody sounding incomplete, irritatingly so. The entire ending of the otherwise powerful opening is therefore compromised.

2.50 The major mode version of the Planet Krypton as an orchestral tutti in unison is just tacky-sounding. The otherwise powerful and eerie theme has now been rendered bland and uninteresting for no good reason.

3.50 The main theme at last! Hooray! Except that the new violin glissandi are hideous and annoying. Likewise the brass phrasing of the main theme is very poor.

5.12 That extra beat! It just doesn't work. Sounds like the Thorne fell asleep on the podeum for a second.

6.30 The "jaunty and fun" version of the Superman theme. It's fine here. However... There's a lovely gentle section of music at 6.50 that sets the listener up for something exciting, like a key change, or something new. Unfortunately at 7.05 the jaunty version of the Superman theme comes right on back again in the same key! It sounds tacky, boring, pedestrian, and ultimately unmusical. To repeat the same passage so soon after the original, in exactly the same key, it's unimaginative.

Those are just few of my quibbles with this version of the Superman opening titles. None of them have anything to do with the arrangement being "different" from the Williams original. Rather that they just don't work very well musically. I find them musically offensive.

NOW! To redress the balance I'd like to say how impressed I am with the score to Superman III. Finally I feel that I have heard some of the quality that Ken Thorne is clearly capable of. His original compositions in SIII are excellent. I only wish he'd had the same freedom of expression on SII.

[Henry B 50]

0.56 The last note of the "Planet Krypton" melody is D (the tonic, "Do"). Thorne inexplicably chooses to have the horns finish on F-sharp, the chordal 3rd. This leaves the melody sounding incomplete, irritatingly so. The entire ending of the otherwise powerful opening is therefore compromised.

2.50 The major mode version of the Planet Krypton as an orchestral tutti in unison is just tacky-sounding. The otherwise powerful and eerie theme has now been rendered bland and uninteresting for no good reason.

Disagreed! The horns end "Planet Krypton" on F#, but the tonic note is reinforced elsewhere (basses?). The unison rendition of "Planet Krypton" at 2:50 is one of my favorite moments in the score. It's a surprising, different take on the theme.

3.50 The main theme at last! Hooray! Except that the new violin glissandi are hideous and annoying. Likewise the brass phrasing of the main theme is very poor.

5.12 That extra beat! It just doesn't work. Sounds like the Thorne fell asleep on the podeum for a second.

6.30 The "jaunty and fun" version of the Superman theme. It's fine here. However... There's a lovely gentle section of music at 6.50 that sets the listener up for something exciting, like a key change, or something new. Unfortunately at 7.05 the jaunty version of the Superman theme comes right on back again in the same key! It sounds tacky, boring, pedestrian, and ultimately unmusical. To repeat the same passage so soon after the original, in exactly the same key, it's unimaginative.

Agreed! These decisions were no doubt made in the interest of conforming to the picture, but they are weak. On the plus side, the newly orchestrated section at 6:11 is pretty interesting sounding.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Allow me to explain then.

Aside from the clunky extra measures insterted seemingly at random between melodic statements (which suggest to me that Thorne needed another few seconds of music to fill the outrageously long opening titles of Superman 2, and couldn't think of a better way of doing so) there are plenty of other poor musical moments. Here are just a few:

0.56 The last note of the "Planet Krypton" melody is D (the tonic, "Do"). Thorne inexplicably chooses to have the horns finish on F-sharp, the chordal 3rd. This leaves the melody sounding incomplete, irritatingly so. The entire ending of the otherwise powerful opening is therefore compromised.

2.50 The major mode version of the Planet Krypton as an orchestral tutti in unison is just tacky-sounding. The otherwise powerful and eerie theme has now been rendered bland and uninteresting for no good reason.

3.50 The main theme at last! Hooray! Except that the new violin glissandi are hideous and annoying. Likewise the brass phrasing of the main theme is very poor.

5.12 That extra beat! It just doesn't work. Sounds like the Thorne fell asleep on the podeum for a second.

6.30 The "jaunty and fun" version of the Superman theme. It's fine here. However... There's a lovely gentle section of music at 6.50 that sets the listener up for something exciting, like a key change, or something new. Unfortunately at 7.05 the jaunty version of the Superman theme comes right on back again in the same key! It sounds tacky, boring, pedestrian, and ultimately unmusical. To repeat the same passage so soon after the original, in exactly the same key, it's unimaginative.

Those are just few of my quibbles with this version of the Superman opening titles. None of them have anything to do with the arrangement being "different" from the Williams original. Rather that they just don't work very well musically. I find them musically offensive.

Fair enough. I don't personally have a problem with it. I've played his rendition to death (go figure). The music fits the picture, the changes may be weak, but they are minor as far as the source material goes.

None of the quibbles you have mentioned regarding Thorne's arrangement are anywhere near as horrible and offensive as Ottman's. In fact you must like myself strongly dislike the score, because what he did with Williams' march and love theme are unforgivable as far as I am concerned. At least Thorne didn't disrespect the music in that sense. To hear the great march and love theme with thouse horrid chord changes is nothing more then shameful.

What do you think of Courage's rendition? I personally found it to be quite flimsy in areas. The principal trumpet statement especially. The trumpets used sound wrong, almost synth even, and that for me is the most important part of the march in terms of the make or break.

As for his score as a whole, the only cue I'm really going to have to work at warming too is the concert arrangement of Nuclear Man Theme. It sounds like an 80's midi track has started up and then all of a sudden the orchestra starts blasting away. Horrible synths, especially the electronic percussion. In fact I didn't really like most of the synths used in the score. I'm just going to have to learn to except them at the end of the day, because I'm really fond of the score otherwise.

Its use in Confrontation is mostly organic and is a fantastic piece of music. That I consider to be the superior performance of the theme.

[Henry B 50]

What do you think of Courage's rendition? I personally found it to be quite flimsy in areas. The principal trumpet statement especially. The trumpets used sound wrong, almost synth even, and that for me is the most important part of the march in terms of the make or break.

They're a little weak, yeah. Courage did the best he could with the limited orchestral resources at his disposal. Maybe "Main Title" was one of the cues recorded with the Symphony-Orchestra Graunke in Munich.

[artyjeffrey 20]

I'm contemplating cancelling my order and waiting for that possible second edition (which might include a better book).

Responding to this post again because Lukas has addressed this very issue. There will be a second printing of 3,000 sets. It will have the exact same book, with the addition of "Second Printing" added somewhere. Regarding the book falling apart for some, it was a factory screw-up and additional books are being made for those that need a replacement. All of the details are at that link.

You can't ask for better service than this.

Neil

Thanks for that, Neil. I haven't received my box yet, and I was getting a big knot in my gut over everyone's complaint. Kind of funny that, since he virtually quoted my post, it's true that they actually do peruse message boards!

This is the first time I've ordered from SAE, and now I feel a lot more confident.

[Delorean90 42]

2.50 The major mode version of the Planet Krypton as an orchestral tutti in unison is just tacky-sounding. The otherwise powerful and eerie theme has now been rendered bland and uninteresting for no good reason.

I'm not as enthusiastic about it as Henry, but it doesn't bug me quite as much as it does you.

3.50 The main theme at last! Hooray! Except that the new violin glissandi are hideous and annoying. Likewise the brass phrasing of the main theme is very poor.

Yeah, I agree with you on this one. Instead of having a shimmering background like in the original, it just sounds screechy here.

5.12 That extra beat! It just doesn't work. Sounds like the Thorne fell asleep on the podeum for a second.

I thought it was kind of cool. Probably could've used a bit of tightening, and making that second extended note a bit shorter.

6.30 The "jaunty and fun" version of the Superman theme. It's fine here. However... There's a lovely gentle section of music at 6.50 that sets the listener up for something exciting, like a key change, or something new. Unfortunately at 7.05 the jaunty version of the Superman theme comes right on back again in the same key! It sounds tacky, boring, pedestrian, and ultimately unmusical. To repeat the same passage so soon after the original, in exactly the same key, it's unimaginative.

I see what you're saying, although it didn't bother me so much. I do love that orchestration on the Love Theme's B section that immediately precedes the 6:30 section, though.

What do you think of Courage's rendition? I personally found it to be quite flimsy in areas. The principal trumpet statement especially. The trumpets used sound wrong, almost synth even, and that for me is the most important part of the march in terms of the make or break.

Sometimes I prefer the bigger sound of Courage, others I prefer the punch of Thorne's. It kind of depends on which part. I found there to be several strongs statements and variations on the march in TQFP.

As for his score as a whole, the only cue I'm really going to have to work at warming too is the concert arrangement of Nuclear Man Theme. It sounds like an 80's midi track has started up and then all of a sudden the orchestra starts blasting away. Horrible synths, especially the electronic percussion. In fact I didn't really like most of the synths used in the score. I'm just going to have to learn to except them at the end of the day, because I'm really fond of the score otherwise.

So you don't like the score to Hoosiers? That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that instead of getting one of Williams's awesome, robust, slam-bang concert finishes, we get a fade-out on a seemingly looped section. I say there needs to be a concert where Williams can conduct his themes from TQFP, including the new ending for the Nuclear Man Theme.

It's use in Confrontation is mostly organic and is a fantastic piece of music. That I consider to be the superior performance of the theme.

Oh, yeah. I love that whole track. There's some solid action music in this score. "Moon Fight" is another of my favorites, especially the anvil passage.

EDIT: Somehow I freakin' screwed up the quote function. Oh, well. The gist is there.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

None of the quibbles you have mentioned regarding Thorne's arrangement are anywhere near as horrible and offensive as Ottman's. In fact you must like myself strongly dislike the score, because what he did with Williams' march and love theme are unforgivable as far as I am concerned. At least Thorne didn't disrespect the music in that sense. To hear the great march and love theme with thouse horrid chord changes is nothing more then shameful.

What do you think of Courage's rendition? I personally found it to be quite flimsy in areas. The principal trumpet statement especially. The trumpets used sound wrong, almost synth even, and that for me is the most important part of the march in terms of the make or break.

I only heard the Ottman once (at the theatre) and I was too excited at seeing the new Superman film to be overly upset at the bastardisation of John's score. I'm sure if I heard it again it'll really start to bug me. As for the Courage score, I'll be done with Superman III (which I'm really enjoying!) today and start listening to Superman IV tomorrow. I'm very excited about this one (for obvious reasons!). I'll be glad to let you know what I think of his version of the Supes theme.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

To hear the great march and love theme with thouse horrid chord changes is nothing more then shameful.

I like the chord changes - I definitely don't consider them horrid.

[Delorean90 42]

If they were used in context, simply as variations, I would have no problem; they're good as variations. But having them be the harmonizations (particularly on the Love Theme) is...not good.

[Ollie 1,059]

Considering what Thorne had to do I have no problem with his arrangements.

In fact there are a few of his that I prefer over Williams own. I also love his arrangement of Williams' cue for Jimmy Olsen's rescue that Thorne uses for Lois climbing the Eiffel tower.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

So you don't like the score to Hoosiers?

Oh come on Delorean! Of course I do.

Yes Hoosiers is not to everybody's taste with the synths but nothing in that score comes off as flimsy like Superman IV. It was Goldsmith after all. Master of that skill.

Plus, most of it was samples, and genius ones at that.

"Who else would think to sample a basketball hitting a wooden floor and then use it as part of the percussion for a picture about basketball?"

.... Goldsmith!!!!

[Ollie 1,059]

Superman IV is a very good score, it deserved a much better film than it was composed for. Like Mike Matessino said, when listening to Superman IV you get the sense of what the film truly should have been had everything gone right.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Superman IV is a very good score, it deserved a much better film than it was composed for. Like Mike Matessino said, when listening to Superman IV you get the sense of what the film truly should have been had everything gone right.

Absolutely. The music truly does tell you a different kind of story.

[Henry B 50]

Which is still a ridiculous story.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Which is still a ridiculous story.

You're being too kind Henry. Everything about Superman IV (outside of the music) is abysmal. I don't feel it is even worthy enough of being labeled as ridiculous.

Superman III (a deeply flawed film) comes off as being anything but when compared to Superman IV. The same goes for Supergirl.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well if you really look at it any story involving a super strong man who's only disguise is to wear glasses and part his hair differently and fly around in blue tights with a red speedo and cape is rather silly.

Superman IV had the right heart, unfortunately it wasn't executed properly.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Well if you really look at it any story involving a super strong man who's only disguise is to wear glasses and part his hair differently and fly around in blue tights with a red speedo and cape is rather silly.

Suspension of disbelief and insulting the fan and the character itself are two completely different things.

[mahler3 478]

Mark Rosenthal's commentary on the movie is very enjoyable and the only way I can sit through the movie. He gives an interesting insight into what the film could / should have been and details the infamous Cannon cutbacks. He isn't remorseful of the daft plot ideas though!

[Ollie 1,059]

I have no problem with the story for Superman IV, it's just poorly executed.

I like the idea of Luthor creating a super villian and I like the idea of Superman taking a stand to protect the planet he calls home.

With a proper budget and a good script that storyline could have worked very well.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

If they were used in context, simply as variations, I would have no problem; they're good as variations. But having them be the harmonizations (particularly on the Love Theme) is...not good.

Ugh, yeah. Changing the Love Theme from I-II to I-V (if that's correct) was odd. It loses the flighty feel, which Williams often conveys through that progression.

[Ollie 1,059]

While I can't comment of the changing of notes and chords, perhaps it has more to do with Clark and Lois' relationship maturing.

[Henry B 50]

If they were used in context, simply as variations, I would have no problem; they're good as variations. But having them be the harmonizations (particularly on the Love Theme) is...not good.

Ugh, yeah. Changing the Love Theme from I-II to I-V (if that's correct) was odd. It loses the flighty feel, which Williams often conveys through that progression.

Yes, the I-V progression sounds too ordinary, too pop. The I-II progression adds some hesitancy and excitement to the melody. At least Ottman used I-II on the second phrase of the love theme and in "Little Secrets."

[QMM 4]

Listened to all the Superman scores once and I'm surprised that I liked them all! I'm also surprised by how interesting Courage made the March of the Villains with his different variations.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I like the idea of Luthor creating a super villian and I like the idea of Superman taking a stand to protect the planet he calls home.

Superman shouldn't be dealing with real-world problems. It makes the story come off as preachy.