Jump to content

Film Score Monthly announces the Blue Box - Superman.


TownerFan
 Share

Recommended Posts

I lived in the 70's

There was John Williams,and then this guy who did a pretty good theme for Star Trek ,or would score the knock off to popular Williams scored movies(King Solomons Mines,Supergirl) .At the time I thought i thought Goldsmith was pretty good,enough to buy some of his albums,but a distant second to Williams

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meanwhile,at FSM, some Goldsmith fundamentalists are outraged at the blue box liner notes suggesting Williams was the top composer in the late 70's

:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Comments like these bore me to tears. Fanboys in general bore me. I'm not bothered by whom was considered to be the acclaimed composer of any given timeline.

Star Wars was this, Jaws was that. Doesn't change the fact that I love Alien more then either of these given scores.

That being said; They are both fantastic efforts by Williams.

Alien is one of my favourite films, and even though a good deal of Goldsmith's music is not in the film, I've always enjoyed what was.

There are even mistakes in the liner notes for the Intrada release. The Landing wasn't used in the film for instance. Yes it was, but not the complete cue. I had to roll my eyes when I read that in the booklet. This is a consensus mistake amongst the Alien score community that has always bothered me. Not knocking the great release in any respect though.

The whole Goldsmith's Alien score was "butchered" in the film is a little over-exaggerated to be honest. Yes, most cues don't appear as written, but they are hardly butchered. They were simply changed to fit the picture Ridley Scott wanted to make. Butchered to me would be taking Goldsmith's score and cutting it into the film in such a disastrous fashion that the music only resembles that of a CD severely jumping.

Michael Thau's treatment of Williams' Superman score in the Donner Cut of Superman II for instance. Now that is "butchering".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got an email, mine shipped today (Saturday).

Me too, mine also shipped yesterday (Saturday), yaaay! :lol:;) I expect to receive it in 10-14 days, if all goes well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are even mistakes in the liner notes for the Intrada release. The Landing wasn't used in the film for instance. Yes it was, but not the complete cue. I had to roll my eyes when I read that in the booklet. This is a consensus mistake amongst the Alien score community that has always bothered me. Not knocking the great release in any respect though.

Actually, it does note that only certain parts of the cue were used. Underneath the track title, it shows "Used:" followed by the times in the track that were used in the film.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, it does note that only certain parts of the cue were used. Underneath the track title, it shows "Used:" followed by the times in the track that were used in the film.

You're right.

A strange analogy then, I guess. As in other areas it implies that it wasn't. Even Mike Matessino said in his radio interview on Celluloid Dreams that the cue wasn't used in the film, as many other people before him have also assumed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Comments like these bore me to tears. Fanboys in general bore me. I'm not bothered by whom was considered to be the acclaimed composer of any given timeline.

Star Wars was this, Jaws was that. Doesn't change the fact that I love Alien more then either of these given scores.

That being said; They are both fantastic efforts by Williams.

Alien is one of my favourite films, and even though a good deal of Goldsmith's music is not in the film, I've always enjoyed what was.

There are even mistakes in the liner notes for the Intrada release. The Landing wasn't used in the film for instance. Yes it was, but not the complete cue. I had to roll my eyes when I read that in the booklet. This is a consensus mistake amongst the Alien score community that has always bothered me. Not knocking the great release in any respect though.

The whole Goldsmith's Alien score was "butchered" in the film is a little over-exaggerated to be honest. Yes, most cues don't appear as written, but they are hardly butchered. They were simply changed to fit the picture Ridley Scott wanted to make. Butchered to me would be taking Goldsmith's score and cutting it into the film in such a disastrous fashion that the music only resembles that of a CD severely jumping.

Michael Thau's treatment of Williams' Superman score in the Donner Cut of Superman II for instance. Now that is "butchering".

I finally motivated myself to buy Vol. 2 of Amazing Stories from Intrada (I already had Vols. 1 and 3), and figured that while I was at it, I'd go ahead and buy this swank new version of Alien.

The Alien fan in me wishes that the various pieces that weren't written for the movie were also on these discs (I'm guessing that licensing issues made that impossible), but the Goldsmith fan in me is pretty pleased. I've probably seen Alien a good dozen times, and for whatever reason, the music is one element that has never really stood out for me. Isolated on CD, however, it is a terrific listening experience, absolutely one of the best Goldsmith scores I've heard (which, granted, is relatively few).

The Williams vs. Goldsmith element of fandom confuses me. As far as I'm concerned, you've got to be crazy to not love both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest macrea

In relative terms, Alien was pretty butchered. Williams' Star Wars was left pretty much alone (a few edits and one cue dropped), and then Goldsmith gets a big Fox sci-fi film and what happens? Then after that he does Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and scrapped early cues notwithstanding his score was left pretty much intact. So compared to those Alien does stick out as one that was heavily edited.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In relative terms, Alien was pretty butchered. Williams' Star Wars was left pretty much alone (a few edits and one cue dropped), and then Goldsmith gets a big Fox sci-fi film and what happens? Then after that he does Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and scrapped early cues notwithstanding his score was left pretty much intact. So compared to those Alien does stick out as one that was heavily edited.

I agree with what you are saying. I still think "butchered" is the wrong word to be using though.

I would have to go out of my way and say Horner's score to Aliens was also butchered otherwise because that was also heavily cut and pasted into the final film.

Although less cues were dropped full stop. I personally would only ever use the term butchered in reference to a score being completely misused and badly edited together in such a way that the actual film itself is also heavily ruined because of its presence. This was never the case with Alien as a picture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The original Goldsmith Sign Off ( last part of Out the Door) music is one of his best musical moments ever.Too bad it was dropped

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The original Goldsmith Sign Off ( last part of Out the Door) music is one of his best musical moments ever.Too bad it was dropped

Maybe one day, and its a big maybe, An alternate track will be produced where you can watch the entire completed film with Goldsmith's original score as intended.

I've heard Scott talk about it, so there are possibilities there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Comments like these bore me to tears. Fanboys in general bore me. I'm not bothered by whom was considered to be the acclaimed composer of any given timeline.

Star Wars was this, Jaws was that. Doesn't change the fact that I love Alien more then either of these given scores.

That being said; They are both fantastic efforts by Williams.

I love Alien too and i'm not going to get into the yawn-enducing Williams vs Goldsmith debate, however to call Jaws & Star Wars just efforts by Williams is rather patronising if you ask me? Maybe i'm reading too much into the comment though?

Indy4 - Swashbuckler is a very enjoyable score, good purchase and if you want to hear more of John Addison then I recommend the recent Chandos BBC Concert Orchestra CD = http://www.musicfromthemovies.co.uk/review.asp?ID=6837

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The old DVD release already had that.

Only Stefan can be so very informative. As if I didn't know that already. The score on both tracks wasn't in very good shape at all, and the alternate production soundtrack was just that, the sound before the final mix was completed.

A film is not complete if it is missing its dialogue and final effects track, is it? ;) ;)

I would like to see the "entire completed film" released with an alternate music track that features all completed dialogue and effects tracks, and Goldsmith's score newly mixed (from the Intrada source), sequenced and tracked into the picture so that for the first time you are able to view the film with the composer's score as originally intended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In relative terms, Alien was pretty butchered. Williams' Star Wars was left pretty much alone (a few edits and one cue dropped), and then Goldsmith gets a big Fox sci-fi film and what happens? Then after that he does Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and scrapped early cues notwithstanding his score was left pretty much intact. So compared to those Alien does stick out as one that was heavily edited.

I agree with what you are saying. I still think "butchered" is the wrong word to be using though.

I would have to go out of my way and say Horner's score to Aliens was also butchered otherwise because that was also heavily cut and pasted into the final film.

Although less cues were dropped full stop. I personally would only ever use the term butchered in reference to a score being completely misused and badly edited together in such a way that the actual film itself is also heavily ruined because of its presence. This was never the case with Alien as a picture.

I agree.

The fact is, a film score HAS to be subservient to the movie as a whole. (Musicals are a possible exception.) Music is tremendously important, of course, and far too often is taken for granted; but it's no more important than set design or costumes or, of course, the actors. Decisions made in the editorial process can and often do impact all of those areas, as well; I'm sure there isn't a film actor on the planet who hasn't at some point winced and said, "God, why didn't they use take C instead of take G?!?" Intricate details placed into film costumes go unseen by the audience on a routine basis; same goes for sets. But a film doesn't exist to show off costumes; costumes exist to ehance the story being told and the mood being established by the film.

Music just happens to be an element of filmmaking that is relatively easy and inexpensive to isolate and, therefore, to market. In that sense, it's a bit more visible than other aspects of the filmmaking process, so of course, people who are fans of that single aspect begin to feel that it is more important than the larger framework from which it sprang.

A film's music is not, has never been, and will never be more important than the film (when speaking as a general rule). It may occasionally be a greater artistic success than the film itself is, sometimes to the extent that the music becomes more important than the movie; but that is somewhat rare, and even in those cases it happens only after the fact, NEVER before.

In the case of Alien, it appears that many of the instances of Goldsmith's music being tampered with were the result of changes to the editing of the film itself. These would all have been changes designed to help the film communicate one idea or another more effectively. Therefore, the film is probably stronger as a result; in any case, it was a hit, and has been a significant cultural force for 30 years now, and it's hard to argue with that. People can and do; but you can always find some a-hole to stand in the rain and claim he's dry.

Listening to the new Alien CDs is a pleasure in and of itself, but it's also reminded me how much I like James Horner's Aliens. It is a perfect reflection of the movie; it adopts (and adapts) Goldsmith's mood and textures to a more action-oriented and less horror-oriented setting, and in roughly the same degree as Cameron shifted Scott's designs from one emotional focus to another. All of which neatly fits in with Ripley's refocusing from prey to hunter. Boy, those are two great movies.

By the way, try saying "horror-oriented" out loud five times fast. If successful, pat self on back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In relative terms, Alien was pretty butchered. Williams' Star Wars was left pretty much alone (a few edits and one cue dropped), and then Goldsmith gets a big Fox sci-fi film and what happens? Then after that he does Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and scrapped early cues notwithstanding his score was left pretty much intact. So compared to those Alien does stick out as one that was heavily edited.

I agree with what you are saying. I still think "butchered" is the wrong word to be using though.

I would have to go out of my way and say Horner's score to Aliens was also butchered otherwise because that was also heavily cut and pasted into the final film.

Although less cues were dropped full stop. I personally would only ever use the term butchered in reference to a score being completely misused and badly edited together in such a way that the actual film itself is also heavily ruined because of its presence. This was never the case with Alien as a picture.

I agree.

The fact is, a film score HAS to be subservient to the movie as a whole. (Musicals are a possible exception.) Music is tremendously important, of course, and far too often is taken for granted; but it's no more important than set design or costumes or, of course, the actors. Decisions made in the editorial process can and often do impact all of those areas, as well; I'm sure there isn't a film actor on the planet who hasn't at some point winced and said, "God, why didn't they use take C instead of take G?!?" Intricate details placed into film costumes go unseen by the audience on a routine basis; same goes for sets. But a film doesn't exist to show off costumes; costumes exist to ehance the story being told and the mood being established by the film.

Music just happens to be an element of filmmaking that is relatively easy and inexpensive to isolate and, therefore, to market. In that sense, it's a bit more visible than other aspects of the filmmaking process, so of course, people who are fans of that single aspect begin to feel that it is more important than the larger framework from which it sprang.

A film's music is not, has never been, and will never be more important than the film (when speaking as a general rule). It may occasionally be a greater artistic success than the film itself is, sometimes to the extent that the music becomes more important than the movie; but that is somewhat rare, and even in those cases it happens only after the fact, NEVER before.

In the case of Alien, it appears that many of the instances of Goldsmith's music being tampered with were the result of changes to the editing of the film itself. These would all have been changes designed to help the film communicate one idea or another more effectively. Therefore, the film is probably stronger as a result; in any case, it was a hit, and has been a significant cultural force for 30 years now, and it's hard to argue with that. People can and do; but you can always find some a-hole to stand in the rain and claim he's dry.

Listening to the new Alien CDs is a pleasure in and of itself, but it's also reminded me how much I like James Horner's Aliens. It is a perfect reflection of the movie; it adopts (and adapts) Goldsmith's mood and textures to a more action-oriented and less horror-oriented setting, and in roughly the same degree as Cameron shifted Scott's designs from one emotional focus to another. All of which neatly fits in with Ripley's refocusing from prey to hunter. Boy, those are two great movies.

By the way, try saying "horror-oriented" out loud five times fast. If successful, pat self on back.

Well said. In the case of Alien, I love the film as is and there'd be very little I'd change about it. With that said, I've yet to really sit down with the score and give it an isolated listen, so perhaps I'll change my mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

however to call Jaws & Star Wars just efforts by Williams is rather patronising if you ask me? Maybe i'm reading too much into the comment though?

Oh you most certainly are my friend. Most certainly.

I called them efforts, fantastic ones I might add, simply because I try to avoid using the same word/s twice ahead of each other wherever possible. ;) ;)

given scores

fantastic scores

Didn't sit with me. I hope you got the in-joke. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The old DVD release already had that.

Only Stefan can be so very informative. As if I didn't know that already. The score on both tracks wasn't in very good shape at all, and the alternate production soundtrack was just that, the sound before the final mix was completed.

A film is not complete if it is missing its dialogue and final effects track, is it? :blink:;)

I would like to see the "entire completed film" released with an alternate music track that features all completed dialogue and effects tracks, and Goldsmith's score newly mixed (from the Intrada source), sequenced and tracked into the picture so that for the first time you are able to view the film with the composer's score as originally intended.

That's exactly what I would love to see and hear. One can only dream for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will await patiently for MovieMusic.com to ship my order. No rush.

As long as you lot don't go flaunting your sets on this forum!

Come on, you'll pull you moderator powers and get it before everyone else.

Remember ROTK CR? :blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking he should ban everyone who gets it before him. Which will happen around the same time I get my set. So everybody is happy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will await patiently for MovieMusic.com to ship my order. No rush.

As long as you lot don't go flaunting your sets on this forum!

Oh I'll flaunt it if I get it before you....:blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've literally just got it a few minutes ago. I had to take a minute to boast to everyone at JWFan, but now I'm going to lock myself away for a few hours :P

By the way, the two disks in the central compartments of each jewel case were shaken loose in transit, but none of the cases were damaged and the CDs clipped right back into place unharmed.

Ok, forgive me if you don't here from me for a while :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ARRRGGH!!! This suspense is terrible!! I checked the mail today, and still nothing! Surely it'll be here any day now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bastard......I still gotta wait another 4 - 6 weeks!!!!!

Why, where did you order it from? :lol:

The longest Screen Archives ever took to deliver a parcel to me in the UK was just under 2 weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bastard......I still gotta wait another 4 - 6 weeks!!!!!

Why, where did you order it from? :lol:

The longest Screen Archives ever took to deliver a parcel to me in the UK was just under 2 weeks.

I ordered from Screen Archives, but am going by the e-mail that states I should allow 30 - 45 days........have never ordered from them before.......perhaps I should be a little more optimistic!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mine still says pending and I never got an order confirmation OR shipping confirmation, however my box arrived today! Unfortunately I can't pick it up for another two hours becuase the office in my residency hall is closed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never ordered from them before...and no sign of it shipping any time soon. Status still says "pending."

Yeah, mine still said pending this morning, but there it was at the post office this afternoon.

I've only dipped into a couple of the discs briefly, but they sound terrific, and the packaging is pretty excellent. Looks like this was a thoroughly satisfactory misuse of money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahhh...mine arrived today...just beautiful. Listening to disc 1 right know, unbelievable sound.

Sorry about my fragmented writting, but I'm just a little excited.

Jamesyboy - in Superman heaven.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.