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Film Score Monthly announces the Blue Box - Superman.


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I wouldn't be all that disgruntled (it's a gorgeous looking and more importantly SOUNDING set) even if they WEREN'T replacing the books. The fact that they are, no questions asked, means that I'm FSMs new biggest fan. Very classy response on their part.

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Since I bought the Blue Box last year, with my luck they are bound to release some kind of Superman 40th Anniversary Edition soon. Just to vex me personally.  

There! Are! Four! Lights!

I  saw that FSM already reissued a Limited 2nd Edition of 3,000 Copies of the boxset.   http://www1.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm/ID/8874/SUPERMAN-THE-MUSIC-1978-1988-2ND-EDITION/

Man, what a bust for them, as far as looking bad (since the bookbinders had to pay for the replacements). Even though most of us are reasonable people, there's just as many more who were just disgruntled about it and will probably never order from them again.

You're joking, right?

Indeed. FSM, both before and after their relationship with SAE, have consistantly been the nicent, most generous, and most receptive online CD seller I've dealt with. I feel bad about how apologetic they are some times about the smallest issues.

PS- I know I'm preaching to the converted.....but The Dome Opens alternate is positively mind-blowing. And listening to the score closely reminded me of how great the second half of the score is.....for some reason, with the Rhino set, I rarely got to CD 2. I didn't think I'd be interested in this release....but it is indeed a revelation (And I've only listened to the first three CDs so far).

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In their response to me they included direction to NOT send them the broken book, which probably means that everyone had been asking them if that's what they wanted. So, no, you can keep the broke one for reading, and the other one can now stay safe in the case.

OK, thanks for the explanation!

I have myself become a huge fan of FSM after their latest boxset :lol: and I don't hold the book issue against them in any way, since it wasn't even their fault and their reaction was/is all we could ever hope for, and more. So I have quite a few plans already for my future FSM orders, with the complete Alien being at the very top of the list. ROTFLMAO

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OK, thanks for the explanation!

I have myself become a huge fan of FSM after their latest boxset :lol: and I don't hold the book issue against them in any way, since it wasn't even their fault and their reaction was/is all we could ever hope for, and more. So I have quite a few plans already for my future FSM orders, with the complete Alien being at the very top of the list. ROTFLMAO

Uh you do know Intrada released Alien, not FSM. Or are you going to order it from SAE?

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Man, what a bust for them, as far as looking bad (since the bookbinders had to pay for the replacements). Even though most of us are reasonable people, there's just as many more who were just disgruntled about it and will probably never order from them again.

You're joking, right?

Nope. I'm not refering to us being disenchanted with them, but those judgemental first-time buyers. Of course, I'll order from them again.

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It is fantastic, isn't it?

Richly textured, extremely well crafted and with a real flair.

And Courage does a fantastic job marrying the old Superman themes, the new Williams themes and his own material into a seamless and cohesive whole.

John Ottman should buy this set.

And Doyle and Hooper to the list ROTFLMAO

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I listened to Superman IV for the first time today.

Wow.

Amazing how the most horrible movies can still have great scores.

Heartbeeps makes me think, "How can this be a terrible movie?!" When you listen to the music and read the liner notes, it makes it sound like it should be at least a 3-star family adventure--at least. It is indeed amazing.

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It's a shame Superman IV the film turned out so bad. I think it was Mike Mattesino who mentioned this should have been the crowning moment in Courage's career and I agree.

I love Ken Thorne's work but Superman IV is a very good score.

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Maybe not the album presentation, but I think Superman Returns fits right alongside the other sequels.
I'm the new guy here and I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I really enjoy Ottman's score. I think his new themes are terrific and moving and have a more sombre and wistful mood to them. I think there's only one part in the whole movie where I'm annoyed that he does a "Thorne", when Superman repeats "I hope this little incident hasn't put you off flying." and he reprises the Fortress of Solitude entrance. But I listen to the last six tracks all the time.

Someone had mentioned never listening to disk 2 on the Rhino set: I know what you mean. And it's not that I don't like the music. It's just that there's something about this score that makes me listen from start to, well, wherever I leave off. Turning Back the World is one of my faves, too.

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I may have said it before, but I quite like Ottman's score too. I was disappointed at how his career developed after the great Usual Suspects score - one of my favourites - but I feel he's lived up to expectations, of course with a few minor caveats here and there, but not more than Thorne or perhaps even Courage. I really don't get how people approve of Thorne but hate Ottman really. I think it must have something to do with the role of nostalgia and if you were around for Superman II and III I guess.

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I may have said it before, but I quite like Ottman's score too. I was disappointed at how his career developed after the great Usual Suspects score - one of my favourites - but I feel he's lived up to expectations, of course with a few minor caveats here and there, but not more than Thorne or perhaps even Courage. I really don't get how people approve of Thorne but hate Ottman really. I think it must have something to do with the role of nostalgia and if you were around for Superman II and III I guess.

No it has to do with a composer who actually treats Williams' music with the respect it deserves. At least Thorne actually used Williams sketches.

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No it has to do with a composer who actually treats Williams' music with the respect it deserves. At least Thorne actually used Williams sketches.

And he did a fine job. But now I have those pieces not once but FOUR TIMES. As pavlovian as my responses to the Superman themes are, it was more exciting when Ottman did something cool with a Williams theme (the farm theme in Memories made me squeal) rather than just hit the "play" button. I'm sure it's true that Ottman is not capable of writing anything near as complicated as Williams is. But I still enjoy it more than Superman II. (Ok, except for Mother's Advice and Superman Flies Off. Wow.)

Good thing I'm here now to say this. Because I'm sure nobody else has in the last two years. ;)

Oh, just noticed the banner. Nice April Fools. I might not be helping my Superman Returns argument, but I'm a Giacchino fan too. :(

Listening to: The Portal - Lost in Space (Bruce Broughton)

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Ottman ruined the love theme. Best part of the score was the Horner passage in the plane scene.

Thorne studied Williams' score, how it was used, how it was orchestrated, and why, and changed or embelished very much in the spirit of the melody. It doesn't sound like Williams' orechstration, nor does it sound like a dumbing down of the music in an attempt to change it.

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I may have said it before, but I quite like Ottman's score too. I was disappointed at how his career developed after the great Usual Suspects score - one of my favourites - but I feel he's lived up to expectations, of course with a few minor caveats here and there, but not more than Thorne or perhaps even Courage. I really don't get how people approve of Thorne but hate Ottman really. I think it must have something to do with the role of nostalgia and if you were around for Superman II and III I guess.

No it has to do with a composer who actually treats Williams' music with the respect it deserves. At least Thorne actually used Williams sketches.

That's because he took over a franchise from Williams.
Which is a no-no according to some here.

:lol:

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No it has to do with a composer who actually treats Williams' music with the respect it deserves. At least Thorne actually used Williams sketches.

I believe that's your reason, but I think many other people are biased in the ways I suggested.

And I can even go along with the point that he oversimplified Williams's harmonies, and that's a pity. But I like his original music more than Thorne's. No disrespect to Thorne, which I like very much as well. Also, one could argue (in a slightly more probable manner than arguing that Horner's plagiarism is a postmodern statement :lol:) that the simpler harmonies in Ottman fit in with the film functionally. And that makes it the film's problems, to a certain extent.

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This is what always bugs me... you people can praise Thorne and Courage for their works on the Superman films but you trash Ottman. I know Ottman's score isn't liked for the majority here...but still give the guy a break and a bit more respect. I thought he did a very good job on Superman Returns' score.

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Ottman's approach to adaptation was completely different. For better or for worse, Thorne and Courage were faithful to the Williams material and tone. Ottman was not.

Personally, that isn't my biggest gripe with the score. I just don't like Ottman's music. It's... bland. Sort of good here and there, I suppose.

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Yeah, people are stupid. They say Ottman didn't respect William's music, but I don't see how. Do people hate it because he made it his own rather than simply just reuse stuff over and over like Thorne did (to a degree).

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Yeah, people are stupid. They say Ottman didn't respect William's music, but I don't see how. Do people hate it because he made it his own rather than simply just reuse stuff over and over like Thorne did (to a degree).

Indeed.. personally I'm glad Ottman made it his own score while at the same time still using some of the Williams themes. I didn't care for the other Superman scores because they reused so much music from the original Superman score. I have also thought that Lex Luthor's Theme that Ottman came up with was a lot better than Williams. The way how Ottman made Luthor's theme just fit him more for the character. Williams version was just too campy in my opinion.

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I hate the way Ottman used Williams love theme .He felt it was too sappy for a modern film,yet turned it into something much more cringeworthy .And using the ostianato leading into nothing several times ...

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I hate the way Ottman used Williams love theme .He felt it was too sappy for a modern film,yet turned it into something much more cringeworthy .And using the ostianato leading into nothing several times ...

Well, I'll give you that. That was Ottman's biggest flaw in my opinion.

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I hate the way Ottman used Williams love theme .He felt it was too sappy for a modern film,yet turned it into something much more cringeworthy .And using the ostianato leading into nothing several times ...

errr I found nothing wrong with his use of the love theme. As far as the ostianato goes...when he used it, it always led up to the Superman theme... the one part of that I liked was he used it to lead up to Lex's theme then to Superman's theme for the cue "Saving The World".... you guys are just way too judgmental and harsh on Ottman's work. I'm sure if Williams had come up with the same thing you'd be praising it like crazy.

Just because Williams didn't score Superman Returns you all hate it and that's the cold hard fact.

Edit: It seems like I'm mostly the only one here who actually likes Ottman's score from beginning to end.

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I hate the way Ottman used Williams love theme .He felt it was too sappy for a modern film,yet turned it into something much more cringeworthy .And using the ostianato leading into nothing several times ...

I think he was very conscious of how he used the love theme. It wasn't supposed to be as resolved or as complex as Williams' version. It was more of an echo. The relationship wasn't the same and neither was the theme. It had a reflective quality to it. Something that had been lost.

Williams also used the ostianato to lead to nothing (if I'm understanding you correctly) when the rockets were launching in Superman. I don't think Williams' had the same "rule" as he did for the shark theme in Jaws (it always had to lead to the shark).

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I hate the way Ottman used Williams love theme .He felt it was too sappy for a modern film,yet turned it into something much more cringeworthy .And using the ostianato leading into nothing several times ...

I think he was very conscious of how he used the love theme. It wasn't supposed to be as resolved or as complex as Williams' version. It was more of an echo. The relationship wasn't the same and neither was the theme. It had a reflective quality to it. Something that had been lost.

It felt like he was embarassed to use it ,so he turned it into this formless melody

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the one part of that I liked was he used it to lead up to Lex's theme then to Superman's theme for the cue "Saving The World".... you guys are just way too judgmental and harsh on Ottman's work. I'm sure if Williams had come up with the same thing you'd be praising it like crazy.

Edit: It seems like I'm mostly the only one here who actually likes Ottman's score from beginning to end.

Gosh I love that part! And no, you're not.
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I like the score in its complete form. And with the unused finale cue.

The Main titles could have been longer. But the Williams credits should pass more slower (and since ottman was film editor, its his fault more or less)

I prefer Returns over SPIII anyday.

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Very true.

Superman IV is excellent.

Superman II is mostly a patchwork of re-recordings.

Superman III has some nice bits (like the main titles) and I should give it another listen.

But of the new scores, only Superman IV floored me right at the first go.

I haven't gotten to discs 7 and 8 yet. I'm looking forward to hearing Ron Jones' stuff.

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I still don't understand how Ottman ruined the love theme.

My favorite part of the entire score is the second half of How Could You Leave Us?

It's not nearly as ornate as most of Williams' full blown presentations of the theme. I've had it explained to me by people a lot smarter than me, musically. I get it. Mostly.

How Could You Leave Us: This is why I think Ottman is smart enough to have done it the Williams way (well, the Superman: the Movie way - Williams hardly ever played the same theme the same way twice back then) if he had wanted to. If you know the theme (and obviously we all do) he plays with it and teases and never QUITE plays it. It mirrors the "where is this going?" with Superman and the future Mrs. White. He waits for one big statement of the melody. And it is pretty much just the melody. In Superman it was supposed to make you giddy. In Superman Returns it was supposed to break your heart.

BTW, I recall hearing an interview where SINGER said the love theme was too old-fashioned.

On the Blue Box - Hey! My book fell apart! I'm one of you now! And thanks a lot Lukas and Michael. I will grumble every time I see the opening titles to Superman now. And for those unfortunate enough to watch it with me? I'll tell you about it.

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