Alien vs Predator. Chock FULL of spoilers!

[pixie_twinkle 44]

Well I just saw it today. Very entertaining. It was a sort of hybrid between Aliens, Predator 2, and Land of the Dead. Here's my question:

The aliens have clearly invaded Earth by the end of this film, although the final explosion may have (MAY have) killed them all. Yeah right. So anyway... In the original Alien movies the human race supposedly hasn't encountered the aliens before. Ripley and her crew have never seen anything like it in Alien, and then when she tries to tell the soldiers about the aliens in the sequel no one believes her. That series is meant to take place hundreds of years onto the future (it is implied), and so how come people don't know about the aliens by that point if they've already attacked a well-populated area of present-day Earth in AVPR?

Am I missing something?

James

[Lurker 5]

Easy solution is to think there was a massive cover up.

Nice to see that someone else enjoyed this movie. It's not great in any sense of the word. I doubt I'll re-visit it, but if your goal is to see a big dumb movie about aliens fighting I would recommend this one.

Neil

[ashinyobject 0]

It was more like a slasher film

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

I was going to see this movie last night, but I was too sick. I'm still all nasally.

But glad to hear this movie's a big muvvaphukka.

[pixie_twinkle 44]

It's certainly plenty of bang for your buck. Quite a few scenes are stomach churningly gruesome (literally in places!) Neil your answer seems to make sense. Every Earthbound AVP sequel they make from now on will make that theory less plausible though.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

Does that mean there is going to be an AVP Round 3?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Sigourney Weaver kills plenty of aliens through the saga.

Arnold Schwarzenegger killed one predator and it took him the whole movie.

The alien wins the Predator in these films.

Sigourney Weaver is way stronger than Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[pixie_twinkle 44]

Next film in the series:

SVAR: Sigourney Vs Arnie Requiem

[JoeinAR 1,759]

it was mindless, it was stupid, and yet it was fun. I think that the powerplant was nuclear, and they will simply say it went critical and exploded. who knows, but you gotta love government conspiracies.

[Ollie 859]

Am I missing something?

James

There was a flux in the space time continuum.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

Great scot!

[pixie_twinkle 44]

This is heavy!

Joey had a good point, too. Maybe I'm just over-analyzing the film. At the end of the day it was, as Joe said, a mindless pile of very entertaining silliness. It certainly is a far cry from the first two highly superior Alien films, but fits quite well alongside the Predators and the other Alien sequels. And if they make another one? Well, I'll be right there with my over-priced popcorn and large diet coke.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

That means you are a part of the problem! People like you who pay for these types of films are the reason why they make more.

Nah I'm joking, but I would never pay to see that crap. I wouldn't even see it after 1 week when I could see it for free.

[JoeinAR 1,759]

This is heavy!

Joey had a good point, too. Maybe I'm just over-analyzing the film. At the end of the day it was, as Joe said, a mindless pile of very entertaining silliness. It certainly is a far cry from the first two highly superior Alien films, but fits quite well alongside the Predators and the other Alien sequels. And if they make another one? Well, I'll be right there with my over-priced popcorn and large diet coke.

call me crazy, as if no one here has done that, but I want a third one, and I want it set in the old west, with cowboys, and indians, the calvary, and the female lead should be a madame. Set it in a desert mining town. Primitive but so many possibilities

there should be a pregnant queen, but she's at the bottom of the mine shaft that will be convienently blown up with dynomite at the end. And much of its set in the daylight, would love seeing an alien dispatched by an arrow, or a tomahawk. Lance Henrickson must be in it too.

[pixie_twinkle 44]

This is heavy!

Joey had a good point, too. Maybe I'm just over-analyzing the film. At the end of the day it was, as Joe said, a mindless pile of very entertaining silliness. It certainly is a far cry from the first two highly superior Alien films, but fits quite well alongside the Predators and the other Alien sequels. And if they make another one? Well, I'll be right there with my over-priced popcorn and large diet coke.

call me crazy, as if no one here has done that, but I want a third one, and I want it set in the old west, with cowboys, and indians, the calvary, and the female lead should be a madame. Set it in a mining town. Primitive but so many possibilities

ZZ Top should have a cameo appearance, and the Predator should dispatch one of the Aliens by flinging a Frisbee plate at it.

[Lurker 5]

Far out!

Neil

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

Hi ho silver.

[Ollie 859]

I wouldn't be suprised if eventually they get to the Dark Horse comic adaptions of Batman vs Predator and Superman vs Aliens.

Yeah I know different studios (Fox and Warners).

[pixie_twinkle 44]

Fox and Warners.

FVW

[Trent Hoyt 13]

How about Marvel vs Capcom?

[King Mark 2,924]

I for one enjoyed this movie

K.M.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

So anyone pick up the score?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

I did. Some really good cues. Sounds like an actual score in this day and age for a change. "Decimation Proclamation" and "Requiem Epilogue" are amazing tracks.

The movie was good, baby!

EDIT: I remember the Batman/Aliens comics from about ten years ago, those were awesome. The Superman/Predator ones, not so much.

[tpigeon 3]

I love it! The Star Wars prequels are torn to shreds on these Boards, and yet I sit here reading a 22-post long thread about Aliens Vs. Predator without a hint of negativity. Wow...

Ted

[Ollie 859]

That's because it appears only 4 people on this board have seen the film and 8 posts actually discuss the film.

We hold Star Wars to a much higher standard and while there are good films in the series, neither Alien nor Predator reached the box office and world wide appeal of Star Wars.

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Also, Aliens vs. Predator doesn't really aim to be high-class entertainment or something with some gravitas at the very least.

I'd say the Star Wars prequels did.

Apparently, AvP:R succeeded in its intent.

The prequels did not.

[tpigeon 3]

Star Wars is the mass phenomenon it is because of marketing. The movies were always just movies. And yet they are held to this mythic standard of excellence, when in fact their storytelling has always been simple.

Ted

[Ollie 859]

Simple but well done, at least with Star Wars and Empire.

But this is a thread about AVP so we should leave it to that film.

[tpigeon 3]

Well-done, but simple. It amazes me that more people aren't in uproar over films like Alien Vs. Predator considering that the Alien franchise boasts two of the finest science fiction films in American cinema.

Ted

[Mr. Breathmask 480]

Well, when I heard they were doing a second of these turdfests, I was damn near insulted.

But then... I just stopped caring. It's such schlock it's not even worth my effort.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

Always made sense for these two species to appear on screen together. The hunter and the "hard meat". The ultimate prey...

[pixie_twinkle 44]

Always made sense for these two species to appear on screen together. The hunter and the "hard meat". The ultimate prey...

It was clearly conceived as a "geekfest". It looks as though there won't be any more straight Alien or Predator films, so I'm quite happy to enjoy the AVP films for what they are. Popcorn films, nothing more. I had a lot of fun watching it though.

[Koray Savas 2,095]

How can you have fun watching it? I can handle funny-bad, or purposely outrageous for the pure sake of action and comedy (i.e. Shoot 'Em Up), but I think this movie is actually trying to be serious.

[King Mark 2,924]

I hope we see more of that hot chick who was that guys girlfriend.

*looks up IMDB*

Kristen Hager

[Unlucky Bastard 7,765]

How can you have fun watching it?

Because he liked it.

[AC1 3,565]

Easy solution is to think there was a massive cover up.

Nice to see that someone else enjoyed this movie. It's not great in any sense of the word. I doubt I'll re-visit it, but if your goal is to see a big dumb movie about aliens fighting I would recommend this one.

Neil

Wow, your initial reaction was far less positive ... or are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.

[Lurker 5]

No sarcasm at all. I had a good time at the movies watching this. It was short, didn't have a false sense of importance and lived up to its promise. I recommended it to Joe and I think he liked it, too. It's not something I feel the need to see again or even own, but if your goal is to be diverted for under ninety minutes (not counting previews) you could do a lot worse.

Neil

[pixie_twinkle 44]

but I think this movie is actually trying to be serious.

The film is called Alien Vs Predator! That in itself is enough to make it clear it's not going to be a particularly serious film. Once you accept that the film-makers can pretty much be as faux-serious as they want without compromising the absurdity of the film. AVP:R at no point feels serious, it's all a lot of schlocky fun. I enjoy films like "The Blob" for the same reason.

[tpigeon 3]

So as long as a filmmaker isn't trying to be serious, her/his film is exempt of serious critique? We should forgive it of any crimes against cinema, because, hey, it's all in good fun? I'm not sure I understand this argument. I'm as big a fan of conventionally "bad" movies, which are actually good (e.g., "Congo"), but I'm not sure we should loosen our judgments about a film if its makers know it's not that good. This attitude lets the films themselves off the hook, and presumes that the viewer's enjoyment is entirely derived from what s/he expects from a film. While it is impossible to be an objective viewer (who would want that anyway?), this approach perhaps too strong emphasizes the subjective.

Ted

[Elmo Lewis 6]

If a filmmaker wants you to believe his movie is good and that you should take it as seriously as any other, but the movie is bad, it's an insult to your intelligence.

If a filmmaker makes an equally bad movie admitting its limitations, free of any pretension, it's easier to connect with it and enjoy yourself. Tasteless fun? Maybe, but that doesn't make any less fun.

It's sort of like dissing a cartoonist because he's not painting a Cézanne.

[Morlock 9]

I haven't seen this movie, so I have no opinion on it specifically. But there is something to be said about overly critisizing films that have no ambitions. I mean, that doesn't make it good, but there's only so much one can say about a movie acknowledged to have very low prospects by it's makers. I mean, critisize them for aiming so low. But critisizing the film can be kinda pointless, as no one is saying any different.

[tpigeon 3]

If a filmmaker wants you to believe his movie is good and that you should take it as seriously as any other, but the movie is bad, it's an insult to your intelligence.

If a filmmaker makes an equally bad movie admitting its limitations, free of any pretension, it's easier to connect with it and enjoy yourself. Tasteless fun? Maybe, but that doesn't make any less fun.

It's sort of like dissing a cartoonist because he's not painting a Cézanne.

No, what I'm suggesting is nothing like dissing a cartoonist. That's exactly what I'm criticizing. Listen, I'm not saying all movies should strive for conventional greatness or be serious works of art. I believe that a film about anything, made in any style, can be artistic. I despise elitisim. Which is why I'm a proponent of leveling the playing field, if you will. Perhaps we shouldn't evaluate works all that differently, at least based on what we expect due to their genre, financial background, filmmaker reputation, etc. All of these things inevitably affect how we see and enjoy films, undoubtedly. But a strong emphasis on these things often clouds the films themselves, and soon enough we're enjoying certain movies because "heck, that's what we expected," and we're hating movies that we expect to live up to a particulare stylistic and narrative conventions of "serious" filmmaking.

All of the details I mentioned above undoubtedly have an impact on the film, but I'm not about to praise a movie like "Once" because of it's incessantly shaky camera work and rip down "The Bourne Ultimatum" for doing the same thing. Both scenarios may lead one to call the respective movies artistic, but we should first think about what the movie is doing, how it's affecting us, and then consider those secondary factors and how the film at hand honors or deviates from particular conventions of these various planes of filmmaking (like "Independent" or "Hollywood"). Ultimately, these labels are pretty useless. But the unfortunate thing is that they often constitute the grounds on which we see, interpret, and evaluate movies.

Ted

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I kinda see your point. But we'll have to agree to disagree - I don't think it's harmful to enjoy a non-artistic product that's made "just for the hell of it", as long as it doesn't try to fool you like many do, and is made with a certain élan. There's no harm done in not wondering what a movie is doing as long as it is is something you enjoy, even on a purely visceral, brain-shut-off level.

And I think there is some merit to brainless fun. Compare it to nostalgia, which is relatively easy to stir - formulaic, to certain extent: couple of old songs here, copycat some classic conflicts there, and you're done. But those tricks tend to be shoe-horned into the natural flow of the film and they expect you to believe they're organic to the plot. With brainless fun there's a certain humility, a self-awareness that's completely deprived of artistic intentions - and sometimes going over-the-top is just as difficult as staying under. It's not easy to provide your film with a tone, whatever it may be, that works with what you're doing.

-Tom, obviously not talking about AvP because he hasn't seen it, and even if he had he wouldn't be using words like "élan" or "certain humility".

[Mattris 314]

Some well-thought-out posts/discussions, everyone.

I saw AvP:R about a week ago and believe the filmmakers accomplished what they intended: a relatively short, special effects-filled, B-movie with the slaughtering of lots of (unnecessary, cookie cutter) characters.

These spin-off AVP movies simply don't have the atmosphere that their predecessors had. The filmmakers forwent the patient pacing and grit in favor of a comic book-style approach, and because of this, loose out on the much desired suspense and tension that the audience expects. Simply put, AVP feels far too conceived and is over before you feel like you might care about the (still-surviving) characters.

The brothers Strause made the film what they wanted, but I believe they only half-tried. In the end, the film will earn plenty in ticket sales, so what does that tell them...

I'll say AvP:R is better than the first AvP - but that's not saying much.

[Ollie 859]

After the disaster that was Alien 4 and the less than stellar Predator 2 I haven't bothered to watch any of the AvP films.